is this the middle ages?

[Roger A. Shrubber]

So if "society" said I could chain you to a post, butter your saggy pimply ass with ky jelly and let a band of hungry female hyenas ravage you with their erect pseudo penis female hyena clitori, the majority decision "by society" would make it right? You would possess no right to refuse this? I think you would. (unless you were into hyenas)

You're saying, rights are not somehow intrinsic to individuals and are totally alterable by a
majority decision ? That slavery WASN'T wrong when it was societally accepted?


If wrong exists, right must, since "wrong" only gains meaning when used as a comparative to right. .

boy...you have the nerve to use the term "strawman"?....EVERY argument you've made so far has been a strawman, or specious, or just plain nonsensical.....
this is reductio ad absurdum^........taking a reasonable argument to unreasonable places to "prove" a point you couldn't otherwise prove...because it's wrong and stupid....
try harder or go away

 

[Rob Roy]

Well I did suggest he go for a walk in the woods wearing his ape suit, hunting season and all.

boy...you have the nerve to use the term "strawman"?....EVERY argument you've made so far has been a strawman, or specious, or just plain nonsensical.....
this is reductio ad absurdum^........taking a reasonable argument to unreasonable places to "prove" a point you couldn't otherwise prove...because it's wrong and stupid....
try harder or go away

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

yes...actually that is what i'm saying...you can have this stand that "rights" are intrinsically bestowed to you at birth.... but that's just a load of horseshit. we like to think that we stand on some moral high ground....but we do not. society does indeed make morals and ethics, and at the time slavery was in practice, it was considered alright. some things are just wrong though, and when people finally have enough time to think about social issues, it starts to bother them, until they make changes....that is social evolution. it used to be ok to make black people ride in the back of the bus, but it's not anymore....it used to be ok to shoot people who were trespassing on your property, but it's not anymore....women used to have to cover themselves from neck to ankle to go out in public, but not anymore....
things change. i don't really understand what it is you want. you want to get rid of the centralized government and operate on an honor system? do you believe for one second that that will work? that's fucking insanity...you keep suggesting things that might work if people could be trusted to mind their own business and not bother anyone else....but that's not going to happen in our lifetimes....people talk shit, back stab, manipulate, lie, cheat, steal, bugger, murder.......and you want to trust them to do the right thing on their own, just because it's the right thing?........i'm not trying to be mean or antagonize you....but the only way i can describe that is fucking insane.....to expect that to work in this reality means you do not operate in this reality often enough to know how it operates at all.....if you remove the central authority from any area...it immediately falls to shit....people go out in disasters to loot.....people steal christmas packages from porches....fuck dude.....how can you think anything you've ever suggested would work?

and by the way..Lysander Spooner was a fucking nutbar...a failed lawyer, failed real estate speculator, tried to start a competing mail delivery service and was shut down by the government for price fixing, he even suggested that the government be forced to loan money to people with business ideas.....just because.....now some of the crap you say has a source....a stupid source.....

 

[Budley Doright]

yes...actually that is what i'm saying...you can have this stand that "rights" are intrinsically bestowed to you at birth.... but that's just a load of horseshit. we like to think that we stand on some moral high ground....but we do not. society does indeed make morals and ethics, and at the time slavery was in practice, it was considered alright. some things are just wrong though, and when people finally have enough time to think about social issues, it starts to bother them, until they make changes....that is social evolution. it used to be ok to make black people ride in the back of the bus, but it's not anymore....it used to be ok to shoot people who were trespassing on your property, but it's not anymore....women used to have to cover themselves from neck to ankle to go out in public, but not anymore....
things change. i don't really understand what it is you want. you want to get rid of the centralized government and operate on an honor system? do you believe for one second that that will work? that's fucking insanity...you keep suggesting things that might work if people could be trusted to mind their own business and not bother anyone else....but that's not going to happen in our lifetimes....people talk shit, back stab, manipulate, lie, cheat, steal, bugger, murder.......and you want to trust them to do the right thing on their own, just because it's the right thing?........i'm not trying to be mean or antagonize you....but the only way i can describe that is fucking insane.....to expect that to work in this reality means you do not operate in this reality often enough to know how it operates at all.....if you remove the central authority from any area...it immediately falls to shit....people go out in disasters to loot.....people steal christmas packages from porches....fuck dude.....how can you think anything you've ever suggested would work?

and by the way..Lysander Spooner was a fucking nutbar...a failed lawyer, failed real estate speculator, tried to start a competing mail delivery service and was shut down by the government for price fixing, he even suggested that the government be forced to loan money to people with business ideas.....just because.....now some of the crap you say has a source....a stupid source.....

