CO2 generator advice

[LarsVegasNirvana]

Thinking of getting a minigen co2 generator and an APC8200 controller for my 5x5 tent.

Does anyone have experience with the minigen? My apartment already has ~800ppm CO2 thanks to me and my cat. Will bumping that up to 1200ppm in a small apartment produce an enormous amount of heat? Would it be worth water cooling it to a radiator outside in the summer months or does that only work in the winter? Is it cheaper to switch to CO2 tanks in the summer? Or is it cheaper to run AC (and dehu) to deal with the heat (and humidity) instead? How long should I expect a tank of propane to last?

The reason I'm doing this is because I'm completely dialed in on everything except light, and was about to max out my lighting but then I realized that it would be cheaper in the long run to increase my yield with CO2 (in the form of propane) than it would be to increase my yield with more PPFD because of high electricity costs.

 

[Keesje]

I don't know your system, so can't help you with that.
But there is a connection between light, RH, EC and CO2. You can increase or decrease one, but then you also have to adjust the values of the others.

 

[LarsVegasNirvana]

I don't know your system, so can't help you with that.
But there is a connection between light, RH, EC and CO2. You can increase or decrease one, but then you also have to adjust the values of the others.

I have complete control over the environment. That shouldn't be a problem. Like I said, I've done literally everything else already.

 

[LarsVegasNirvana]

I even have high pressure misters in my tent so I can maintain 65%RH with my fan running full blast. When I say complete control I mean it.

 

[LarsVegasNirvana]

I plan to continue to run low VPD even with elevated CO2. I will raise my EC though.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0304423889900782

 

[ChrispyCritter]

@LarsVegasNirvana I use the Mini on a room with similar dimensions and I'm super happy. I used tanks before and it was a hasal. I'm switching to a/c from water cooling the room sadly due to chiller broke down and a/c was cheaper to go with for me now. Like yours mine was dialed in and in sync. Now I'm in the process of switching !y Mini to being cooled by a 1/10 hp chiller and 18 gal tub. I read somewhere a 1/4 hp chiller couldn't keep up with the Mini but i d be surprised about that. My previous chiller was 1 hp. Hopefully Im ok with 1/10 hp. I'll report back. Good luck.

 

[LarsVegasNirvana]

@LarsVegasNirvana I use the Mini on a room with similar dimensions and I'm super happy. I used tanks before and it was a hasal. I'm switching to a/c from water cooling the room sadly due to chiller broke down and a/c was cheaper to go with for me now. Like yours mine was dialed in and in sync. Now I'm in the process of switching !y Mini to being cooled by a 1/10 hp chiller and 18 gal tub. I read somewhere a 1/4 hp chiller couldn't keep up with the Mini but i d be surprised about that. My previous chiller was 1 hp. Hopefully Im ok with 1/10 hp. I'll report back. Good luck.

Have you run it without water cooling? That's what I plan to do as I'm currently running an induction bulb on an inkbird controller as a heater because the LEDs don't produce enough heat. I don't see the point of a chiller other than moving the heat to another room. My central AC is ultimately what's going to be dealing with the heat, chiller or not. The only problem with the heat would be triggering my exhaust fan too quickly but the air is just going to circulate around my (slightly drafty) apartment and come right back in through the intakes, so I don't think that's a big deal.

I just pulled the trigger on it today. Last night when I was still thinking about it Louvi jacked the price from $300 to $430! Luckily I found it from a 3rd party retailer for $280. I wonder if they have a bot that searches forums for their product name and then jacks the prices when it's mentioned?

I might do water cooling in the summer, but I'm afraid that 100F degree air outside won't really have much ability to cool water that is coming out of a water heater designed to heat water to about 105F for showers and such.

At any rate, I'm sure as shit not going to haul CO2 bottles from a welding supply store. I can get propane delivered to my front door for practically nothing.

 

[ChrispyCritter]

I haven't even tried it without cooling it.I guess I assumed it was would be too hot. My reasoning for cooling it is simply to take some pressure off my a/c. It's a dual hose model I !modified to take less co2 out and keep my room mostly sealed. I'd love a mini split but again I'm light on cssh. I had the chiller from of hydro setup of yore. Ol

 

[LarsVegasNirvana]

It's all the same principle. An AC is probably more efficient since refrigerant can probably carry more heat than water can.

