Bubbleponics slow grow

[mararules]

Hi guys,

I've started my first grow ever in a bubbleponics system! After germinated the seeds I planted them in rockwool and tried to follow everything I've learned and read.

It's a 13 gallons res for 3 plants in a 2.5x2.5x6 feet tent. Water top fed 24/7 and LED MarsHydro 600w 24/7. Temperature steady at around 68F.
A couple things that I think I did wrong already :b

- First 3 days I couldn't properly adjust PH, at one time it stood at ph 4 for more than 12 hours.
- On day one I've already used too much nutes I think, with ppm around 600. My tap water comes at 300 (think it has a lot of calcium or some shit)
- I could have invested on a cheap FLC light for first days I think, as the LED might have been to strong.


This leads me to believe that I have a slow grow so far, and on day 8 they look like this:



What do you guys think? Am I over reacting? I'm thinking now if I should simply start over again with new seeds or stick to this. Want to lear as much as possible

Thanks !

 

[DrBlaze]

IMO no reason to start over, you've got 2 fine looking seedlings and one questionable one. It may be that the third pheno is a bit more susceptible to ph problems and got a bit twisted up, but I don't see any burning or discoloration, so I wouldn't worry too much. Just watch your ppms. If your tap is at 300 I would prob keep your overall ppm at 375 or so. Normally I would have them at around 150ppm, but I use RO.
They're probably going a bit slow atm due to nutrients being locked out when the ph crashed, and they may have been a bit shocked by the high ppm, but they should come back fine if you keep things steady. Just don't do too much to them, newer growers have a tendency to love their new plants to death.

 

[firsttimeARE]

With a tap ppm that high id get it tested so you know whats in it.

Excess of certain nutrients affects the uptake of others. This is especially true for smaller plants that are getting less nutrients meaning the majority of your total ppm is unknown.

Here is a good chart. For instance too much K will affect Ca, P, N, B and Mg. And since all those have arrows pointing towards K excess of those will affect the uptake of K.

Whereas K helps Mn and Fe be absorbed better.

 

[DrBlaze]

id get it tested so you know whats in it.

Op: check online, your city or town may have that information available, a lot of water departments do.

 

[NORMLnorm]

Noob here... don't mean to hijack your thread, but have similar setup and similar looking plants.

I've started my first grow ever in a bubbleponics system! After germinated the seeds I planted them in plugs put into system.
11 days since going into system.
It's a 13 gallons res for 3 plants in a 2x2x6 feet tent.
One plant is doing very well and shooting some roots, and other 2 are slow and small (ones leaves are curling and cupping under.
Water top fed 4 times daily and LED 600w 18/6.
Temperature steady at around 75F day/68 night. Ph right around 5.8 (auto).
RO water straight right now. Very low ppm when started and now 280. No nutes added.
Found some light tan slime on pump hose to took out and cleaned in h202. Also added some h202 to res.
Just checked roots and very tips are turning brown
Water temp has been low 70's to try to stimulate the seeds/roots. Highest was 73.9.
Once cleaned will turn on chiller to keep 68.

When should I feed? Have Flora Duo A/B right now.
Also getting Hydroguard tmo and will clean and refill res tmo.
Anything else I should be doing until I get hydroguard/clean tmo?

Thanks much!

 

[firsttimeARE]

Op: check online, your city or town may have that information available, a lot of water departments do.

That would be easiest and cheapest.

My report I got from JR Peters differs from the report published by my water department slightly.

It also doesnt show everything as well. Its $40 and its worth it especially if you have 300ppm water.

Now that I got it tested I can add that to hydrobuddy as my water source and more accurately track the feed level of each element.

 

[firsttimeARE]

Noob here... don't mean to hijack your thread, but have similar setup and similar looking plants.

