Buds quality LEDs VS HPS

[MichiganMedGrower]

dont recall the names, pre 2012 I think. some were those 899 square ones, some I think were the 5(watt?light) ones, others a little more or less costs. They vegged great. they did not flower as efficient as my demands required, they all had a (predetermined?) obsolescence it seemed, with entire banks failing within a couple years some times. overall...they might be cool in the game room but none will likely light my rooms again.

Tech a little out of date compared to the stuff they are pushing here.

But the cobs and quantum boards here are in the same phase as when the teenagers used to steal our hps street lamps in the 80's.

Seems commercial led industry is going with single colored diodes rather than full spectrum cobs.

The advantage of dialing in exact spectrums is the best benefit of led. And where the actual industry is heading.

They will be able to dial in the light for a certain crop just like fertilizer ratios.

But that is not the lighting the small companies here are selling. They have just been putting warehouse lamps in frames for the most part.

Or selling parts and having the buyer assemble.

I am sure there will be professional fixtures for a more reasonable price out soon.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

I've been about 4 years of white LEDs and COBs after twice that with HPSand CMH. They have been boxed up for years. I tried Lumigrow, Magnum and Vipar blurple And others with unsatisfactory results and used them for veg or supplemental lights. Then I bought a panel with all Cree white LEDs and HID was knocked out of the tent. Only thing lacking was coverage but then I bought a COB light and problem solved. My lights are not even the latest and they all have fans.

Yield is up and and potency is always excellent within particular strain. I run generally 40 watts or so per sq/ft for 10hours a day now. All in all it seems quality is up a bit and buds are always more gooey.

I still have several new CMH Mastercolor and Ushio HPS bulbs.

Things I am noticing that puts up a red flag for me are that all the most successful Grows are too close to 50 watts per square foot. I wouldn't save much energy. I use 50w of hid now.

And growroom temp seems to be an issue which is a real problem where I live.

And the kits and lamps sold here for a reasonable price look like cheap crap with the almuminum strip framing and exposed drivers and wires.

I will wait for a while still to buy. There will be plenty of better options pretty soon.

 

[ANC]

What is the PF on your ballast? 45W/foot is more than adequate.

Your 1000W ballast is going to 1000W throughout the grow likely or you might have one of those spectrum altering dimming functions.

It is good for 4x4 area. The same area can be lit with 720W of COBs that grow frost that will make your heart melt. That is a nearly 30% saving in power. You are going to grow a few grams like literally a few more on the HPS)

HIDs and CMH etc have nice ballasts and hoods available that can be air-cooled (works even better when all non light-passing surfaces are thermally insulated). But I have had some ideas on how to do the same for the COBs.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

[sits down in the led anon group..one day at a time]

i started with lighthouse hydro..they vegged ok flowered not ok and had planned obsolescence

I had some cobs made for me in china with crees and fans..still working great

then, when the samson leds started to showup on strips ,

like others who seem to think they invented the idea.. i made a homemade panel from them...they worked good

I drank too much coffee one day ...made an error ,stopped doing it ,forgave myself and

..now i just try to not step on the 7" x 11" design which is popular

but none of the technology was not already out there in some "too expensive" for me commercial lights already

"Like the others who seem to think they invented the idea"

This is the funniest part of the RIU led forum.

The lamps here are not known so much at the other forum I frequent. Ask about the best led lamp. They will say Fleunce.

And the old hps growers still have the nicest flowers there too.

 

[OLD MOTHER SATIVA]

Things I am noticing that puts up a red flag for me are that all the most successful Grows are too close to 50 watts per square foot. I wouldn't save much energy. I use 50w of hid now.

And growroom temp seems to be an issue which is a real problem where I live.

And the kits and lamps sold here for a reasonable price look like cheap crap with the almuminum strip framing and exposed drivers and wires.

I will wait for a while still to buy. There will be plenty of better options pretty soon.