I used a calculator to figure out how many BTU my setup should be putting out, and assuming this thing doesn't run very often it doesn't seem like it'll be a problem. I can always run it on a temp controller so it doesn't run if the room is already close to it's venting temp.

https://www.hawthornegc.com/tools/btu-calculator
Edit: this calculator is for a 2 burner, and I think the minigen is a 1 burner.

I feel you on the old equipment thing. I use my old high pressure aeroponics misters as a humidifier. Currently using my old magnetic induction lamp as a heater. It'll be nice to finally get rid of it.

I was also thinking of doing drain to waste. I would just have to run a shitload of tubing and do some light plumbing work. I don't pay for water, so fuck it.

 

[OldMedUser]

I just burn a little alcohol lamp in my grow room. A shoelace for a wick and it keeps the CO2 up around 1250 or higher depending on how often my fan kicks in which is hardly ever at this point. Burns about 150ml of methyl hydrate a day and a 4L jug is $10.

This is version 1.0 with tow tiki torch wicks and it cranks out way too much so went with smaller copper tube and the shoelace for a wick.



This is version 3 with the shoelace wick. Same jar. Grow space is around 360cf. Sits on the floor in front of the 12 fan that sits on a 3gal pail.
It's burning but you can't see the small flame unless it's dark. Can feel it tho. To put it out I just put a wire nut on top and that slows evaporation down to zilch too when not in use.

 

[LarsVegasNirvana]

I just burn a little alcohol lamp in my grow room. A shoelace for a wick and it keeps the CO2 up around 1250 or higher depending on how often my fan kicks in which is hardly ever at this point. Burns about 150ml of methyl hydrate a day and a 4L jug is $10.

This is version 1.0 with tow tiki torch wicks and it cranks out way too much so went with smaller copper tube and the shoelace for a wick.

View attachment 4449069

This is version 3 with the shoelace wick. Same jar. Grow space is around 360cf. Sits on the floor in front of the 12 fan that sits on a 3gal pail.
It's burning but you can't see the small flame unless it's dark. Can feel it tho. To put it out I just put a wire nut on top and that slows evaporation down to zilch too when not in use.

View attachment 4449091

I thought about using a flameless oxidation reaction of methyl hydrate with a palladium catalyst, but then I remembered how cheap it is to get propane delivered to my door. Minimum price per pound of carbon was my goal, and it turned out to be propane. You definitely have a way lower up front cost though, as this setup is going to run me about $550 to install.

 

[TintEastwood]

Good overview....

Hydrofarm > Resources

 

[OldMedUser]

I thought about using a flameless oxidation reaction of methyl hydrate with a palladium catalyst, but then I remembered how cheap it is to get propane delivered to my door. Minimum price per pound of carbon was my goal, and it turned out to be propane. You definitely have a way lower up front cost though, as this setup is going to run me about $550 to install.

I bought a CO2 controller and solenoid about 3 years ago but don't want to be messing with tanks either. As my grow is down underground a leak could make it dangerous for me. much more dangerous than the possibility of fire from my lamp. Got that idea from science classes in junior high when we used alcohol lamps as Bunsen burners. If it's safe enough for a bunch of dumb teenagers to play with it should be OK for me.

With the controller I can see the CO2 levels and realized I don't need a tank. I don't use the burner when I have enough lights running to cycle my exhaust fan more often so the y get lots of fresh air.

Almost $400 for the controller and solenoid too. Time to toss that up on Craig's list or Kijiji.

 

[LarsVegasNirvana]

I bought a CO2 controller and solenoid about 3 years ago but don't want to be messing with tanks either. As my grow is down underground a leak could make it dangerous for me. much more dangerous than the possibility of fire from my lamp. Got that idea from science classes in junior high when we used alcohol lamps as Bunsen burners. If it's safe enough for a bunch of dumb teenagers to play with it should be OK for me.

With the controller I can see the CO2 levels and realized I don't need a tank. I don't use the burner when I have enough lights running to cycle my exhaust fan more often so the y get lots of fresh air.

Almost $400 for the controller and solenoid too. Time to toss that up on Craig's list or Kijiji.

