Is far red dead

cobshopgrow

cobshopgrow

Well-Known Member
targeting mostly the UV8 receptor (280-315nm).
www.nature.com

UV-B antagonises shade avoidance and increases levels of the flavonoid quercetin in coriander (Coriandrum sativum) - Scientific Reports

Despite controlling a diverse array of regulatory processes in plants, UV-B wavelengths (280–315 nm) are attenuated by common greenhouse materials such as glass and polycarbonate and are therefore depleted in many commercial growing environments. In this study, we analysed the architecture...
www.nature.com www.nature.com


still a good read and pictures regarding FR.
as in every study, just a few aspects have been taken in to account, but its at least a proper study.
 
H

HippieDudeRon

Well-Known Member
Comparator said:
I am not he, but it's nice to know who the @mommy@daddy is around here. SMH! The world has certainly changed. Why back n my day, lol!
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Can't lie your way out of this one Hybridway, Hybridway2. You haven't even moved...same old shitting grow room. Same old shittty lies. Same old shitty Amare advertising in every post. Same old shitty Marc ...
@sunni @rollitup @potroast
 
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Comparator

Comparator

Well-Known Member
Kassiopeija said:
Yeah well in way it's because photon output (fixture efficacy) beats spectrum. The speed of the "light-reaction" is 100 times faster than the biochemical processes to store the energy into NADPH ATP. So even a shitty slow spec will grow "ok" if it doesn't break other plant responses. The scientist can show some blurple specs are actually -situationally- better than whites but then there's customer demands and a necessity to see leaves in green.

So the horti manufacturers use whatever good diodes are available to them in their umol-chase. With most of the stated numbers are actually exaggerated.
The 730 is outside of PAR 400-700nm so doesn't even weigh into PPFD-plots done by quantum meters that cutoff at 692nm.

Yes, you are right in the future with better diodes I believe it will change more into more red, and also an extended blue, and broader UV...
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Yeah lol 3 generations got brainwashed by McCree and his famous curve! ;)
You see how tough it can be to go against the accepted norm.
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As nice as that spd is. I would not grow woth it all on like that. Accessible, sure thing. But not fixed.
 
Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
Comparator said:
As nice as that spd is. I would not grow woth it all on like that. Accessible, sure thing. But not fixed.
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It's not even available for the end-consumer - I've mailed the manufacturer to get this information. These are multi-colored COBs designed to give specific opaque items a certain appearance, so colour composition is more important than output.
For plants, they'd have to increase 660nm to counter the FR, and maybe tune that region also down somewhat. Though I like how they went for 700 & 750nm instead of 730. This will target a few other chlorophylls and influence trapping time, photoprotective effect and deep-effect. And it shuns a bit the 730nm max absorption of phytochrome.
 
Comparator

Comparator

Well-Known Member
Kassiopeija said:
It's not even available for the end-consumer - I've mailed the manufacturer to get this information. These are multi-colored COBs designed to give specific opaque items a certain appearance, so colour composition is more important than output.
For plants, they'd have to increase 660nm to counter the FR, and maybe tune that region also down somewhat. Though I like how they went for 700 & 750nm instead of 730. This will target a few other chlorophylls and influence trapping time, photoprotective effect and deep-effect.
"And it shuns a bit the 730nm max absorption of phytochrome".
It's nice, are you getting it made? Yes 730 will be more responsive yet its all good to have to 800 If possible.
Many fail to realize the photosynthetic abilities from 400-440nm. It's a two for one replacing UVA/B.
That's cool. I saw one recently w/ multiple die Chips under opaque lenses that blended so nice & was tunable. We don't even want or need the high ass intensities some are accustomed to when using a ballanced(proper amount in regards to whats there), full spectrum(connected) tuned for our plants(weighted) spd's. Not needed. Targeted Spectrums get 1000ppfd responses from standard lights at 750ppfd w/ more vigor/health,yeild,quality imho.
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can you tell us more?
 
Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
No, I'm not getting them. Their hardware sheets stated low output (102lm/W) and also the spectrum did differ. The others were just 660+730 builds. I got wary then.
What I totally dislike with any monchromatic ammends is the bad mixing. But I'm doing that from several angles using different fixtures, and at certain spots even a little 5.2W royalblue can totally dominate the leaf colour, where the above lighting is blocked. The whole tent is a chaotic display of everchanging false colour impressions, merely the Orca-foil walls are colourtrue.

Is this now bad?

Or even good - considering more light (better penetration etc). Does the sheer ability to have more sugar at that place generated supercede any negativ effect from spectrum chaos?
 
Comparator

Comparator

Well-Known Member
Kassiopeija said:
No, I'm not getting them. Their hardware sheets stated low output (102lm/W) and also the spectrum did differ. The others were just 660+730 builds. I got wary then.
What I totally dislike with any monchromatic ammends is the bad mixing. But I'm doing that from several angles using different fixtures, and at certain spots even a little 5.2W royalblue can totally dominate the leaf colour, where the above lighting is blocked. The whole tent is a chaotic display of everchanging false colour impressions, merely the Orca-foil walls are colourtrue.

Is this now bad?

