How much does genetics really matter for seeds? How much of it is a scam?

[conor c]

ok thx

No problem bud i wish it was so easy to tell who has got what and is it the correct line/right parents luckily theres many good threads on here and alot of people with great knowledge and experience on here as well to help sift through to the truth and what is just marketing or worse lies also strain history is something i care about myself also in the strains section on here there is a big skunk thread well worth a read sometime im sure it will interest you

 

[pegboy]

Had no idea how to phrase this question, so I hope I can make my question make a little more sense here.

Cannabis seeds aren't true to their parent plant, right? The only way to get a plant true to the parent is by cloning. Yes?

I watched this video of a guy going through all the seed companies selling fake "Bruce Banner" seeds

Which leads to me to the question, which strains are real and which aren't? How much difference does strain make, if they're not true to their seeds? If I'm just being sold some nonsense with a made-up name, does it even matter which seeds I buy?

Would appreciate it if someone could explain it or perhaps link to a guide or thread about this. I feel like the more I learn about the cannabis industry, the more it just seems like a massive scam. Like cannabis nutrients being super expensive for no reason.

The best way to find the real deal in my opinion is to research and find out who originally bread that particular strain. Many (old school strains are already extinct and around in name only) but many are still available. Finding the original breeder is by far your best bet. And yes genetics is paramount. Thats not to say you cant find fire weed with a stolen name, but if your looking for the original find the original breeder as a rule of thumb.

 

[conor c]

The best way to find the real deal in my opinion is to research and find out who originally bread that particular strain. Many (old school strains are already extinct and around in name only) but many are still available. Finding the original breeder is by far your best bet. And yes genetics is paramount. Thats not to say you cant find fire weed with a stolen name, but if your looking for the original find the original breeder as a rule of thumb.

I agree unless the breeder looses the line in which case chase the original where u can theres so many older ones that it pays to do this with and yes u need to do your research for sure bud

 

[HandyGringo]

you dont beleve in genetics?
or you dont understand that a bruce banner can be anything that has the same name parents?

I know I could have been more clear in my phrasing, but you're the only one who didn't understand what I meant. Do you think I don't believe in genetics? Give me a LITTLE credit

My question is more, how do we know which seeds sold are the real deal and which aren't? For instance, with Brune Banner as an example, he's the creator of the strain, he knows who he has given clones, so he knows that a majority of the seeds sold as "Bruce Banner" are fake seeds.

How many seeds are like this? As Mad Eye Moody would say"How do we sort out the liars?" I know we can't crucio the truth out of seedbanks, but I'm just trying to get an idea of, who sells real genetics, how do I know who sells real genetics, which genetics are still around and can be reliably sourced? Etc. Is 90% of the market made up names? 80%? 50%? 10%? I have no idea. I'm trying to get an idea

Loving all the info in this thread btw, seedfinder.eu is a great resource too.

 

[amneziaHaze]

well even if the original person gives a clone to somebody and that somebody makes a seed that seed is not the original anymore. its the original mixed with something that changes its genetic .soo only the first man.the man that invented the name is the original.
yea seedfinder has a nice family tree

 

[HandyGringo]

well even if the original person gives a clone to somebody and that somebody makes a seed that seed is not the original anymore. its the original mixed with something that changes its genetic .soo only the first man.the man that invented the name is the original.
yea seedfinder has a nice family tree

So he's overreacting a bit in that video I guess? If seeds are never true to the original, then any time you sell a seed, you're not selling the original. To what degree is genetics watered down through seeds? It just makes me confused about all the hyped up strains, you know? Skittles, cookie dough, OG, etc. How much of their original heritage is even left?

As someone stated earlier, the waters are murky, I guess most of my questions have no real answer other than guesses. It's just annoying it's not more tangible!

 

[pegboy]

So he's overreacting a bit in that video I guess? If seeds are never true to the original, then any time you sell a seed, you're not selling the original. To what degree is genetics watered down through seeds? It just makes me confused about all the hyped up strains, you know? Skittles, cookie dough, OG, etc. How much of their original heritage is even left?

As someone stated earlier, the waters are murky, I guess most of my questions have no real answer other than guesses. It's just annoying it's not more tangible!

