Clone only strains
- Thread starter kgp
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kaka420
Well-Known Member
Do a case study on og kush then. SFV, Ghost, Abusive, Tahoe were all the same cut from the same person. You can see how time and environments have changed the cuts.
since1991
Well-Known Member
Yeah but that goes back to my point above. Acquiring those cuts in real deal form is very difficult. So many offshoots. Fakes. And seed variations now with the og gear. And lets not even talk about the forum stories and tall tales. Especially with true history. Its lost as far as iam concerned.
since1991
Well-Known Member
Sfv..ghost..abusive..tahoe..were all the same cut from the same person? I would say..care to elaborate but it will probably start a shit storm. Your statement reaffirms mine in and of itself.
since1991
Well-Known Member
People that went through hell and back to acquire..lets say Ghost og for instance...and are totally convinced its the real that Ghost himself intended from the old overgrow.com days might not really have the real. Question really is...how would you know besides a story? Close to the source is still a gamble especially these days. And one could come full circle and say why even name these clone onlys and discuss them at all? Lol. Wow iam stoned. But this is good.
Bad Karma
Well-Known Member
This conversation is more common than you guys may think, but we've all had it, at one point, or another. Even the most seasoned growers may not be aware of this, so its a good time to have this dialogue, and straighten things out. Here's the best explanation I can find on the subject of cannabis genetics, Genotypes/Phenotypes, and how the grow environment effects everything. The following is taken from Royal Queen Seeds website.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Basic Cannabis Knowledge: Genotype and Phenotype
"Many growers tend to misuse the words genotype and phenotype when talking about cannabis. Let’s clear the smoke around this issue and resolve all the unnecessary confusion.
26 Apr 2016
There’s a point in the life of every grower when suddenly questions arise. Most of the time, this moment of confusion comes right after completing the first couple of grows, and at the latest, when the same strain is repeatedly grown using the identical set-up.
Why in the world does every single cannabis plant grown from seed look slightly different?
When these or similar questions remain unanswered, a logical reaction for a rookie grower would be to switch to another breeder. The more experienced cultivators know that this phenomenon, meaning variations among different plants of the same strain, is natural and won’t get any better by changing the seed supplier. We have to keep in mind that seeds are products of living organisms and the outcome of a natural breeding process, hence unique as any person, animal or plant on earth. Although it’s tempting to characterize all the things around us, we’re quick to reach limitations when dealing with nature.
GENOTYPE, ENVIRONMENT, PHENOTYPE
Every living organism is the result of evolution that works by the same basic principle. The genotype or genetic code carries all the genetic information regarding growth, appearance, and all the characteristics we can later observe. It’s crucial to understand that a genotype or genetic code is not something that is set in stone but rather defines a certain range of possibilities. It mainly depends on the environment the organism lives in what specific bits and pieces of the genotype will be activated. The interaction between genotype and environment results in a phenotype, meaning the physical expression of certain genes the environment triggered.
genotype (G) + environment (E) + genotype and environment interactions (GE) = phenotype (P)
QUICK EXAMPLE: PURPLE STRAINS
Let’s examine a cannabis related example to get a better idea. You purchase seeds from a reputable breeder and intend to grow a purple strain. Instead of growing all plants in your indoor grow tent, you’ll decide on moving half of your plants outdoors. Besides the fact that no plant seems to be identical to one another, you’ll notice that the plants in your outdoor garden are much richer in purple colours compared to the ones in your indoor grow tent. Although the genotype carries the information to produce purple hues, it’s the environment, and in this particular case, the temperatures of the environment, that allow two different physical expressions (phenotypes) from seemingly the same genetic code (genotype).
THE COMMON MISASSUMPTION
We got the idea that the environment is the determining factor influencing a genotype to express different phenotypes, but this doesn’t answer the initial question why every cannabis plant grown from seed appears to be slightly different, even when it’s grown in a constant environment of an indoor grow room.
How can a strain possibly express different phenotypes when the environment doesn’t change?
Well, it’s maybe an inconvenient truth, but every single cannabis seed has its unique genotype. Many growers assume that seeds from the same cannabis strain share an identical genetic code and understandingly expect homogeneous growth. Unfortunately, this is a common misassumption. There are lots of people using the term phenotype to describe the variations of plants they get from the same strain grown from seed. In fact, and what they usually don’t know, they’re talking about different genotypes. It’s not only the environment that determines phenotypic expression, but logically also the genotype itself.
