Very poor growth on 3 of 4 plants.

agare$969

agare$969

Member
Ok so I posted on newbie central as this is my first grow. Using coco coir 70-30 perlite mix and I have a few plants that seemed to have some serious nitrogen toxicity. Purple stems. Super dark foliage on the one and burnt tips on leaves. Lots of clawing and curling up. Anyway I'm not sure if these are photo periods or autos as I found them in a cut of Texas butter I got from the dispo and decided fuck it lemme take a whack at it and now I'm in love and there's no stopping me. I started off all wrong. Using potting soil from another potted plant to start the seedlings after germination. Transplanted all 4 into coco and mg mix. Pretty sure the mg caused some nutrient burn but I've gotten mixed messages. I've been told that it's a deficiency, I've been told nitro toxicity. I always test my run off as well and nitro is through the roof phosphorus is on Point as well as pH. Started watering again multiple times a day as to flush any excess nutririents from coco then added cal mag and dyna gro grow 2/3 tsp each to a gallon of purified water. Any suggestions I could get to get these little guys going would be greatly appreciated. I started them all at the same time so Im gonna attribute the stunted growth from the time released nutes In mg.
 

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nom de plume420

Active Member
You should try to measure the run off to see if it's in the right range. I hope you have a meter. You can check the Ph with a variety of different mechanisms but PPM or EC you will need a meter for. If your feed water is radically different than the run off you should flush them out until the run off is somewhat the same as the readings of your feed solution. If there isn't some radical difference then you might be dealing with HPLVD which I think you would need a lab test to determine. Hopefully it's just a minor feeding/Ph issue and can be fixed with proper leeching. If you do flush them out give them a weak nutrient solution afterwards (about 1/3 to 1/2 of normal) just to make sure to don't flush all of the nutrients out of them.
 
agare$969

agare$969

Member
nom de plume420 said:
You should try to measure the run off to see if it's in the right range. I hope you have a meter. You can check the Ph with a variety of different mechanisms but PPM or EC you will need a meter for. If your feed water is radically different than the run off you should flush them out until the run off is somewhat the same as the readings of your feed solution. If there isn't some radical difference then you might be dealing with HPLVD which I think you would need a lab test to determine. Hopefully it's just a minor feeding/Ph issue and can be fixed with proper leeching. If you do flush them out give them a weak nutrient solution afterwards (about 1/3 to 1/2 of normal) just to make sure to don't flush all of the nutrients out of them.
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Ok cool. Do you think they'll make it to flower at least? The big girl doesn't look awful but I was thinking it was nitrogen burn. Runoff and feed water are pretty consistent. I was honestly saving my run off so I could use it to feed if possible but I've been told not to by a few folks. The smallest one stopped growing basically after I transplanted it a few weeks back. Shocked the roots and she's still alive somehow. This has been a crazy learning experience but I've found that I really love growing plants. Not just cannabis. But cannabis is definitely the most rewarding. I water multiple times a day feeding two of the 3 waterings keeping the coco saturated. I've also been told to let the coco dry out before watering again but I tried that and they clawed up real bad and the leaves got super brittle.
 
MickFoster

MickFoster

Well-Known Member
agare$969 said:
I water multiple times a day feeding two of the 3 waterings keeping the coco saturated. I've also been told to let the coco dry out before watering again but I tried that and they clawed up real bad and the leaves got super brittle.
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Wrong and wrong.
Feeding multiple times a day is fine...........but never use plain water........it's always feeding time.
Never, ever let the coco dry out.........whoever told you that is full of shit.
 
agare$969

agare$969

Member
hotrodharley said:
Coco is like a frigging milk cow. Twice a day everyday and you ain’t going anywhere far from the house.
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I have zero prob
PURPLEB3RRYKUSH said:
Dont leave runoff in the trays either mossie breeding habitat
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Any reason why they all look so different when they're being fed the same? Im still not sure whether they're autos or not. I do clean the runoff every night and wipe down those trays. I water 3 times daily and on the darker plant have been backing off the nitrogen bc she's super dark and I feel like she has some nitrogen toxicity possibly. My smallest two have had issues from about 2 weeks ago. My big girl won't stop growing and prob grew about an inch overnight.
 
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Roadblock007

Well-Known Member
Nothing wrong with coco its a great medium, its probably the balance of things in your room that is out of wack.

VPD is very important, probably the most important single aspect of it all, if this is out the plant does not transpire as it should, then shit starts happening.
Irrigation volume and cycle. read some stuff on crop steering to get your head around irrigation.
Nutrient strength, no point running full nutrient if the plant is not transpiring at maximum.

If these are not dialled in for your particular grow space expect a chain reaction of things to show up.
 
agare$969

agare$969

Member
Roadblock007 said:
Nothing wrong with coco its a great medium, its probably the balance of things in your room that is out of wack.

VPD is very important, probably the most important single aspect of it all, if this is out the plant does not transpire as it should, then shit starts happening.
Irrigation volume and cycle. read some stuff on crop steering to get your head around irrigation.
Nutrient strength, no point running full nutrient if the plant is not transpiring at maximum.