Not to mention we’ve moved way beyond any of these ideologies working. It was the 1800’s FFS. You cannot take any of these ideals and make them work in a global world. Hell it would not have worked in a tribal world. Asinine ideals, redicules moronic math to prove a point. Complaining about things but offering no alternative except memes when there is no alternative (one that would work) And still thinks he’s winning.

 

[Rob Roy]

yes...actually that is what i'm saying...you can have this stand that "rights" are intrinsically bestowed to you at birth.... but that's just a load of horseshit. we like to think that we stand on some moral high ground....but we do not. society does indeed make morals and ethics, and at the time slavery was in practice, it was considered alright. some things are just wrong though, and when people finally have enough time to think about social issues, it starts to bother them, until they make changes....that is social evolution. it used to be ok to make black people ride in the back of the bus, but it's not anymore....it used to be ok to shoot people who were trespassing on your property, but it's not anymore....women used to have to cover themselves from neck to ankle to go out in public, but not anymore....
things change. i don't really understand what it is you want. you want to get rid of the centralized government and operate on an honor system? do you believe for one second that that will work? that's fucking insanity...you keep suggesting things that might work if people could be trusted to mind their own business and not bother anyone else....but that's not going to happen in our lifetimes....people talk shit, back stab, manipulate, lie, cheat, steal, bugger, murder.......and you want to trust them to do the right thing on their own, just because it's the right thing?........i'm not trying to be mean or antagonize you....but the only way i can describe that is fucking insane.....to expect that to work in this reality means you do not operate in this reality often enough to know how it operates at all.....if you remove the central authority from any area...it immediately falls to shit....people go out in disasters to loot.....people steal christmas packages from porches....fuck dude.....how can you think anything you've ever suggested would work?

and by the way..Lysander Spooner was a fucking nutbar...a failed lawyer, failed real estate speculator, tried to start a competing mail delivery service and was shut down by the government for price fixing, he even suggested that the government be forced to loan money to people with business ideas.....just because.....now some of the crap you say has a source....a stupid source.....

Some things are just wrong though - Yes, some things are. I'd say insisting another person serve you and / or associate with you against their will is wrong. I'm not a fan of slavery and rape.

You don't really understand what it is I want - That is quite apparent. Most people don't even know what THEY want, and often hold two opposing views at once. Or falsely believe that thru an overarching hierarchical coercion based system, peace and equality can be protected, which upon examination collapses from it's own contradiction.

Honor system - You imply that my dislike for a super daddy central coercion based authority means that I believe in an "honor system" where people will automatically behave benevolently to others. I never said that. You appear to be suffering the short sightedness of a false dilemma.

Lysander Spooner - Was an abolitionist and a brilliant man, plus he had a really cool beard. Like every person he may have gotten the occasional pimple on his ass. Your characterization of him is a little bit misleading however.

 

[Rob Roy]

boy...you have the nerve to use the term "strawman"?....EVERY argument you've made so far has been a strawman, or specious, or just plain nonsensical.....
this is reductio ad absurdum^........taking a reasonable argument to unreasonable places to "prove" a point you couldn't otherwise prove...because it's wrong and stupid....
try harder or go away

When you can't address my questions which adeptly point out the flaws in your lame arguments, you ramp up the spittle. Please stay hydrated, lest you lose your most formidable argumentation technique.

 

[Rob Roy]

Not to mention we’ve moved way beyond any of these ideologies working. It was the 1800’s FFS. You cannot take any of these ideals and make them work in a global world. Hell it would not have worked in a tribal world. Asinine ideals, redicules moronic math to prove a point. Complaining about things but offering no alternative except memes when there is no alternative (one that would work) And still thinks he’s winning.

So you believe that involuntary human interactions as a norm are superior to voluntary human interactions as a norm ?

I do offer an alternative, stop supporting the use of offensive force as a systemic means. How you live your life beyond that, isn't up to me to lay out for you is it?

Moronic math? Are you saying that a sum of thousands of zeroes ISN'T still zero? You've been talking to @londonfog haven't you?