When you purchase seeds of a certain strain, you’ll receive “family members” of this strain that share a large percentage of genetics with thousands of (inbred) siblings, yet they’re not identical twins. The genotype is usually very close to identical, but there are still differences, comparable to fraternal twins if you will. That’s the main reason why every cannabis plant grown from seed expresses slight variations regarding characteristics like plant height, yield, flavour, etc. – the genotype of seeds is usually not identical.
END THE PHENOTYPE DILEMMA: SEEDS VS CLONES
If you want to take homogeneity to the next level, you have two different options. The first option is to germinate more seeds as you intend to grow, and simply select the ones that express the desired traits at an early stage. But if you’re aiming for maximum efficiency and consistency, your best option is to select a mother plant to take clones from. These clones copy the genotype of the mother plant 1:1 and you’ll continuously end up with the same phenotype assuming a constant environment. Let’s say you grow one of these identical clones using a hydro set-up, and one in organic soil. This varying environment might result in different phenotypes of the same genotype."
source: https://www.royalqueenseeds.com/blog-basic-cannabis-knowledge-genotype-and-phenotype-n265
Odin*
Well-Known Member
Yes.
I received a GSC cut in late summer/early fall '15 that was insanely slow and yielded damn near nothing. It has since surpassed GG#4 in vigor. Equals it's yield. I've grown hundreds (maybe thousands) of strains. They all transform over several grows, some more so than others.
kaka420
Well-Known Member
Go to youtube, adam dunn show history of og kush. It is multiple hours of interviews but something decent to listen to while in the garden. Hear the history from the people who brought the clone to the online community.
kaka420
Well-Known Member
Sounds more like you brought the clone back to health and vigor then it performed better.
Odin*
Well-Known Member
Exactly, but as easily as a plants genetics can be degraded, they can be enhanced.
kaka420
Well-Known Member
Big time, have you see what probiotic earthboxes are doing to beat old strains? Very impressive. I've improved the vigor of my forum cut but she still gets a little woody when she shouldn't be. Im going to try an probiotic earth box soon, maybe even try it on old genetics that are vigorous and see what can happen for them also.
since1991
Well-Known Member
Good post homieThis conversation is more common than you guys may think, but we've all had it, at one point, or another. Even the most seasoned growers may not be aware of this, so its a good time to have this dialogue, and straighten things out. Here's the best explanation I can find on the subject of cannabis genetics, Genotypes/Phenotypes, and how the grow environment effects everything. The following is taken from Royal Queen Seeds website.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Basic Cannabis Knowledge: Genotype and Phenotype
"Many growers tend to misuse the words genotype and phenotype when talking about cannabis. Let’s clear the smoke around this issue and resolve all the unnecessary confusion.
26 Apr 2016
There’s a point in the life of every grower when suddenly questions arise. Most of the time, this moment of confusion comes right after completing the first couple of grows, and at the latest, when the same strain is repeatedly grown using the identical set-up.
Why in the world does every single cannabis plant grown from seed look slightly different?
When these or similar questions remain unanswered, a logical reaction for a rookie grower would be to switch to another breeder. The more experienced cultivators know that this phenomenon, meaning variations among different plants of the same strain, is natural and won’t get any better by changing the seed supplier. We have to keep in mind that seeds are products of living organisms and the outcome of a natural breeding process, hence unique as any person, animal or plant on earth. Although it’s tempting to characterize all the things around us, we’re quick to reach limitations when dealing with nature.
GENOTYPE, ENVIRONMENT, PHENOTYPE
Every living organism is the result of evolution that works by the same basic principle. The genotype or genetic code carries all the genetic information regarding growth, appearance, and all the characteristics we can later observe. It’s crucial to understand that a genotype or genetic code is not something that is set in stone but rather defines a certain range of possibilities. It mainly depends on the environment the organism lives in what specific bits and pieces of the genotype will be activated. The interaction between genotype and environment results in a phenotype, meaning the physical expression of certain genes the environment triggered.
genotype (G) + environment (E) + genotype and environment interactions (GE) = phenotype (P)
QUICK EXAMPLE: PURPLE STRAINS
Let’s examine a cannabis related example to get a better idea. You purchase seeds from a reputable breeder and intend to grow a purple strain. Instead of growing all plants in your indoor grow tent, you’ll decide on moving half of your plants outdoors. Besides the fact that no plant seems to be identical to one another, you’ll notice that the plants in your outdoor garden are much richer in purple colours compared to the ones in your indoor grow tent. Although the genotype carries the information to produce purple hues, it’s the environment, and in this particular case, the temperatures of the environment, that allow two different physical expressions (phenotypes) from seemingly the same genetic code (genotype).
