KNF and IMO "Indigenous Microorganisms"
- Thread starter xtsho
- Start date
living gardening
Well-Known Member
That's not Hogweed, that's wild parsnip. It Is wild parsnip, it not just a name. If you eat the stuff from the store, this is the exact same.That Hogweed is some nasty stuff.
Toxic giant hogweed sap that burns, blisters skin found in Clark County
If you spot giant hogweed, avoid touching the sap and alert Clark County Vegetation Management to remove it.www.oregonlive.com
It has Photoreactive liquid in the plant so that the sun causes the burns. It's way more prevalent than dandelions.
It is in every ditch!
After asparagus season (May) you don't really have a reason to go into the ditches here.
You have just as good of a chance of getting into poison ivy or poison sumac/oak if you were picking berries or sporaging.
The dangerous stuff doesn't grow in the same environment. Angelica likes moving sources of water near by and is definitely a wet area plant.
The crap grows in crap soils on the sides of roads and farm fields. Angelica will grow earlier here by about a mounth and has a big white flower.
WP has a yellow flower and comes on in the beginning of our hot summer. Also if you snap one open (stalk) the scent is very different.
xtsho
Well-Known Member
What?
That sure is Giant Hogweed.
Did you read the article? There is a link to the Oregon Department of Agriculture. It is not wild parsnip and is nothing like the root vegetable you can find in the grocery store.
xtsho
Well-Known Member
JLF brewing away.
Left to right: Pea JLF, Fava Bean JLF, Tomato leaf JLF. The Fava bean JLF is the oldest and stinkiest. I splashed some on my hand while stirring it and my hand still stinks even after washing a couple times.
I'm pretty impressed with the results using this free fertilizer. This corn is growing like crazy over 3 ft tall already and has only been fed IMO, FPJ, JMS, and JLF. All made basically for free. The growth is much better than when I was using chemical fertilizer. Everything in the garden is growing great. I'm sold on KNF and JADAM.
Left to right: Pea JLF, Fava Bean JLF, Tomato leaf JLF. The Fava bean JLF is the oldest and stinkiest. I splashed some on my hand while stirring it and my hand still stinks even after washing a couple times.
I'm pretty impressed with the results using this free fertilizer. This corn is growing like crazy over 3 ft tall already and has only been fed IMO, FPJ, JMS, and JLF. All made basically for free. The growth is much better than when I was using chemical fertilizer. Everything in the garden is growing great. I'm sold on KNF and JADAM.
living gardening
Well-Known Member
No I did not. . . Fail.
Just used to seeing those same pics. They circulate that crap every year here to scare ppl who may want to go and enjoy nature.
Literally the same pics.
Very nice plants.
So have you noticed any difference when you use different JLFs' ? Or is it just all good ? I have used the SSTs and am making 40 gallon of JLF outside with mostly stinging nettle. That stuff is some nasty nasty! How long did you let yours go?
Have you had any need to use JMS? I have the stuff for that too (who doesn't have potatoes salt and dirt?).
I wonder because there haven't been a lot of ppl that have really dove into JADAM and talked. Most everyone is KNF and that's cool, but brown sugar is expensive and so is Vodka. I'm cheap. I forage and I hate to pay for things. JADAM baby. But I have two jobs and two gardens 30min apart. Time isn't something I have. That or money.
Oh yeah, and my small indoor garden . . .
Hollatchaboy
Well-Known Member
That's some nasty shit!
xtsho
Well-Known Member
I've just gotten into KNF and JADAM so it hasn't been long enough for me to notice any differences with different JLF. JLF gets better with age and can be kept for years. What I have observed is that everything is growing better than it did when I was using chemical fertilizers. I've been making JMS about once a week and currently have a batch brewing right now.
I've stopped making FPJ because it requires brown sugar and am making JLF which only requires water and plant material. I'm still making KNF IMO though along with JMS.
I don't know if many people know this but Youngsang Cho the founder of JADAM is the son of Han-Kyu Cho the founder Korean Natural Farming. So it looks like the son is just simplifying some of the methods he learned from his father like making JMS from potatoes instead of the much longer process of making KNF IMO.
The older the liquid fertilizer, the better - JADAM Organic Farming
All farmers have small veggie gardens. What's different for Ms. Lee is that ...
en.jadam.kr
xtsho
Well-Known Member
I woke up in the middle of the night and couldn't get back to sleep so I was watching some of the JADAM lectures. One segment in particular that I hadn't watched before really made sense. Fertilizer companies are in business to sell fertilizer and that's what they do. But in the process with their feed charts and recommendations on when to fertilize with what chemical fertilizer they are actually destroying the soil requiring a never ending need to continue dumping more and more chemical fertilizer. Much of which ends up making its way into waterways causing problems with water quality, fish, and other wildlife.
living gardening
Well-Known Member
I would recommend the JADAM lectures to anyone that is interested in cultivation just because soo much money can be saved and put elsewhere. Like lighting or a quality watering system. It also shows that just about anything you thought was waste can be put to use. The books are very useful as well.