I've started my first grow ever in a bubbleponics system! After germinated the seeds I planted them in plugs put into system.
11 days since going into system.
It's a 13 gallons res for 3 plants in a 2x2x6 feet tent.
One plant is doing very well and shooting some roots, and other 2 are slow and small (ones leaves are curling and cupping under.
Water top fed 4 times daily and LED 600w 18/6.
Temperature steady at around 75F day/68 night. Ph right around 5.8 (auto).
RO water straight right now. Very low ppm when started and now 280. No nutes added.
Found some light tan slime on pump hose to took out and cleaned in h202. Also added some h202 to res.
Just checked roots and very tips are turning brown
Water temp has been low 70's to try to stimulate the seeds/roots. Highest was 73.9.
Once cleaned will turn on chiller to keep 68.

When should I feed? Have Flora Duo A/B right now.
Also getting Hydroguard tmo and will clean and refill res tmo.
Anything else I should be doing until I get hydroguard/clean tmo?

Thanks much!

Wait youre using RO water and its 280 ppm?

You should already be feeding. Id chuck that RO filter if its giving you 280ppm water.

H2O2 could have caused the burnt root tips. As long as they arent mushy you dont have root rot.

Your water temps sound fine for such little root mass in the water. Ive had white roots pulled out of my cloner thats 80F. But you are just fighting fate running water temps that high.

I get slimy air hoses too. I wouldnt worry too much about that. Slimy roots, yes worry.

Kind of tough to tell whats wrong without pictures bud.

 

[NORMLnorm]

My bad... no, water started low PPM and have increased since I added the seedlings/plugs. But not adding any nutes. And I've only added a little h202, about 1 cup of 3% in about 6 gllns of water in res

Roots are just coming out of the netpots and very tips are brown. Sorry not a good pic

 

[NORMLnorm]

 

[firsttimeARE]

But why would adding h2o2 that releases,an oxygen molecule and forms water after affect ppms that much?

3% isnt meant to be used in hydro. Perhaps its the additives in that?

 

[NORMLnorm]

But why would adding h2o2 that releases,an oxygen molecule and forms water after affect ppms that much?

3% isnt meant to be used in hydro. Perhaps its the additives in that?

I just added h2o2 for the first time yesterday.

 

[DrBlaze]

How about this:

Change out water, give it RO, no h2o2 and feed it 150ppm or so. They need to be fed. They're showing what look like signs of deficiencies, but we would be able to see better if you had white light.

 

[mararules]

IMO no reason to start over, you've got 2 fine looking seedlings and one questionable one. It may be that the third pheno is a bit more susceptible to ph problems and got a bit twisted up, but I don't see any burning or discoloration, so I wouldn't worry too much. Just watch your ppms. If your tap is at 300 I would prob keep your overall ppm at 375 or so. Normally I would have them at around 150ppm, but I use RO.
They're probably going a bit slow atm due to nutrients being locked out when the ph crashed, and they may have been a bit shocked by the high ppm, but they should come back fine if you keep things steady. Just don't do too much to them, newer growers have a tendency to love their new plants to death.

Thanks for that, I'll stick to it and see how it looks in a week. And yes the last one does looks a bit odd

With a tap ppm that high id get it tested so you know whats in it.

Op: check online, your city or town may have that information available, a lot of water departments do.

Yeah that's a good idea, just found the results from my local water provider:





My interpretation is that I indeed have a lot of Calcium and Calcium Cabonate! What are your opinions on that? I'll denitely do some research later today to see what else I can find.

 

[rkymtnman]

What are your opinions on that?

here's my advice: i bought about 5 5gal water jugs and fill them up with RO at my local walmart. 37 cents a gallon. i use 15 a week so not a big expense. it totally eliminates your water as a source of a problem . the only thing in your res is what you put in.

 

[OldMedUser]

Hi guys,

I've started my first grow ever in a bubbleponics system! After germinated the seeds I planted them in rockwool and tried to follow everything I've learned and read.

