Organic Soil

[Groat21]

I am looking to start my next cycle (3 months from now) in all organic "super" soil, so to speak.

I have gathered the following, looking for good amounts to use of each, and what I may be missing.


Amendments:
Alfalfa Meal
Neem Meal
Crab Meal
Kelp Meal
Fish Bone Meal
Basalt
Azomite
Greensand
Soft Rock Phosphate
Oyster Shell Flour
Sulfate of Potash (0-0-52)

Also looking to get some Bat Guano, and possibly Humic acid powder to add to teas, what do you think?


Base Mix1/3-1/3-1/3)
Worm Castings
Perlite(Should I use something else, or a combination?)
Peat

And I am looking into finding good compost to mix with the worm castings for the compost portion of my soil. This is what I have found:
Mushroom Compost- https://www.homehardware.ca/en/25l-mushroom-compost-soil/p/5053039 (looks like it would be good for fungal growth?)

Fish and Sawdust compost-https://www.homehardware.ca/en/40l-meekers-magic-mix-fish-and-sawdust-compost/p/5053030 (I like that it is sourced close to me, and seems high quality)

Was thinking maybe a mix of the two, and worm castings. Then peat and perlite to round out the base.

Let me know what I should do, thanks!

 

[CaptainT]

https://www.kisorganics.com/blogs/news/basics-to-mixing-your-own-soil

This is a good starting mix. You really dont have to get complicated with your amendments. If your buying your worm castings mix a few different brands if possible. Use the compost for teas, i like a leaf compost if its available. Ive used hop organic compost. Ive been avoiding compost in my mix and just using castings mostly. I find less pest issues with the castings.
Use the above mix and let your soil sit mixed for a few weeks. Its really all about bringing your soil to life. Read all these blog articles. Dont try and grow too big of a plant for the pot size used.
Beneficial insects are worth the costs. I like to use Steinernema feltiae and Neoseiulus cucumeris.

 

[meangreengrowinmachine]

I am looking to start my next cycle (3 months from now) in all organic "super" soil, so to speak.

I have gathered the following, looking for good amounts to use of each, and what I may be missing.


Amendments:
Alfalfa Meal
Neem Meal
Crab Meal
Kelp Meal
Fish Bone Meal
Basalt
Azomite
Greensand
Soft Rock Phosphate
Oyster Shell Flour
Sulfate of Potash (0-0-52)

Also looking to get some Bat Guano, and possibly Humic acid powder to add to teas, what do you think?


Base Mix1/3-1/3-1/3)
Worm Castings
Perlite(Should I use something else, or a combination?)
Peat

And I am looking into finding good compost to mix with the worm castings for the compost portion of my soil. This is what I have found:
Mushroom Compost- https://www.homehardware.ca/en/25l-mushroom-compost-soil/p/5053039 (looks like it would be good for fungal growth?)

Fish and Sawdust compost-https://www.homehardware.ca/en/40l-meekers-magic-mix-fish-and-sawdust-compost/p/5053030 (I like that it is sourced close to me, and seems high quality)

Was thinking maybe a mix of the two, and worm castings. Then peat and perlite to round out the base.

Let me know what I should do, thanks!

I think your mix sounds good and very much disagree with the captain there about just buying a bag.

 

[CaptainT]

I think your mix sounds good and very much disagree with the captain there about just buying a bag.

Im curious, exactly how much of each ammendment he listed would you recommend using? Any useful input?

 

[meangreengrowinmachine]

well here is the mix I use... I may need to update this with my gypsum and grokashi toppings...

pete moss 7.5 gal
worm castings 3.75 gal (make a worm farm SO EZ!)
compost 3.75 gal
perlite 7.5 gal (a lot of people are going with rice hulls now instead)
lime 3 cups
glacial rock dust 12 cups
thats my base
then i mix my amendments together as below
kelp meal 6 cups
epsoma tomato tone 3 cups
alfalfa meal 3 cups
neem meal 3 cups
crab meal 3 cups
finely ground egg shells about 3 cups
azomite about a cup

I then take a total of 7.5 cups of the amendment mix and add it to the base and let it sit for at least 4 weeks...

 

[CaptainT]

Checkout that article i posted about building your own soil, nothing mentioned about just buying a bag??