Dreminen169
Well-Known Member
The only downside of JADAM is I hear that it tends to accumulate a lot of heavy metals which is why most commercial growers do KNF over jadam because they often fail testing with JADAM. So as long as it’s for personal use & you don’t care about heavy metals JADAM inputs seems less expensive to make than KNF inputs
MAGpie81
Well-Known Member
Awesomeness.So I'm transitioning from chemical fertilizers to organic which will be the method I use to grow everything from vegetables to flowers and of course cannabis. My first foray into making my own organic soil was not very successful so I went back to chemicals and coco with some plants in store bought soil. But the desire to become a self sustaining grower and cut the tether to products that have to be continuously replenished by purchasing them put me on a path of research. After months and many late night sessions in front of the computer I've decided to go with KNF and some JADAM techniques.
KNF is a fascinating method of growing and it all makes perfect sense. You use what's already available in nature. Seems like a pretty simple concept but I soon realized that there is quite a learning curve but I like to learn so it's been a fun and exciting endeavor so far.
The first thing I have started with is collecting IMO's. It's a rather simple process and fortunately I have a wooded area in the back of my yard complete with a small patch of bamboo. It seemed like a perfect spot to collect IMO's. Here's how it went.
First I built a small wooden box out of some scrap cedar I had laying around and filled it with brown rice.
I then covered it with a silk screen material to prevent bugs from getting in and followed that with some metal screen to keep the squirrels out.
When that was done I found a spot under the trees and next to the bamboo and pushed the rich forest debris away, placed the container of rice, and then covered it with the material in the area.
5 days later
From all the research I've done it appears that I have successfully collected IMO's. This isn't the end of the process as this will be mixed with brown sugar and allowed to sit for a week before it's ready for use inoculating other material that will be spread over my garden beds and added to piles of soil to be used for container cannabis plants.
Anyway, I don't post much in the Organics section but look forward to learning and sharing in the future.
I’ve been gathering humus from my bamboo and redwoods and mixing them with brewer’s spent grain; I had never heard about the box trick!
Thanks for the quick how-to. Going to try it.
xtsho
Well-Known Member
I'm just posting what I've done based on what I've learned. I am in no way an expert or trying to provide step by step instructions. I'm pretty ghetto with my stuff. I try to not spend any money. It seems to be working. And that's the reason I'm doing it. To stop purchasing commercial products.
I have a lot to learn. This summer taught me a ton of stuff. Next year I'll apply what I've learned and have a much better harvest.
I'm doing this with my vegetable garden as well as outdoor cannabis.
Also, it takes time to build your soil properly. It's not a mix and your done thing. I'm mostly referring to my vegetable garden but all my cannabis plants are growing in some blend I mixed up. They do seem to like the JLF though. Greening up with no burnt tips or anything.
MAGpie81
Well-Known Member
I’m right there with ya’.
I’ve been mixing soil blends for a couple seasons now and my more recent ones have been a bit more informed. Going to phase-out all my plastic pots (except small sprouters/rooters), and any cloth pots smaller than ten-gallons, so I can really do some nice permaculture. Forgot- I also add some yard-made biochar to my mix, and really any good leaf-mold or degraded wood.
I have chickpeas growing with my canna in 100gal pots. Will snip up and use as topsoil once done.
I’m definitely still learning but have fun trying new ideas. My “fish beer” made in a 250gal tank from chopped up fishparts, filtered out beer-yeast liquid, plus some dead plant material and occasional doses of sugar, is working great, and I can keep refilling the tank to get as much of the nutrients and microbes as possible. It’s around 4.8 pH so I buffer with sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) and magnesium sulfate (Epsom salt) to bring it up to 5.5 - 6. My well water tests at about 5.8pH (redwood soil) after filtering so it doesn’t help much to bring up.
Good info, still, on the box- seems legit to me.
Happy soiling!
MAGpie81
Well-Known Member
I put in a gravel drive/walk area recently, and as I went to sweep the dust out of the back of my truck, I realized- Hey, this might have good trace minerals. So I grabbed a filter-bag I had used for some fpj and sifted out a solid quart or so.
Found this somewhat informative article; can’t vouch for validity, but it leads me to believe I probably have a mined basalt mix, seeing as it comes from harvested and crushed rock, though- despite the articles info- I imagine glacial rock ends up as crushed rock for construction purposes, too.
www.groworganic.com
I’m also aware it must contain heavy metals, but I’m growing for personal use and will only add a light sprinkle to my otherwise all organic-material (except pumice) soil blends, and my existing topsoil on permaculture beds.
Found this somewhat informative article; can’t vouch for validity, but it leads me to believe I probably have a mined basalt mix, seeing as it comes from harvested and crushed rock, though- despite the articles info- I imagine glacial rock ends up as crushed rock for construction purposes, too.
