[Question] Soil Reuse

[asylumhavoc]

I'm finishing my current grow with FFOF. After this cycle, I'm wanting to reuse this soil as I have 50 gallons. After the nutrients in the soil were exhausted I used general purpose liquid nutrients from DynaGrow. I've read a few recipes and guides, but it seems rather daunting... I have numerous local hydroponic stores to buy supplies but I wanted to keep it simple as I've never done this before. Can anyone recommend the amount and what types of additives I should mix back into the soil and how long to let it "cook"?

 

[Beastly]

Just go to the search bar and type in subcools super soil recipe. You don’t have to follow it to a t but can use whatever you like

 

[Richard Drysift]

I would add:

Oyster shell flour
Dolomite lime
Earthworm Castings
Kelp meal
Neem meal
Blood meal
Insect frass
Fish bone meal
Perlite

At the very least...
For 50 gals of soil you want to put a cup or two of each amendment with exception of the d-lime. You only will need a 1/2 cup or so. You can add EWC up to 1/3 of your mix but then you’ll probably also need to add perlite to lighten it up. Does not have to be deadly accurate with ratios; everything is slow release...

Optional amendments:
Garden gypsum
Composted Manure... cow or chicken
Basalt or azomite
Glacial Rock dust
Soft rock phosphate
Green sand

These are good for trace elements and good sources of natural fertilizer. The rock dusts, srp, and other minerals take so long to break down you could add and reap benefits for years. You do not have to add this all at once; you can easily get away with just a few of these inputs and add more as you aquire them. Compost of course is the single most important ingredient to any organic grow; don’t skimp on it. Throw all your amendments, compost, minerals, and fertilizer in the soil and let it set for 30 days. This will normalize the ph and allow for some inputs to begin decomposing so they are available once there are plants growing in it.

 

[asylumhavoc]

I would add:

Oyster shell flour
Dolomite lime
Earthworm Castings
Kelp meal
Neem meal
Blood meal
Insect frass
Fish bone meal
Perlite

At the very least...
For 50 gals of soil you want to put a cup or two of each amendment with exception of the d-lime. You only will need a 1/2 cup or so. You can add EWC up to 1/3 of your mix but then you’ll probably also need to add perlite to lighten it up. Does not have to be deadly accurate with ratios; everything is slow release...

Optional amendments:
Garden gypsum
Composted Manure... cow or chicken
Basalt or azomite
Glacial Rock dust
Soft rock phosphate
Green sand

These are good for trace elements and good sources of natural fertilizer. The rock dusts, srp, and other minerals take so long to break down you could add and reap benefits for years. You do not have to add this all at once; you can easily get away with just a few of these inputs and add more as you aquire them. Compost of course is the single most important ingredient to any organic grow; don’t skimp on it. Throw all your amendments, compost, minerals, and fertilizer in the soil and let it set for 30 days. This will normalize the ph and allow for some inputs to begin decomposing so they are available once there are plants growing in it.

When you say add 1/3 EWC, should I remove 1/3 of the soil and replace it with the EWC or just add the EWC? I had the previous mix on a 20% perlite to soil ratio so I was going to add more if needed anyway. I heard perlite eventually needs to be replaced.

 

[rkmcdon]

I would add:

Oyster shell flour
Dolomite lime
Earthworm Castings
Kelp meal
Neem meal
Blood meal
Insect frass
Fish bone meal
Perlite

At the very least...
For 50 gals of soil you want to put a cup or two of each amendment with exception of the d-lime. You only will need a 1/2 cup or so. You can add EWC up to 1/3 of your mix but then you’ll probably also need to add perlite to lighten it up. Does not have to be deadly accurate with ratios; everything is slow release...

Optional amendments:
Garden gypsum
Composted Manure... cow or chicken
Basalt or azomite
Glacial Rock dust
Soft rock phosphate
Green sand

These are good for trace elements and good sources of natural fertilizer. The rock dusts, srp, and other minerals take so long to break down you could add and reap benefits for years. You do not have to add this all at once; you can easily get away with just a few of these inputs and add more as you aquire them. Compost of course is the single most important ingredient to any organic grow; don’t skimp on it. Throw all your amendments, compost, minerals, and fertilizer in the soil and let it set for 30 days. This will normalize the ph and allow for some inputs to begin decomposing so they are available once there are plants growing in it.