 

[Groat21]

well here is the mix I use... I may need to update this with my gypsum and grokashi toppings...

pete moss 7.5 gal
worm castings 3.75 gal (make a worm farm SO EZ!)
compost 3.75 gal
perlite 7.5 gal (a lot of people are going with rice hulls now instead)
lime 3 cups
glacial rock dust 12 cups
thats my base
then i mix my amendments together as below
kelp meal 6 cups
epsoma tomato tone 3 cups
alfalfa meal 3 cups
neem meal 3 cups
crab meal 3 cups
finely ground egg shells about 3 cups
azomite about a cup

I then take a total of 7.5 cups of the amendment mix and add it to the base and let it sit for at least 4 weeks...

I've seen people use this epsoma tomato tone stuff. What is the advantage to using it over other amendments?

 

[Groat21]

well here is the mix I use... I may need to update this with my gypsum and grokashi toppings...

pete moss 7.5 gal
worm castings 3.75 gal (make a worm farm SO EZ!)
compost 3.75 gal
perlite 7.5 gal (a lot of people are going with rice hulls now instead)
lime 3 cups
glacial rock dust 12 cups
thats my base
then i mix my amendments together as below
kelp meal 6 cups
epsoma tomato tone 3 cups
alfalfa meal 3 cups
neem meal 3 cups
crab meal 3 cups
finely ground egg shells about 3 cups
azomite about a cup

I then take a total of 7.5 cups of the amendment mix and add it to the base and let it sit for at least 4 weeks...

So I’m not going to be switching into my organic living soil for about 3 months or so. What I’m wondering is, how long ahead of time should I cook it? Also, what is the best/easiest way to cook a smaller amount(25 gallons)?

Thanks

 

[loco41]

So I’m not going to be switching into my organic living soil for about 3 months or so. What I’m wondering is, how long ahead of time should I cook it? Also, what is the best/easiest way to cook a smaller amount(25 gallons)?

Thanks

I'm no expert, but I would mix it up and let it "cook" whenever you have time. From what I understand, to let it sit unused, as long as you have the proper moisture and don't let it dry out, the better. It'll give the soil time to get set up and start breaking down all the amendments you add to your soil, thus making it available to your plants whenever they need it.

I generally only mix up batches up the same size as you are doing, roughly 3 cubic feet at a time, and store them in old totes. I'll use a spare worm bin if available at the time with a few holes drilled around the upper edge to allow for some air flow through the top of the tote. Again, I've only been playing around with building organic soils from scratch for a little while, but this is what I've gathered so far. Hope it helps and others can lend some advice as well. Best of luck man and hope it runs smoothly for you.

 

[Groat21]

I'm no expert, but I would mix it up and let it "cook" whenever you have time. From what I understand, to let it sit unused, as long as you have the proper moisture and don't let it dry out, the better. It'll give the soil time to get set up and start breaking down all the amendments you add to your soil, thus making it available to your plants whenever they need it.

I generally only mix up batches up the same size as you are doing, roughly 3 cubic feet at a time, and store them in old totes. I'll use a spare worm bin if available at the time with a few holes drilled around the upper edge to allow for some air flow through the top of the tote. Again, I've only been playing around with building organic soils from scratch for a little while, but this is what I've gathered so far. Hope it helps and others can lend some advice as well. Best of luck man and hope it runs smoothly for you.

Yeah, I may need a larger container, to make it easier to mix it up. As it is right now it fills nearly to the brim lol.

 

[Growitpondifarm]

Yeah, I may need a larger container, to make it easier to mix it up. As it is right now it fills nearly to the brim lol.

Got a tarp? Just put it outside with a tarp over it. I think people in the organic cannabis world are over thinking things, I know because I did same thing. Your amendment list is quite large and a couple are redundant. Last few plants I’ve grown have been in 1:1 compost to peat ratio plus a small amount of perlite for aeration. My compost is quite chunky so it drains really well. For amendments I’m using rock dust from local landscape supply, $5 for like 30 gallon barrel, kelp meal, alfalfa meal and oyster shell flour(dolomite lime is totally fine as well) for ph balancing. Don’t over think it. Top dress with compost and kelp a few times during grow. When I switch lights I mix in fish bone meal with some compost/kelp topdress. This is 100% not the only way just showing that you can simplify things and still grow beautiful plants. Look into the animal feed stores for kelp, alfalfa and oyster shell flour, 1/2 the price of grow stores only thing is you don’t get the fancy packaging.