If these are not dialled in for your particular grow space expect a chain reaction of things to show up.
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It is rather humid in the room. It definitely makes more sense now hearing that. Do you think a dehumidifier would help? Also how does one measure vpd? I also don't have a lux meter so thats a huge piece I'm missing. Thanks for the info!! I'll do some research. Also how do I know if I have an auto or not? I started seeing pistels on the bigger one so I wasn't sure if I should start 12 on 12 off or just let it ride at 18-6 for now and see what happens?
 
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Roadblock007

Well-Known Member
agare$969 said:
It is rather humid in the room. It definitely makes more sense now hearing that. Do you think a dehumidifier would help? Also how does one measure vpd? I also don't have a lux meter so thats a huge piece I'm missing. Thanks for the info!! I'll do some research. Also how do I know if I have an auto or not? I started seeing pistels on the bigger one so I wasn't sure if I should start 12 on 12 off or just let it ride at 18-6 for now and see what happens?
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How humid is your humidity and what is the temperature?
You measure VPD by measuring ambient temp, humidity and leaf temperature with those cheap IR spot temp gun, VPD is the relationship of the 3 which control the transpiration rates of the plant..
Some reading for you https://pulsegrow.com/blogs/learn/vpd

Lots of strains show pistols while growing, Ive never grown Autos my guess is they will show a lot as they kick into flower just as a normal plant will show when going into flower.

Lux meter doesn't matter and is not really an indication of the light a plant sees as in Par, it could help you space lights out but its not going to show you usable plant light.

People will go nuts when something is wrong and start adding all sorts of additives, to be honest Ive grown some great plants on very basic nutrients, most of the time the issues are something else and the plant is just showing it through toxicities and deficiencies because its metabolism is not using the nutrients so we get lockouts etc, doesn't matter what the nutrients if the plant is not absorbing things the way its supposed to.
 
agare$969

agare$969

Member
Roadblock007 said:
How humid is your humidity and what is the temperature?
You measure VPD by measuring ambient temp, humidity and leaf temperature with those cheap IR spot temp gun, VPD is the relationship of the 3 which control the transpiration rates of the plant..
Some reading for you https://pulsegrow.com/blogs/learn/vpd

Lots of strains show pistols while growing, Ive never grown Autos my guess is they will show a lot as they kick into flower just as a normal plant will show when going into flower.

Lux meter doesn't matter and is not really an indication of the light a plant sees as in Par, it could help you space lights out but its not going to show you usable plant light.

People will go nuts when something is wrong and start adding all sorts of additives, to be honest Ive grown some great plants on very basic nutrients, most of the time the issues are something else and the plant is just showing it through toxicities and deficiencies because its metabolism is not using the nutrients so we get lockouts etc, doesn't matter what the nutrients if the plant is not absorbing things the way its supposed to.
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Thanks for all the info man. Im going to read that directly! Tbh my humidity is about 70% I believe. According to my analog meter which isn't super accurate so I'd say between 65-75%. I do have a temp gun. Is there an equation to measure vpd using ambient temp, leaf temp and humidity? I've been growing in coco with 3 daily feedings using dyna gro grow and cal mag on 3 of the 4 and just the grow on the super dark one bc it looks like a nitrogen abundance so I backed off a little and it's seemed to have lightened the leaves up some.
 
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Roadblock007

Well-Known Member
Look at a vpd chart and you can dial in your system from that, for your humidity you want around 72 to 75 temps.

You want your leaf temp a few degrees cooler than ambient temps, if its the same or hotter you have problems.

Sometimes if you cant get them going indoors, weather permitting take them outside, give them a good flush and when they fire often within 48hrs then bring them back into the room.

Purple stems are a sign of stress that can come from many different things, the clawing etc can be salt building up around the roots, which causes water stress as the plant is not transpiring so it tries to conserve water, I feel this is why taking them outside gives them a kick as the roots will move in the medium and start to drink, whereas indoors they just sit dormant under strong lights and the medium becomes toxic.

Growing is easy when its going good and you basically can't kill them with a stick, but there is a very delicate balance going on and when one element is out the entire system breaks down, as soon as you see issues and you don't know the real cause back off on the demand being put on the plant, lower light intensity, lower feed strength no additives, slow down fans blowing on them, lower temps, back right off and give them time to recover.

I would put money on it your issues are not the nutrient as in brand but could be as in too strong for the plants current metabolism so cut your strength in half until they fire, as I said I've grown some awesome plants on very basic feed, right now I have some outside in 3 gal of coco that get the cheapest no name nutrient you can use that I don't even PH test just add lib a scoop into a bucket of water and feed them about 10 am once a day and they are beautiful color with not a blemish on them, the only trick to all of this is balance and getting things in harmony with each other, people throw money at additives and hype, honestly you don't need it an often these things just throw the balance out more.

I doubt your plants need 3 feeds a day the way they are, I would flush them with a very weak mix, and then let them dry back and only water going by the weight of the pot which may end up days between feedings, don't let them dry right out and don't drown them when you water, try an keep them in that moist state.

Good luck with it.
 
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