Asinine ideas? Do you mean like your contradictory idea wherein a central coercion based authority is the needed foundation for reducing coercion based force? How does basing a system in the thing you wish to reduce or eliminate accomplish that?

 

[ttystikk]

boy...you have the nerve to use the term "strawman"?....EVERY argument you've made so far has been a strawman, or specious, or just plain nonsensical.....
this is reductio ad absurdum^........taking a reasonable argument to unreasonable places to "prove" a point you couldn't otherwise prove...because it's wrong and stupid....
try harder or go away

Replying to the topic, not the post;

This isn't the Middle Ages; we're reliving the events of a century ago. Corporatism running rampant over the rights of the People, runaway imperialism abroad, extreme and growing wealth inequality.

The only difference is that now everyone has nukes and is itching to use them.

Sleep well...

 

[Budley Doright]

Replying to the topic, not the post;

This isn't the Middle Ages; we're reliving the events of a century ago. Corporatism running rampant over the rights of the People, runaway imperialism abroad, extreme and growing wealth inequality.

The only difference is that now everyone has nukes and is itching to use them.

Sleep well...

 

[Rob Roy]

View attachment 4256285

 

[UncleBuck]

as if we''re supposed to believe you give a shit about non-whites

 

[Fogdog]

Corporatism running rampant over the rights of the People, runaway imperialism abroad, extreme and growing wealth inequality.

The only difference is that now everyone has nukes and is itching to use them.

^Histrionic syndrome runs strong through this post.

Oh hey, how did that radio show you said you were working on for that public radio station in your area go?

If it were anybody else, I'd say it was grandiose but knowing all you've done for humanity, I'm just interested in hearing how it went.

 

[Budley Doright]

Yup there should have been a few that went to prison for those crimes. A defining moment in US history.

 

[Rob Roy]

as if we''re supposed to believe you give a shit about non-whites

 

[Rob Roy]

Yup there should have been a few that went to prison for those crimes. A defining moment in US history.

When the USA nuked women and children in Japan the war had already been won. The fairy tale of "we had to do it" has been repeated so often, it passes for the truth. It isn't the truth though. It's a cover story for blatant terrorism and baby killing.

It was a display of power to send a message to the Soviets and the rest of the world...A new boss is running the world now. It also conveniently kept the arms race going and aided the federal reserve later to rake it in via deficit spending... most of which was funneled to the military industrial complex, who conveniently serves as the ipso facto muscle for the federal reserve and money elites etc.

Nuclear weapons by definition are terrorist weapons, since they kill indiscriminately and knowingly cause murder, "collateral damage".

If you or I had a beef with somebody and blasted them with a bomb, and killed innocent bystanders in the process, most people would see us, rightfully as murderers. Why is it any different when people who call themselves your leader, "collaterally damage" people ? Rhetorical question. It's no different. There is no fixing that kind of government.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hotel-911-black-guest-oregon_us_5c27db4de4b0407e90833552

what the fuck is wrong with some white people?....this is ridiculous.....and the cop sided with them?.....a guy can't stand in the lobby of his hotel and make a call?....i hope he sues the shit out of them and wins, and it serves as an example for other idiots who think shit like this is ok. i grew up with very racist grandparents, and mildly racist parents. i'm sure i still have some tendencies, whether i'm blind to them or not, plenty of people around here are happy to point them out the second they rear their heads..(because those people sure as fuck aren't busy doing any self reflection)....but i've never even entertained the thought of calling the police on a black person doing an everyday thing...why would you? i just can't grasp the kind of fear that makes you afraid of a child selling lemonade....or a family having a picnic....or a registered hotel guest stopping to take a call in the lobby of the hotel he just paid to stay in.....
this shit just has to stop.....just don't have any suggestions at the moment.....

 

[Budley Doright]

When the USA nuked women and children in Japan the war had already been won. The fairy tale of "we had to do it" has been repeated so often, it passes for the truth. It isn't the truth though. It's a cover story for blatant terrorism and baby killing.

It was a display of power to send a message to the Soviets and the rest of the world...A new boss is running the world now. It also conveniently kept the arms race going and aided the federal reserve later to rake it in via deficit spending... most of which was funneled to the military industrial complex, who conveniently serves as the ipso facto muscle for the federal reserve and money elites etc.