Keep the controller and rig up some kind of little arduino thing with a little high voltage sparker to light the alcohol and a servo motor to bring a candle-snuffer down on the flame when the power from the controller cuts off. If they're bringing in $430 for a minigen, I bet you could sell a little alcohol powered unit for mucho dinero since there is no risk of propane leak.

 

[OldMedUser]

Keep the controller and rig up some kind of little arduino thing with a little high voltage sparker to light the alcohol and a servo motor to bring a candle-snuffer down on the flame when the power from the controller cuts off. If they're bringing in $430 for a minigen, I bet you could sell a little alcohol powered unit for mucho dinero since there is no risk of propane leak.

Funny that. I'm waiting on an order from Amazon that includes 2 - Raspberry Pi 4 4G kits. Only meant to order 1 but shouldn't be drinking and shopping. lol

Learning all this new stuff is supposed to help keep the oldtimerz disease away and that's what my birth mom died of so maybe worth getting into. Trying to get into stocks and trading too and that's a steep learning curve on it's own. Book on Options trading on the way as well.

So your idea could become reality. I had already been thinking about something like that but more along the line of using a furnace gas module to fire it up. Bit of overkill tho. I've never been into electronics much so have limited knowledge about all that can be done.

I've been building computers for 30+ years so how hard can it be eh!

 

[LarsVegasNirvana]

Funny that. I'm waiting on an order from Amazon that includes 2 - Raspberry Pi 4 4G kits. Only meant to order 1 but shouldn't be drinking and shopping. lol

Learning all this new stuff is supposed to help keep the oldtimerz disease away and that's what my birth mom died of so maybe worth getting into. Trying to get into stocks and trading too and that's a steep learning curve on it's own. Book on Options trading on the way as well.

So your idea could become reality. I had already been thinking about something like that but more along the line of using a furnace gas module to fire it up. Bit of overkill tho. I've never been into electronics much so have limited knowledge about all that can be done.

I've been building computers for 30+ years so how hard can it be eh!

You really wouldn't even need the microcontroller if you just used like an electromagnet or solenoid and a spring, so when the power is on the snuffer lifts up and when it cuts off the spring pulls it back down. I bet the sparker is already an off-the-shelf part.

Buy bitcoin.

 

[LarsVegasNirvana]

I think I'll do drain to waste in the summer. I am worried that all the heat will conduct out of the water before it makes it through the 50 feet of tubing to the drain, but it's worth a shot.

 

[2com]

I'm currently running an induction bulb on an inkbird controller as a heater because the LEDs don't produce enough heat.

Just reading through your thread here but had to say, it's becoming more and more frequent now that I come across a forum/site post and find someone mentioning this issue.

Never heard of this "minigen", sounds cool.

Would the heat from the propane burner mostly offset your induction lamp's heat? Or are you actually worried it'll add even more heat than the induction lamp did (assuming you remove the induction lamp)?

I've been thinking of best ways to add useful heat to the actual plants (whether directly or via ambient temp) and one consideration was add a co2 gen. and stop constant air exchange (they have dehuey, etc. available). Get heat, with bonus co2, or other way around depending how you wanna look at it.
Otherwise wondering how many cutter ir leds to order or something like that, lol.

 

[2com]

If you somehow modify an "on demand"/tankless propane hot water heater into a nice diy co2 generator, I really wanna see the writeup and end product.

 

[2com]

I just burn a little alcohol lamp in my grow room. A shoelace for a wick and it keeps the CO2 up around 1250 or higher depending on how often my fan kicks in which is hardly ever at this point. Burns about 150ml of methyl hydrate a day and a 4L jug is $10.

This is version 1.0 with tow tiki torch wicks and it cranks out way too much so went with smaller copper tube and the shoelace for a wick.

View attachment 4449069

This is version 3 with the shoelace wick. Same jar. Grow space is around 360cf. Sits on the floor in front of the 12 fan that sits on a 3gal pail.
It's burning but you can't see the small flame unless it's dark. Can feel it tho. To put it out I just put a wire nut on top and that slows evaporation down to zilch too when not in use.

View attachment 4449091

Do you have a diy, even though it sounds pretty straight forward. Safety, specifics, etc.?
Thanks.