How to Use Fertilizers-Rock Dust - Organic Gardening Blog
Learn effective techniques for using rock dust fertilizers with our guide. Discover how rock dust fertilizer can enhance soil health and maximize plant growth.
www.groworganic.com
I’m also aware it must contain heavy metals, but I’m growing for personal use and will only add a light sprinkle to my otherwise all organic-material (except pumice) soil blends, and my existing topsoil on permaculture beds.
FermentFred
Active Member
I'm a big JADAM fan and I've been using it since last fall in my garden. JMS and random oak leaves as mulch has done a lot to bring soil life like worms and rollie pollies back into my planter boxes and all my plants love a foliar spraying of JMS + JLF, they get their color and life back fast and start praying almost indefinitely. My strawberries, blackberries, and blueberries all in particular really loved it. My current batch of JLF was made last fall of old pot plants (roots, stems, and leaves) mixed with various vines including pumpkin and blackberry vines, wild grasses and random weeds, and I'm sure some deer pellets here and there too lol. I like giving it a splash of JMS each time I make some to help build the diversity of life going on in there
I believe I've accidentally brewed some just leaving an old orange juice bottle full of JLF (which was filled right after it was emptied of the last of its KNF style LABs mind you) where the sun could get it - it went from dark green to reddish brown, with deep red stains on the plastic walls closest to the sunlight (and presumably where it may have still had a thin coating of LABs) and the smell had gone from the typical petting zoo boquet of JLF to a misty effervescent soda, like you'd almost drink it if you didn't know what was in it
Neat stuff
That's very interesting, I wonder which inputs in particular are contributing to that. One possible solution may be to use/brew PNSB, purple non-sulphur bacteria, like they use in EM-1 (albeit in a consortium with LABs, yeats, and more) for their heavy metal remediation properties. That, and studies have shown it's a rather miraculous microbe for enhancing crop yields and quality. Cho Jr hinted in the orange book that JMS provides PNSB in a section where he briefly talked about it and EM. I could find the quote if anyone was interested
I believe I've accidentally brewed some just leaving an old orange juice bottle full of JLF (which was filled right after it was emptied of the last of its KNF style LABs mind you) where the sun could get it - it went from dark green to reddish brown, with deep red stains on the plastic walls closest to the sunlight (and presumably where it may have still had a thin coating of LABs) and the smell had gone from the typical petting zoo boquet of JLF to a misty effervescent soda, like you'd almost drink it if you didn't know what was in it
Neat stuff
Last edited:
MAGpie81
Well-Known Member
I finally just looked up JADAM, and being a nitpicky (when it comes to people making great claims) kind-of-person, I want to ask-
Does anybody else think it’s not agreeable for someone who seems to be claiming responsible land-stewardship, to be using what looks like plastic weed-block tarping on their growing mounds?
Hopefully someone tells me, “No, that’s a biodegradable material made using low- or no-carbon footprint methods”…
-picture here cropped from JADAM website-
Does anybody else think it’s not agreeable for someone who seems to be claiming responsible land-stewardship, to be using what looks like plastic weed-block tarping on their growing mounds?
Hopefully someone tells me, “No, that’s a biodegradable material made using low- or no-carbon footprint methods”…
-picture here cropped from JADAM website-
xtsho
Well-Known Member
Black plastic mulching. Warms the soil and conserves water. I was going to use that method this year but didn't get around to it. I'm definitely going to use it next year as anything that reduces the need for water is a good thing here out west. It can last for multiple years. It's used on large scale farming as well.
Some of it is biodegradable.
FermentFred
Active Member
Not in the slightest, considering this is a forum for growing and talking about weed, and not an eco-activist forum for talking about carbon credits, protesting pipelines and shoving things up our butts (which all know goes hand in hand
). What a silly question. If it makes you feel better it could easily be cloth mulching, which iirc Cho liked better than plastic for its breathability - keeps the soil cooler in summer, lets gasses exchange etc, although Cho has used and recommended plastic mulching as a valuable tool in maintaining soil health. He talks about both in the orange book. JADAM isn't an ecological movement and afaik they don't make a point of making any claims on being "responsible land stewards" (lol), so it's kinda dumb of you to spread FUD based on what "seems" to be true when you admit you're only just starting to dive into it. It's a farming system designed to make farming accessible to poor and remote farmers who are crippled by their dependence on chemical fertilizers, pesticides, and herbicides. The kinds that kill the natural soil life that helps their plants protect and feed themselves, which leads to increased weed and pest pressure and decreased yields, thus inceasing the need for the chemical companies' products to fix their self-made mess (real convenient for the ag corps aint it?)That is to say: JADAM is about reducing costs, improving profits, and flipping the bird to our corporate overlords (cho's self admitted greatest inspirations are Karl Marx and Jesus Christ fyi); it just so happens that working with nature is cheaper and more effective than trying to force-feed and poison all your problems away. Who'da thunk? But after all that, beyond the xenoestrogen question I wouldn't worry about plastic that's designed to be reused as much as all the bottles and such that end up floating in the ocean, and don't let one thing that rubs you the wrong way turn you off from all the other useful information that you could be adding to your practices that achieve the goals you're aiming for.