THE COMMON MISASSUMPTION
We got the idea that the environment is the determining factor influencing a genotype to express different phenotypes, but this doesn’t answer the initial question why every cannabis plant grown from seed appears to be slightly different, even when it’s grown in a constant environment of an indoor grow room.
How can a strain possibly express different phenotypes when the environment doesn’t change?
Well, it’s maybe an inconvenient truth, but every single cannabis seed has its unique genotype. Many growers assume that seeds from the same cannabis strain share an identical genetic code and understandingly expect homogeneous growth. Unfortunately, this is a common misassumption. There are lots of people using the term phenotype to describe the variations of plants they get from the same strain grown from seed. In fact, and what they usually don’t know, they’re talking about different genotypes. It’s not only the environment that determines phenotypic expression, but logically also the genotype itself.
When you purchase seeds of a certain strain, you’ll receive “family members” of this strain that share a large percentage of genetics with thousands of (inbred) siblings, yet they’re not identical twins. The genotype is usually very close to identical, but there are still differences, comparable to fraternal twins if you will. That’s the main reason why every cannabis plant grown from seed expresses slight variations regarding characteristics like plant height, yield, flavour, etc. – the genotype of seeds is usually not identical.
END THE PHENOTYPE DILEMMA: SEEDS VS CLONES
If you want to take homogeneity to the next level, you have two different options. The first option is to germinate more seeds as you intend to grow, and simply select the ones that express the desired traits at an early stage. But if you’re aiming for maximum efficiency and consistency, your best option is to select a mother plant to take clones from. These clones copy the genotype of the mother plant 1:1 and you’ll continuously end up with the same phenotype assuming a constant environment. Let’s say you grow one of these identical clones using a hydro set-up, and one in organic soil. This varying environment might result in different phenotypes of the same genotype."
source: https://www.royalqueenseeds.com/blog-basic-cannabis-knowledge-genotype-and-phenotype-n265
since1991
Well-Known Member
I dont know much but i do know this....the one trait that has consistency with indoor grown cannabis under artificial conditions is smell.This conversation is more common than you guys may think, but we've all had it, at one point, or another. Even the most seasoned growers may not be aware of this, so its a good time to have this dialogue, and straighten things out. Here's the best explanation I can find on the subject of cannabis genetics, Genotypes/Phenotypes, and how the grow environment effects everything. The following is taken from Royal Queen Seeds website.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Basic Cannabis Knowledge: Genotype and Phenotype
"Many growers tend to misuse the words genotype and phenotype when talking about cannabis. Let’s clear the smoke around this issue and resolve all the unnecessary confusion.
26 Apr 2016
There’s a point in the life of every grower when suddenly questions arise. Most of the time, this moment of confusion comes right after completing the first couple of grows, and at the latest, when the same strain is repeatedly grown using the identical set-up.
Why in the world does every single cannabis plant grown from seed look slightly different?
When these or similar questions remain unanswered, a logical reaction for a rookie grower would be to switch to another breeder. The more experienced cultivators know that this phenomenon, meaning variations among different plants of the same strain, is natural and won’t get any better by changing the seed supplier. We have to keep in mind that seeds are products of living organisms and the outcome of a natural breeding process, hence unique as any person, animal or plant on earth. Although it’s tempting to characterize all the things around us, we’re quick to reach limitations when dealing with nature.
GENOTYPE, ENVIRONMENT, PHENOTYPE
Every living organism is the result of evolution that works by the same basic principle. The genotype or genetic code carries all the genetic information regarding growth, appearance, and all the characteristics we can later observe. It’s crucial to understand that a genotype or genetic code is not something that is set in stone but rather defines a certain range of possibilities. It mainly depends on the environment the organism lives in what specific bits and pieces of the genotype will be activated. The interaction between genotype and environment results in a phenotype, meaning the physical expression of certain genes the environment triggered.
genotype (G) + environment (E) + genotype and environment interactions (GE) = phenotype (P)
QUICK EXAMPLE: PURPLE STRAINS
Let’s examine a cannabis related example to get a better idea. You purchase seeds from a reputable breeder and intend to grow a purple strain. Instead of growing all plants in your indoor grow tent, you’ll decide on moving half of your plants outdoors. Besides the fact that no plant seems to be identical to one another, you’ll notice that the plants in your outdoor garden are much richer in purple colours compared to the ones in your indoor grow tent. Although the genotype carries the information to produce purple hues, it’s the environment, and in this particular case, the temperatures of the environment, that allow two different physical expressions (phenotypes) from seemingly the same genetic code (genotype).