"sure there will"
..in the mean time...i was able to grow all summer without too much heat which i could not do well with hid
..paid for my leds in 6 months with the electricity savings alone..and the quality of my crops were never better..

quote:

"Seems commercial led industry is going with single colored diodes rather than full spectrum cobs. "

sure they are..keep us posted please

ps.have you ever tried to hang around burples?

 

[Chunky Stool]

Apparently quantum boards are getting hard to find.
Is this a good deal?
https://growerslights.com/collections/led-grow-lights/products/horticulture-lighting-group-260-watt-xl-quantum-board-led-kit

So for $750 I can replace a 1,000w HPS and only pull 520w at the wall?

I'll take a closer look at this when the weather gets warmer. Maybe those kits will be a little less expensive...

 

[Rahz]

Things I am noticing that puts up a red flag for me are that all the most successful Grows are too close to 50 watts per square foot. I wouldn't save much energy. I use 50w of hid now.

They spread the intensity out better so it's possible to get away with 50 watts per foot at high efficiency, but not necessary to pull high G/ft.

1000 PPFD is a good place to be. It takes about 320 par watts to produce 1000 PPFD in a 4x4' area. The efficiency of output will determine the wattage it takes to achieve 320 par watts.

At 40% efficiency it will take about 50 watts per square foot
At 50% efficiency it will take about 40 watts per foot
At 60% efficiency it will take about 34 watts per foot

 

[CannaBruh]

Things I am noticing that puts up a red flag for me are that all the most successful Grows are too close to 50 watts per square foot. I wouldn't save much energy. I use 50w of hid now.

And growroom temp seems to be an issue which is a real problem where I live.

And the kits and lamps sold here for a reasonable price look like cheap crap with the almuminum strip framing and exposed drivers and wires.

I will wait for a while still to buy. There will be plenty of better options pretty soon.

I was pushing 60W/ft² and it was too much too hot, had it been HID the heat/efficiency would only have been worse.

I challenge you to run 1sq² with 20W of COB and keep temps cool (sub 80) height can be 3' at tops and I trust you'll at least be impressed with what the tech can do.

 

[Humanrob]

I guess in a way I'm lucky, I have no choice so I don't have to worry about which is better. Between the limited amps I have running to my grow space and my heat issues, the only way I can grow is with COBs. If I had started growing 5 or 10 years earlier, I'd have ultimately failed. So it's simple, and it's pure luck that my timing is what it is in terms of options available that meet my needs.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

I still don't know why people are purists when it comes to HID vs LED.
It's a lot like debating organic vs synthetic.

I grow "semi-organic".

Educated growers don't need to argue any of this. We need to read about plant science is all.

They spread the intensity out better so it's possible to get away with 50 watts per foot at high efficiency, but not necessary to pull high G/ft.

1000 PPFD is a good place to be. It takes about 320 par watts to produce 1000 PPFD in a 4x4' area. The efficiency of output will determine the wattage it takes to achieve 320 par watts.

At 40% efficiency it will take about 50 watts per square foot
At 50% efficiency it will take about 40 watts per foot
At 60% efficiency it will take about 34 watts per foot

But my 600's are already higher than 1000 PPFD no?

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

What is the PF on your ballast? 45W/foot is more than adequate.

Your 1000W ballast is going to 1000W throughout the grow likely or you might have one of those spectrum altering dimming functions.

It is good for 4x4 area. The same area can be lit with 720W of COBs that grow frost that will make your heart melt. That is a nearly 30% saving in power. You are going to grow a few grams like literally a few more on the HPS)

HIDs and CMH etc have nice ballasts and hoods available that can be air-cooled (works even better when all non light-passing surfaces are thermally insulated). But I have had some ideas on how to do the same for the COBs.

I use 600's due to low ceiling height and you are making my point about actual wattage needed is much closer or even more than advertised.

I average 20oz per 600 now. More if I monocrop cuts. I use the 600's over a 3.5 x 3.5 foot area. Just about 49 w per square foot. I sometimes have them out to 4 foot if they get too big.

And i have already found 315 cmh way over hyped. Less yield barely perceivable quality difference.