^do this^
When he says add 1/3rd he just means mixing your soil with ewc where the ewc is 1/3 of the total volume. As he mentioned, you'll need to add aeration as well if you do this. So in this case you could do 1/3rd of your soil, 1/3rd ewc and 1/3rd aeration. You can mix in small batches, say 10 gallons of your soil with 10 gallons each of ewc's and aeration, or you could take your entire 50gallons of soil and mix with 50 gallons each of ewc's and aeration.

Does that make sense?

 

[asylumhavoc]

That does! Thank you so much... 150 gallons is a lot of soil, haha, so I'll do about 20 gallons of each and that'll give me a bit extra... Then to all that add 2 cups of each of those amendments except for lime do 1/2 cup... About the composted manure... Anyone know a good type of place to get that from?

Edit: I forgot to ask, for the optional amendmends, is 2 cups of what I can find good as well?

 

[rkmcdon]

Edit: I forgot to ask, for the optional amendmends, is 2 cups of what I can find good as well?

That depends on what all you can find. Take a look at what's available for you and post it here and I'm sure we can help you work through it. If you have trouble sourcing all of it, I would prioritize kelp, neem, one of the rock dusts (i prefer basalt, but i think azomite is usually easiest to source and least expensive) and oyster shell. Worst case scenario you can make it just fine with those alone with the base mix

If your mixing 20 gallons of each to get 60 gallons total, that's right at 8 cuft. I think a good place to start would be:
Insect Frass at 1 cup per cuft of base mix
2-3 cups total of your dry amendments per cuft of base mix (kelp, neem, blood meal, fish bone meal). I would do 1 cup per cuft each on kelp and neem then 1/2 cup per cuft each on the blood and fish bone meal)
2 cups of rock dust per cuft (basalt, azomite, glacial rock dust, green sand. That's 2 cups total, not 2 cups of each)
1 cup per cuft of oyster shell
1 cup per cuft of agricultural gypsum

That translates to:
8 cups insect frass
8 cups kelp meal
8 cups neem meal
4 cups blood meal
4 cups fish bone meal
16 cups rock dust
8 cups oyster shell
8 cups gypsum

I put the amounts in cups as a guide, but you don't have to be precise as Richard already pointed out. I don't personally use lime so check with @Richard Drysift on t his as well as his recs for the manure. I think he typically puts a little in the bottom of each pot.
Richard, do you still do the lime when your using oyster shell?

 

[Richard Drysift]

That depends on what all you can find. Take a look at what's available for you and post it here and I'm sure we can help you work through it. If you have trouble sourcing all of it, I would prioritize kelp, neem, one of the rock dusts (i prefer basalt, but i think azomite is usually easiest to source and least expensive) and oyster shell. Worst case scenario you can make it just fine with those alone with the base mix

If your mixing 20 gallons of each to get 60 gallons total, that's right at 8 cuft. I think a good place to start would be:
Insect Frass at 1 cup per cuft of base mix
2-3 cups total of your dry amendments per cuft of base mix (kelp, neem, blood meal, fish bone meal). I would do 1 cup per cuft each on kelp and neem then 1/2 cup per cuft each on the blood and fish bone meal)
2 cups of rock dust per cuft (basalt, azomite, glacial rock dust, green sand. That's 2 cups total, not 2 cups of each)
1 cup per cuft of oyster shell
1 cup per cuft of agricultural gypsum

That translates to:
8 cups insect frass
8 cups kelp meal
8 cups neem meal
4 cups blood meal
4 cups fish bone meal
16 cups rock dust
8 cups oyster shell
8 cups gypsum

I put the amounts in cups as a guide, but you don't have to be precise as Richard already pointed out. I don't personally use lime so check with @Richard Drysift on t his as well as his recs for the manure. I think he typically puts a little in the bottom of each pot.
Richard, do you still do the lime when your using oyster shell?