So the genetics are the genetics no matter what. What the seeds will do is give you different genetic expressions from the same gene pool (same parents). Just like kids born to the same parents one might look just like the mother with brown hair and brown eyes and another child might be blonde and blue eyed. Both offspring from the same parents and the same gene pool. The only way to get the exact duplicate expression would be to grow clones. But by pheno hunting seeds you might have to go through several plants to find exactly what your looking for and its possible you might not. You might actually find something better. haha

 

[HandyGringo]

So the genetics are the genetics no matter what. What the seeds will do is give you different genetic expressions from the same gene pool (same parents). Just like kids born to the same parents one might look just like the mother with brown hair and brown eyes and another child might be blonde and blue eyed. Both offspring from the same parents and the same gene pool. The only way to get the exact duplicate expression would be to grow clones. But by pheno hunting seeds you might have to go through several plants to find exactly what your looking for and its possible you might not. You might actually find something better. haha

Thanks for elaborating! Do you know how much variance there is?

It just makes it hard to be objective about seeds. Like if someone tells me they just grew the best sour cream vanilla tangerine cookie glue diesel or whatever, and I go buy the same seed, I might have an entirely different genetic and experience.

 

[pegboy]

Thanks for elaborating! Do you know how much variance there is?

It just makes it hard to be objective about seeds. Like if someone tells me they just grew the best sour cream vanilla tangerine cookie glue diesel or whatever, and I go buy the same seed, I might have an entirely different genetic and experience.

F1 is first generation, F2 second generation F3 and so on. In general the further down the F(Finial) line the more stable the genetic outcome. Its a little more complicated than that but thats the gist of it.

EDIT: back in the day I had northern lights seeds and just about every one of those plants where almost identical. Rumor has it those where brought down around 8 generations.

 

[Trap Star]

You will have a different experience...
That's why S1 seed stock is so popular...

 

[Trap Star]

Even S1 seed stock has parental variations....
But your chance at getting close to the clone are better

 

[Trap Star]

There is a thread here ...where the guy is looking for an original blueberry in seed form....I told him that riot seeds has the blueberry but he can't see thru the genetic soup.

He still wants Dutch passion...
When riot has already done the selection for him

 

[conor c]

well even if the original person gives a clone to somebody and that somebody makes a seed that seed is not the original anymore. its the original mixed with something that changes its genetic .soo only the first man.the man that invented the name is the original.
yea seedfinder has a nice family tree

That's true even giving someone a cut if the genetics have high pheno plasticity the way and where it is kept can definitely change it a bit over time

 

[conor c]

F1 is first generation, F2 second generation F3 and so on. In general the further down the F(Finial) line the more stable the genetic outcome. Its a little more complicated than that but thats the gist of it.

EDIT: back in the day I had northern lights seeds and just about every one of those plants where almost identical. Rumor has it those where brought down around 8 generations.

The more inbred the more stable it should be but the trade off is loss in vigour and yield assuming the works been done right of course i think we get this less so with landrace as less genes get lost along the way because of the numbers of plants involved each season

 

[Trap Star]

You have to really be in tune with seed producers
To know who has what breeding material
As they each put out seeds...you are comparing genetic outcomes.
Once you are in the loop...you know who has the fire

It's like 808 genetics....
They post crippy as their flagship
I jumped on Green monster because it was
Crippy x Gas head
Gas head = crippy x Green Portal
Green Portal = crippy x crippy kush
With that much back crossing I'm bound to find a full crippy leaner.

 

[pegboy]

Recently I've been liking seeds with more genetic variation. Right or wrong I think theres a better chance at finding a beast in the mix. I kind of like the search. I guess it all depends on what you're after.

 

[conor c]

Recently I've been liking seeds with more genetic variation. Right or wrong I think theres a better chance at finding a beast in the mix. I kind of like the search. I guess it all depends on what you're after.

If that's the case and you like alot try some of mr kc brains stuff at some point if you ain't already bud cos you get alot of variation and vigour with his stuff and you can find some pretty nice plants in his gear bonus points is his regs gotta be the most reasonably priced beans around

 

[Trap Star]

The entire seed market is needed to find clone onlys
Once you find a clone you mother it or lose it
And the cycle starts again

@conor c
KC has older strains that are from reg seed stock...
Random males from within the line.
It would take 40+ seeds to hunt anything close to the original clone only or breeders cuts

 

[conor c]

The entire seed market is needed to find clone onlys
Once you find a clone you mother it or lose it
And the cycle starts again

@conor c
KC has older strains that are from reg seed stock...
Random males from within the line.
It would take 40+ seeds to hunt anything close to the original clone only or breeders cuts

I dont think he uses random males he been doing it a while mate its just he grows with much larger numbers than most hence why his stuff tends to be vigorous and more varied as for the clone only thing its luck you could pop 2 seeds find a killer pheno then pop 200 more and still find nothing on the same level cos as much as the eye for selection is important so is luck imo this is why i love seeds it is like a lottery

 

[Unga Bunga]

Has there ever been any real testing and breakdown of genomes and alleles in cannabis ?