THE COMMON MISASSUMPTION
We got the idea that the environment is the determining factor influencing a genotype to express different phenotypes, but this doesn’t answer the initial question why every cannabis plant grown from seed appears to be slightly different, even when it’s grown in a constant environment of an indoor grow room.
How can a strain possibly express different phenotypes when the environment doesn’t change?
Well, it’s maybe an inconvenient truth, but every single cannabis seed has its unique genotype. Many growers assume that seeds from the same cannabis strain share an identical genetic code and understandingly expect homogeneous growth. Unfortunately, this is a common misassumption. There are lots of people using the term phenotype to describe the variations of plants they get from the same strain grown from seed. In fact, and what they usually don’t know, they’re talking about different genotypes. It’s not only the environment that determines phenotypic expression, but logically also the genotype itself.
When you purchase seeds of a certain strain, you’ll receive “family members” of this strain that share a large percentage of genetics with thousands of (inbred) siblings, yet they’re not identical twins. The genotype is usually very close to identical, but there are still differences, comparable to fraternal twins if you will. That’s the main reason why every cannabis plant grown from seed expresses slight variations regarding characteristics like plant height, yield, flavour, etc. – the genotype of seeds is usually not identical.
END THE PHENOTYPE DILEMMA: SEEDS VS CLONES
If you want to take homogeneity to the next level, you have two different options. The first option is to germinate more seeds as you intend to grow, and simply select the ones that express the desired traits at an early stage. But if you’re aiming for maximum efficiency and consistency, your best option is to select a mother plant to take clones from. These clones copy the genotype of the mother plant 1:1 and you’ll continuously end up with the same phenotype assuming a constant environment. Let’s say you grow one of these identical clones using a hydro set-up, and one in organic soil. This varying environment might result in different phenotypes of the same genotype."
source: https://www.royalqueenseeds.com/blog-basic-cannabis-knowledge-genotype-and-phenotype-n265
Mr.Head
Well-Known Member
Damn those are expensive. I mixed 40 gallons of Compost, worm castings, Peat, Coco and ammendments. I ordered Clover cover crop 1lb, EM 1 liter of premixed, Myko 150g, Bokashi 1lb, Humic/Fulvic 1lb and bot 4 ten gallon totes it cost about as much as one of those kits. It cost about $200 CAD to build my soil. One of those boxes in $183 Canadian that's crazy to my cheap ass.
Getting it all together seems convenient but my god is that expensive to do my whole garden that way would be over $800 Canadian after shipping. I see no worm castings in that mix, I don't know if they come in the soil premixed or what.
I'd buy the boxes and mix my own soil. There's cheap as fuck bokashi out there and ways to make it yourself out of everything from wood chips to coffee grounds.
higher self
Well-Known Member
Yeah I was gonna say only thing I would buy is one of those boxes but I could spend that $30 building a drip line
Mr.Head
Well-Known Member
That's my plan, got my pump and setting up soaker lines in a couple and 2 gallon/hour drippers in the others see what works better.
I got a pond/fountain pump this time, hoping it holds up to the teas I want to pump through it. Hydropumps don't seem to like the molasses
hippy132
Well-Known Member
Do you take it appart and clean it when you are done. I inly do 5 gallons at a time but never have had an issue.That's my plan, got my pump and setting up soaker lines in a couple and 2 gallon/hour drippers in the others see what works better.
I got a pond/fountain pump this time, hoping it holds up to the teas I want to pump through it. Hydropumps don't seem to like the molasses
Getgrowingson
Well-Known Member
I'm looking for some as well in the area. If you have anything for trade might be interested. Also giving billybudd a shot figured he'll if I get something good for a hundo bux great if not no big loss.
Bubby'sndalab
Well-Known Member
Now getting reports that my gifted clone might not be ghost-i had my doubts-@odin i agree looks like a cookie cross-but ive never grown cookies either-i will continue to grow this clone out & post pics
Bubby'sndalab
Well-Known Member
Hope this is gg#4 now-looks like a keeper either way