Nuclear weapons by definition are terrorist weapons, since they kill indiscriminately and knowingly cause murder, "collateral damage".

If you or I had a beef with somebody and blasted them with a bomb, and killed innocent bystanders in the process, most people would see us, rightfully as murderers. Why is it any different when people who call themselves your leader, "collaterally damage" people ? Rhetorical question. It's no different. There is no fixing that kind of government.

Could you provide a source that explains “the war had already been won”. I’m not saying your wrong, because yes, all I’ve ever heard was that prolonging it would have cost many more US lives. If I had a beef with a “country” and the only way to stop that country from continuing to bomb my country was to bomb them, ya I would bomb the living fuck out of em. If the family next door was taking pot shots at you every time you went out doors and nobody was stopping them would you be justified in shooting back?

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

When the USA nuked women and children in Japan the war had already been won. The fairy tale of "we had to do it" has been repeated so often, it passes for the truth. It isn't the truth though. It's a cover story for blatant terrorism and baby killing.

It was a display of power to send a message to the Soviets and the rest of the world...A new boss is running the world now. It also conveniently kept the arms race going and aided the federal reserve later to rake it in via deficit spending... most of which was funneled to the military industrial complex, who conveniently serves as the ipso facto muscle for the federal reserve and money elites etc.

Nuclear weapons by definition are terrorist weapons, since they kill indiscriminately and knowingly cause murder, "collateral damage".

If you or I had a beef with somebody and blasted them with a bomb, and killed innocent bystanders in the process, most people would see us, rightfully as murderers. Why is it any different when people who call themselves your leader, "collaterally damage" people ? Rhetorical question. It's no different. There is no fixing that kind of government.

excuse me if i don't take many of your opinions seriously....you invent reality as you need it, and tailor pre-existing reality to fit your needs, so it's hard to take anything you say seriously.....i'm not really disputing your statement...just your veracity in general.....like trying to get factual information from a fantasy novel.....it might be there...but only because it supports the fantasy

the United States had to get the permission of Great Britain to drop the bombs. we had the Quebec agreement, and had agreed to not unilaterally use the bombs without the consent of our closest partner at the time...we were preparing for an invasion of japan at the time, which would have ended the war...at what cost?...226,000 doesn't seem that out of line to me....we offered them the opportunity to surrender, and they refused. it not only took the bombings, but Russia finally declaring war on japan for them to surrender.....
the bombings were horrific, and i hope they never are used again....but don't try to white wash the role the Japanese played in this, because it helps assuage your guilt....

 

[TacoMac]

When the USA nuked women and children in Japan the war had already been won.

The blame for that rest solely on the Emperor himself.

• He was told we had the bomb.
• He was told the power it had.
• He was told we'd use it if he didn't surrender.

He refused to surrender. That's on him, not us. It was us or them. It sure as shit wasn't going to be us. We didn't start the war, they did. They were given every opportunity to surrender and refused to do so.

And how fucking stupid were they? How little did they think of their own people? Even AFTER they saw the power of the first bomb, they REFUSED TO SURRENDER AGAIN!!!

That is, has always been and will always remain the fault of one man: Emperor Hirohito of Japan.

 

[Budley Doright]

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hotel-911-black-guest-oregon_us_5c27db4de4b0407e90833552

what the fuck is wrong with some white people?....this is ridiculous.....and the cop sided with them?.....a guy can't stand in the lobby of his hotel and make a call?....i hope he sues the shit out of them and wins, and it serves as an example for other idiots who think shit like this is ok. i grew up with very racist grandparents, and mildly racist parents. i'm sure i still have some tendencies, whether i'm blind to them or not, plenty of people around here are happy to point them out the second they rear their heads..(because those people sure as fuck aren't busy doing any self reflection)....but i've never even entertained the thought of calling the police on a black person doing an everyday thing...why would you? i just can't grasp the kind of fear that makes you afraid of a child selling lemonade....or a family having a picnic....or a registered hotel guest stopping to take a call in the lobby of the hotel he just paid to stay in.....
this shit just has to stop.....just don't have any suggestions at the moment.....

My family has a small cottage rental business and my old man would not let a family from Ottawa let their black friend stay, told them he does not allow coloured people stay......i was like WTF you can’t do that!!! “I can do what ever I want, it’s my property”. Sounds just like Rob’s eutopian world doesn’t it.