 

[hillbill]

I run 45 watts tops COBs for 10 hours, not 12 and that seems to actually be a bit different equation.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

"sure there will"
..in the mean time...i was able to grow all summer without too much heat which i could not do well with hid
..paid for my leds in 6 months with the electricity savings alone..and the quality of my crops were never better..

quote:

"Seems commercial led industry is going with single colored diodes rather than full spectrum cobs. "

sure they are..keep us posted please

ps.have you ever tried to hang around burples?

New led lamps are not blurple anymore. They use white, green and ir and uv diodes even. But they are $1500 and up.

And where I live I save up to $800 dollars of heating propane per year using hid exhaust to supplementally heat my home.

The air conditioning is shared between 2 rooms and is only an 8000 btu window unit I need on anyway in summer.

I would have to heat the flower room and lose the savings if I go led.

 

[ANC]

I use 600's due to low ceiling height and you are making my point about actual wattage needed is much closer or even more than advertised.

I average 20oz per 600 now. More if I monocrop cuts. I use the 600's over a 3.5 x 3.5 foot area. Just about 49 w per square foot. I sometimes have them out to 4 foot if they get too big.

And i have already found 315 cmh way over hyped. Less yield barely perceivable quality difference.

Because people want to compare 315W of one to 600 of the other... not realistic.
2 315CMHs going to give you way much more than an ordinary 600
I could slap two 240W cob bars in that space and outgrow that 600 any time and not deal with feet of stretch. (about 420W needed for same ratio)

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

I was pushing 60W/ft² and it was too much too hot, had it been HID the heat/efficiency would only have been worse.

I challenge you to run 1sq² with 20W of COB and keep temps cool (sub 80) height can be 3' at tops and I trust you'll at least be impressed with what the tech can do.

I can't fit anything I do in that space and it would prove nothing to me. I am not arguing about the ability of cobs to grow. I am arguing they are not better and that the tech we are discussing isn't even the kind of led that will be the standard.

I use air cooled hoods in my little room. I don't have a heat problem. I designed the room not to.

 

[Yodaweed]

Because people want to compare 315W of one to 600 of the other... not realistic.
2 315CMHs going to give you way much more than an ordinary 600
I could slap two 240W cob bars in that space and outgrow that 600 any time I think. (about 420W needed for same ratio)

You'd be thinking wrong then, 240w of any light won't compare to a 600w hps , it would need to be like 80-90% efficient to have similar PAR WATTS. even a 30% efficient 600w hps makes 180 par watts, 40% efficient makes 240 PAR WATTS

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

Because people want to compare 315W of one to 600 of the other... not realistic.
2 315CMHs going to give you way much more than an ordinary 600
I could slap two 240W cob bars in that space and outgrow that 600 any time I think. (about 420W needed for same ratio)

Right. At 90% of the power. Not 40% like they are advertising.

I'm ok with all the actual facts. You are being realistic. Unlike a cob salesmen.

I will wait for a while.

 

[MichiganMedGrower]

You'd be thinking wrong then, 240w of any light won't compare to a 600w hps , it would need to be like 80-90% efficient to have similar PAR WATTS. even a 30% efficient 600w hps makes 180 par watts, 40% efficient makes 240 PAR WATTS

He said 2

 

[Yodaweed]

He said 2

oh didn't see that, might be able to come close then with 2 of them, doubt the size of the nugs would be close tho.

 

[CannaBruh]

I can't fit anything I do in that space and it would prove nothing to me. I am not arguing about the ability of cobs to grow. I am arguing they are not better and that the tech we are discussing isn't even the kind of led that will be the standard.

I use air cooled hoods in my little room. I don't have a heat problem. I designed the room not to.

Ok then carry on... I'm offering a case scenario that can easily be vetted by peers and scale up.. it works
Air cooled hoods and HPS can't do what we can with LEDs, you'd be such a better designer with better tools imo but i respect your archaic choices as well afterall i rocked HIDs for years.