Yes but you only need to lime your soil maybe a few times per year. I add a small amount of oyster shell at almost every recycle because it breaks down pretty fast but lime is only needed maybe every other recycle and in smaller quantities than everything else.

 

[asylumhavoc]

That does! Thank you so much... 150 gallons is a lot of soil, haha, so I'll do about 20 gallons of each and that'll give me a bit extra... Then to all that add 2 cups of each of those amendments except for lime do 1/2 cup... About

Yes but you only need to lime your soil maybe a few times per year. I add a small amount of oyster shell at almost every recycle because it breaks down pretty fast but lime is only needed maybe every other recycle and in smaller quantities than everything else.

Ah. Would I add all these in between each harvest every time (save for the aforementioned lime)? If I skip the optional amendments would that hurt or is it really just optional? I can find probably a few of them but maybe not all... Also should I add somwthing to the top like a cover crop or mulch to keep it moist like I've seen people do...

 

[Richard Drysift]

Yes...everything optional is optional. Use whatever you have easy access to but basically you need at least one or more of each fertilizer, mineral, and compost inputs. You can always substitute with similar inputs. You can do a cover crop if you want. I don’t but many others around here do,

 

[PadawanWarrior]

Build a Soil's Craft Blend has a good mixture. I started with FFOF before turning it into no-till. I would still add EWC and more aeration too for sure. Perlite breaks down, so I use pumice and lava rock. If you go through this link you'll get $5 off.

BuildASoil: Organic Living Soil, Fertilizers, and Soil Amendments

Everything you need to grow no-till with organic living soil. Our mission is to support organic gardeners and to provide the best products and information on how to use them. We carry pre mixed super soil, living soil, organic soil fertilizers, organic water soluble nutrients, soil minerals...

i.refs.cc

I finally ordered the bucket last month. I've already been through a few bags.

 

[SpawnOfVader]

This is what I added for this run. I was too broke to restock on all the individual nutrients I needed AND I wanted to reuse my sohum soil from last run to save $$$$

Amazon.com : Super Soil Organic Concentrate : Garden & Outdoor

Amazon.com : Super Soil Organic Concentrate : Garden & Outdoor

www.amazon.com

Cheaper than the individual components for a single run (if you can afford to buy in bulk for individual ingredients that's probably way cheaper).

The only added nutrients on this round were during flowering- that concentrate plus the re-used soil was sufficient for veg (Roots Organic Terp Tea Bloom).

Per their ad "The concentrate has "cooked" and is ready for use after the potting soil has been added. Ingredients: Organic Earthworm Castings, High Quality Bat Guano, Blood Meal, Bone Meal, Fish Bone Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Kelp Meal, Dolomite Lime, Azomite, Epsom Salt, Coconut Water Powder , Aloe Vera The Microorganisms: Microorganisms:Glomus Aggregatum, Glomus Etunicatum, Glomus Intraradices,Glomus Mosseae, Pisolithus Tinctorius, Scleroderma Cepa, Scleroderma Citrinum,Trichoderma Harzianum, Trichoderma Koningii, Saccharomyces Cerevisiae,Azotobacter Chroococcum, Bacillus Amyloliquefaciens, Bacillus Azotoformans,Bacillus Coagulans, Bacillus Licheniformis, Bacillus Megaterium, BacillusPumilus, Bacillus Subtilis, Bacillus Thuringiensis, Paenibacillus Durum,Paenibacillus Polymyxa, Pseudomonas Aureofaciens, Pseudomonas Fluorescens. Product does have a strong smell when opened. This is normal and dissipates when mixed. "

 

[asylumhavoc]

Update: I bought 5 gallon bags of blood meal, oyster shell, fish bone dust, insect frass, azomite, and 6x15lb bags of EWC (wasnt sure how much so please chime in if I should get more)... I'm waiting for them to get neem and kelp meal in stock (ill also buy 5 gallon packs) I have a full 3 cubic feet of fresh FFOF that i can use and I'll mix with another 3 cubic feet of perlite to go with I hope 6 bags of EWC being enough.... I was having issues sourcing the rest