Good luck

 

[Groat21]

Got a tarp? Just put it outside with a tarp over it. I think people in the organic cannabis world are over thinking things, I know because I did same thing. Your amendment list is quite large and a couple are redundant. Last few plants I’ve grown have been in 1:1 compost to peat ratio plus a small amount of perlite for aeration. My compost is quite chunky so it drains really well. For amendments I’m using rock dust from local landscape supply, $5 for like 30 gallon barrel, kelp meal, alfalfa meal and oyster shell flour(dolomite lime is totally fine as well) for ph balancing. Don’t over think it. Top dress with compost and kelp a few times during grow. When I switch lights I mix in fish bone meal with some compost/kelp topdress. This is 100% not the only way just showing that you can simplify things and still grow beautiful plants. Look into the animal feed stores for kelp, alfalfa and oyster shell flour, 1/2 the price of grow stores only thing is you don’t get the fancy packaging.


Good luck

Thanks for the advice. Any pics of your organic buds?

 

[Groat21]

Got a tarp? Just put it outside with a tarp over it. I think people in the organic cannabis world are over thinking things, I know because I did same thing. Your amendment list is quite large and a couple are redundant. Last few plants I’ve grown have been in 1:1 compost to peat ratio plus a small amount of perlite for aeration. My compost is quite chunky so it drains really well. For amendments I’m using rock dust from local landscape supply, $5 for like 30 gallon barrel, kelp meal, alfalfa meal and oyster shell flour(dolomite lime is totally fine as well) for ph balancing. Don’t over think it. Top dress with compost and kelp a few times during grow. When I switch lights I mix in fish bone meal with some compost/kelp topdress. This is 100% not the only way just showing that you can simplify things and still grow beautiful plants. Look into the animal feed stores for kelp, alfalfa and oyster shell flour, 1/2 the price of grow stores only thing is you don’t get the fancy packaging.


Good luck

So I found this... https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07QGSCCQC/ref=pe_3034960_236394800_TE_3p_dp_i1

It would fit in my 3x3 tent and should accommodate 4, maybe 5 plants in an organic no-till setup.

I’m just trying to figure out a good, waterproof way to keep it a few inches off the ground (for drainage/ better air circulation)

 

[Northwood]

So I found this... https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07QGSCCQC/ref=pe_3034960_236394800_TE_3p_dp_i1

It would fit in my 3x3 tent and should accommodate 4, maybe 5 plants in an organic no-till setup.

I’m just trying to figure out a good, waterproof way to keep it a few inches off the ground (for drainage/ better air circulation)

No need to worry about keeping that fabric pot off the ground. I use a heavy duty water-proof tarp lining the bottom of my 5x5 tent under the insert that came with the tent. My pot (46" round fabric) sits right on top of all that without issue. I've seen organic growers using 4 foot round kiddie pools even, with a bunch of holes drilled out in the bottom. Don't over-think it! Lol

Plus you don't want your big square fabric pot to dry out too quickly. The worms and bacteria and stuff won't like it very much if the swings in hydration are huge.

What I'm skeptical about is the 4 or 5 plants in a 3x3. I grow 4 plants (our legal limit here in Canada) and I wish I had bought a 4x8 tent instead of a 5x5. It will be okay if you flip them really early, but these plants grow so fast when they have unrestricted room to spread their roots it's not even funny. In fact I know a guy who tried to grow 4 plants in a 3x3 in a 3 foot round fabric pot. within 8 weeks after the seeds popped, he had to tear out the other 3 plants before flip because the fastest growing plant had already taken over the entire tent!

 

[Groat21]

No need to worry about keeping that fabric pot off the ground. I use a heavy duty water-proof tarp lining the bottom of my 5x5 tent under the insert that came with the tent. My pot (46" round fabric) sits right on top of all that without issue. I've seen organic growers using 4 foot round kiddie pools even, with a bunch of holes drilled out in the bottom. Don't over-think it! Lol

Plus you don't want your big square fabric pot to dry out too quickly. The worms and bacteria and stuff won't like it very much if the swings in hydration are huge.

What I'm skeptical about is the 4 or 5 plants in a 3x3. I grow 4 plants (our legal limit here in Canada) and I wish I had bought a 4x8 tent instead of a 5x5. It will be okay if you flip them really early, but these plants grow so fast when they have unrestricted room to spread their roots it's not even funny. In fact I know a guy who tried to grow 4 plants in a 3x3 in a 3 foot round fabric pot. within 8 weeks after the seeds popped, he had to tear out the other 3 plants before flip because the fastest growing plant had already taken over the entire tent!