Or even good - considering more light (better penetration etc). Does the sheer ability to have more sugar at that place generated supercede any negativ effect from spectrum chaos?
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I couldn't say wheather bad but definitely not optimal. I know that growers who sporadically switch lighting spectrums & technologies throughout the day usually have terrible, freaked out plants. We know single monochromatic colors do not grow well. Will the plant take the white from there & the red from here to unify inside the plant for a positive effect? Not sure. I do know I can grow one plant Under two different technologies at once like led on half + cmh on the other & each side will be totally different. My cob/mono array lights have 5w diodes running at 2.5-3w, even wrapped right around the white cob, they still can send a solid colored circle down after the optimal blending distance. I don't think they're providing any sort of intra-canopy benefit tho. We get allot more intra-canopy with distance, well blended, diffused light rather then the shadow light we get when growing w/ raw diodes that have a super close pitch at close range. Personally I reali on my spd, plant training & de-fo for intra-canopy. Always using side-light when pheasable too.
Don't be discouraged with a 102lm/w spec. That is awesome with that spd. In several sbs's growers destroy 200+ lm/w bar lights w/ a horticulturally tuned 115-120lm/w bar light at .5 umol/j less & less watts used. So don't go by lm/w. Totally useless in horticulture lighting bro. I know you know this but dunno if you realize the extreme. A 100lm/w can easily beat a 200lm/w light of the sane build.
A 6 wavelength mini-led in a diffused lens hitting down below will definitely help though.
 
Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
Comparator said:
I couldn't say wheather bad but definitely not optimal. I know that growers who sporadically switch lighting spectrums & technologies throughout the day usually have terrible, freaked out plants. We know single monochromatic colors do not grow well. Will the plant take the white from there & the red from here to unify inside the plant for a positive effect? Not sure. I do know I can grow one plant Under two different technologies at once like led on half + cmh on the other & each side will be totally different
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the photoreceptors shape the plant locally, mostly from the sensing of the leaves.
There could be internal turmoil, I'm having such freaks currently.

Comparator said:
I don't think they're providing any sort of intra-canopy benefit tho. We get allot more intra-canopy with distance, well blended, diffused light rather then the shadow light we get when growing w/ raw diodes that have a super close pitch at close range. Personally I reali on my spd, plant training & de-fo for intra-canopy. Always using side-light when pheasable too.
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I'm refering to the farred's unique characteristic regarding leaves to be deflected by 40%, transmitted by 40-50% and absorbed only by 10-20%%. So a large portion of it gets diffused by the leaves, and the other large portion hits the next leaf. So measurements in the deep revealed a green-farred enriched spectrum, with farred actually dominating the spectrum in terms of an area under the curve.
Screenshot_20200808-173639~2.png
Screenshot_20200513-090135~2.png
Leaf-Transmittance-1024x446.png
 
Comparator

Comparator

Well-Known Member
Kassiopeija said:
the photoreceptors shape the plant locally, mostly from the sensing of the leaves.
There could be internal turmoil, I'm having such freaks currently.


I'm refering to the farred's unique characteristic regarding leaves to be deflected by 40%, transmitted by 40-50% and absorbed only by 10-20%%. So a large portion of it gets diffused by the leaves, and the other large portion hits the next leaf. So measurements in the deep revealed a green-farred enriched spectrum, with farred actually dominating the spectrum in terms of an area under the curve.
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It's a double edge sword though. That's why a specific ratio of greens & far red needs to be implemented to the spd based on what's there. Green + far red also have the ability to drive pathanagens and to much green negates the positive effects of the Blues/violets & others. That's why I'm against the overly white dominant spds. Or high far red not balanced or controllable.
 
Comparator

Comparator

Well-Known Member
Far-Red or Far from horticultural since 1957 baby! It gets better too, they're just not telling you how yet. Upgrade,upgrade,upgrade, to the new Innovative Far-Red board,strip,bar. Lol!
 
Comparator

Comparator

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
Pointless necro-bump much?
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Necro-Bumping! Haha,that's awesome.. yeah guess I'm bored n need to go get shit done. Been Necro-Bumpin Fer days.. SMH,LOL!
That's what I thought 15 yrs ago. Why are we even discussing this. Lol!
 
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Comparator

Comparator

Well-Known Member
Kassiopeija said:
the photoreceptors shape the plant locally, mostly from the sensing of the leaves.
There could be internal turmoil, I'm having such freaks currently.


I'm refering to the farred's unique characteristic regarding leaves to be deflected by 40%, transmitted by 40-50% and absorbed only by 10-20%%. So a large portion of it gets diffused by the leaves, and the other large portion hits the next leaf. So measurements in the deep revealed a green-farred enriched spectrum, with farred actually dominating the spectrum in terms of an area under the curve.
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I agree, green and far red do carry other wavelengths lower. Far Red was only dead when white came out then it had to happen.
 
SnidleyBluntash

SnidleyBluntash

Well-Known Member
Let’s talk about when to use far red and red red in a grow. For the ‘bloom cycle’. Or 24/7 or just a little supplement what about only far red and red red at the end of a grow. What do the studies show ?

go!
 
T

TheWholeTruth

Well-Known Member
2cent said:
Seems all posts on far red initiators are latest posts 2020 on google
non recently so does that mean the far red has been scrapped as an idea for Emerson ?
if it took off good you would see it allover by now surely not just hidden deep in the web and for sale on a few pages

I’d expect by now to see led sales saying don’t forget your far red strips with your order etc

can’t even find solid advice on using them with Correct tested times etc
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You normally get far red and ir built into alot of led lights as standard now
 
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