 

[asylumhavoc]

Alright, here we are everyone... Thanm you so much for the help! Questiom though... Will this last me through my next harvest or can I just add a little bit extra here and there... This was a bit over my budget, lol

 

[Northwood]

I guess I'm an ol'school organic grower from the 1970s, so excuse my simple questions. Why would nutrients be all used up in an organic grow cycle? It's kinda complicated that you'd need to amend your soil after every cycle isn't it? Why not just provide your soil with organic material on your current grow that will be available for the next grow? I guess I'm confused.

 

[asylumhavoc]

I guess I'm an ol'school organic grower from the 1970s, so excuse my simple questions. Why would nutrients be all used up in an organic grow cycle? It's kinda complicated that you'd need to amend your soil after every cycle isn't it? Why not just provide your soil with organic material on your current grow that will be available for the next grow? I guess I'm confused.

I wasn't sure... I've seen people say they need to reamend every 2-3 harvests or add teas to help, but is any of that really necessary? I should just be able to pH the water and grow!

 

[Northwood]

I wasn't sure... I've seen people say they need to reamend every 2-3 harvests or add teas to help, but is any of that really necessary? I should just be able to pH the water and grow!

I don't bother and I'm currently in cycle #7 with my current soil. I'm doing no-till though, so maybe that makes a difference because I don't use "organic" nutes with available salts that would get used up or leached out of my pot. With no-till, the idea is that your soil is even better upon harvest than the condition it was in when your plants were tiny seedlings. I've never used teas or anything like that. Every nutrient added to the top of the soil (biomass as mulch) gets gradually added to the soil as it decays. It takes awhile, so what I add now is actually preparing my soil for cycle #8 and not the current grow. I have grandchildren hoping for my death so they can inherit my soil. LOL

 

[BluntMoniker]

I don't bother and I'm currently in cycle #7 with my current soil. I'm doing no-till though, so maybe that makes a difference because I don't use "organic" nutes with available salts that would get used up or leached out of my pot. With no-till, the idea is that your soil is even better upon harvest than the condition it was in when your plants were tiny seedlings. I've never used teas or anything like that. Every nutrient added to the top of the soil (biomass as mulch) gets gradually added to the soil as it decays. It takes awhile, so what I add now is actually preparing my soil for cycle #8 and not the current grow. I have grandchildren hoping for my death so they can inherit my soil. LOL

He has to amend the soil, because he's starting with fox farm ocean forrest, which generally runs out of juice in mid flower (depending on pot/plant size) and needs a bit extra to get it to the end.

He's then going to re-amend THAT soil, so he's essentially starting from next to nothing in terms of organic matter and nutrient profile. Once he amends what he has and gets a few rounds in it, he'll be closer to where your at.

 

[Northwood]

He has to amend the soil, because he's starting with fox farm ocean forrest, which generally runs out of juice in mid flower (depending on pot/plant size) and needs a bit extra to get it to the end.

He's then going to re-amend THAT soil, so he's essentially starting from next to nothing in terms of organic matter and nutrient profile. Once he amends what he has and gets a few rounds in it, he'll be closer to where your at.

Oh okay thanks. Usually I figure organic soil should get even better grow after grow, so I guess I'm not exactly in line with others here. That's okay. Funny thing is that as an organic grower I need to soak up the nutrients (particularly nitrogen) that would otherwise be released from my soil and go up my exhaust as NH40

 

[asylumhavoc]

He has to amend the soil, because he's starting with fox farm ocean forrest, which generally runs out of juice in mid flower (depending on pot/plant size) and needs a bit extra to get it to the end.

He's then going to re-amend THAT soil, so he's essentially starting from next to nothing in terms of organic matter and nutrient profile. Once he amends what he has and gets a few rounds in it, he'll be closer to where your at.

So I can use this until for a full grow, and then add the same amount of nutrients I just did and that's all?