Yeah it’s going to be 4 plants, I should be able to train them to fill out a nice canopy, then I’ll switch to flower once they do. Unfortunately, 3x3 is as big as I can go right now though!

So where does the water go if you just have a tarp? I feel like I’ll need at least a few inches...

 

[Northwood]

Yeah it’s going to be 4 plants, I should be able to train them to fill out a nice canopy, then I’ll switch to flower once they do. Unfortunately, 3x3 is as big as I can go right now though!

So where does the water go if you just have a tarp? I feel like I’ll need at least a few inches...

Excess water in a fabric pot (even mine at almost 4 feet in diameter) just runs out from the bottom around the perimeter. It will end up in the tarp underneath around it. Keep in mind that we're doing organic here, not soilless with bottled nutes. You don't want a lot of runoff (if any) when you water.

That being said, since the pot and your tent are about the same dimensions, it would be difficult to see how much water you're even giving it because you'll not see if you have any runoff at all. That could be a problem because knowing how much water to add is trial and error at first using the point of run-off as a guide that you've watered too much. Personally I'd go with a smaller pot than your tent size for that reason. You'll have over 80 gallons of soil in that 3x3, even just filling it part way. That's probably way more than needed for flowering 4 plants after a short veg period. If it were me, I'd consider a 3 foot diameter round pot instead, or the next size smaller in the square form factor for that size tent.

 

[Groat21]

Excess water in a fabric pot (even mine at almost 4 feet in diameter) just runs out from the bottom around the perimeter. It will end up in the tarp underneath around it. Keep in mind that we're doing organic here, not soilless with bottled nutes. You don't want a lot of runoff (if any) when you water.

That being said, since the pot and your tent are about the same dimensions, it would be difficult to see how much water you're even giving it because you'll not see if you have any runoff at all. That could be a problem because knowing how much water to add is trial and error at first using the point of run-off as a guide that you've watered too much. Personally I'd go with a smaller pot than your tent size for that reason. You'll have over 80 gallons of soil in that 3x3, even just filling it part way. That's probably way more than needed for flowering 4 plants after a short veg period. If it were me, I'd consider a 3 foot diameter round pot instead, or the next size smaller in the square form factor for that size tent.

I could order the round one on amazon, with prime too... I’ll have to consider the trade off in size too!

Thanks again

 

[Growitpondifarm]

Thanks for the advice. Any pics of your organic buds?

Couple shots from last round, small pots so they faded a bit earlier than desired but still came out nice. Only thing these got were couple compost top dressings and one or two compost teas through their life cycle. Keep it simple and don’t overdue anything and you’ll be good

 

[Groat21]

I am going to be mixing up a version of coots mix, likely tomorrow (even though he hates how popular it has become lol).

Eventually I am going to try to make my worm castings as close to the quality of his as I can, I have got malted barley, neem, kelp, and aged manure as well

For now, I’m just wondering about alfalfa meal and fish bone meal. I have both, and would like to add them into the mix. Should I be using the recommended amount of 1/2 cup per cubic foot, or dial it back to maybe 1/4 cup?

I did just listen to a podcast where coot talked about an alfalfa-kelp tea. Should I just save the alfalfa and do this one plants are established? Very interested in the sapanins he talked about from alfalfa(and soap nuts, they are 25% sapanins!) . Any input is much appreciated, Thanks!

 

[MustangStudFarm]

I am going to be mixing up a version of coots mix, likely tomorrow (even though he hates how popular it has become lol).

Eventually I am going to try to make my worm castings as close to the quality of his as I can, I have got malted barley, neem, kelp, and aged manure as well

For now, I’m just wondering about alfalfa meal and fish bone meal. I have both, and would like to add them into the mix. Should I be using the recommended amount of 1/2 cup per cubic foot, or dial it back to maybe 1/4 cup?

I did just listen to a podcast where coot talked about an alfalfa-kelp tea. Should I just save the alfalfa and do this one plants are established? Very interested in the sapanins he talked about from alfalfa(and soap nuts, they are 25% sapanins!) . Any input is much appreciated, Thanks!

If your trying to follow Clackamas's recipe, stay away from high P inputs like fish bone meal.