It's a 13 gallons res for 3 plants in a 2.5x2.5x6 feet tent. Water top fed 24/7 and LED MarsHydro 600w 24/7. Temperature steady at around 68F.
A couple things that I think I did wrong already :b

- First 3 days I couldn't properly adjust PH, at one time it stood at ph 4 for more than 12 hours.
- On day one I've already used too much nutes I think, with ppm around 600. My tap water comes at 300 (think it has a lot of calcium or some shit)
- I could have invested on a cheap FLC light for first days I think, as the LED might have been to strong.

This leads me to believe that I have a slow grow so far, and on day 8 they look like this:

What do you guys think? Am I over reacting? I'm thinking now if I should simply start over again with new seeds or stick to this. Want to lear as much as possible

Thanks !

Are you sure your pH pen is working right? Low batteries can screw them up and are you calibrating it properly? With high ppm tap water like yours the pH should be high side so did you overshoot with the pH down?

Just what you need eh. More questions.

With tap at 300 ppm and the total being 600 that's 300 ppm of nutes and is a bit on the high side but should be OK. I start my clones at 300+ in DWC. If you notice any tip burn starting then remove a third or more of the nutes and replace with water to lower the ppm.

You should open that tinfoil some around the stem to get better airflow. The moist air coming up could cause stem rot otherwise. Good 2" in diameter at least.

You want better growth with less screwing around I'd get into using RO water. 90% of problems in hydro or soil/soilless growing can be attributed to crappy water. Fine outside where the extra minerals can get leached away with the rain and watering but builds up in reservoirs or pots causing nute locks and all sorts of other mayhem.

I found a great spot to download FREE POT BOOKS . I downloaded a grow bible first and got lots more. Books looks great and complete like the real ones I have here. No web site but just a page of links. Just right click on what you want and then "Save Link As" to download so they don't open first as many are 50+ megs. They got lots. Enjoy.

 

[OldMedUser]

Thanks for that, I'll stick to it and see how it looks in a week. And yes the last one does looks a bit odd

Yeah that's a good idea, just found the results from my local water provider:

View attachment 3879691

View attachment 3879693

My interpretation is that I indeed have a lot of Calcium and Calcium Cabonate! What are your opinions on that? I'll denitely do some research later today to see what else I can find.

It's not only the Calcium and Calcium Cabonate you need to think about but the other things.

The conductivity converted to ppm with this calculator comes out to 301 which you already know from testing.

You'll notice that things like iron and others are listed as ug/L which directly equates to ppm but the nitrates, sodium, chlorine and copper are all listed as mg/L which you have to multiply by 1000 to get ppm. Crazy high in all of those except copper.

As magnesium and sulfur aren't even listed but you have lots of calcium in the water I wouldn't use any CalMag but I would use some epsom salts to add both of those to your nutes. A tsp/gal should be enough.

If your are going to keep using the tap water keep track of how much you put in to top up as you go and do a complete nute change once you have put back as much water as your system takes in total to avoid toxic salts buildup in your plants.

More reasons you'd be better off using RO.

 

[Logan Burke]

Seedlings, when going from rockwool to hydroton/DWC based media, it normally takes my seedlings literally 1-2 weeks of slow, sluggish, if any growth before they resume growing new leaf mass, and soon after, the root mass becomes visible. I let my seedlings set under 50w compacts for 2 days, then put them under a 600w HID w/ MH bulb...so I don't think your light is an issue given it is far away from the canopy. One thing I have found though is that seedling growth slows greatly when temps drop below 70 degrees...they'll still grow, but that 75-78 degree zone they love. I add about 100ppms of nutrients to the res water until I can see roots, at which I add 50ppms a day everyday until I get brown leave tips...just my 2 cents.
P.S.- Invest in some Hydroguard....or spend a lot more time and money on H202 that dissolves from your system quickly and kills good bacteria that boost your roots ability to grow and expand. But hey, if it works for you, do it too it buddy Happy Growing!! Be patient, I believe your babies will pull through.

 

[mararules]

Are you sure your pH pen is working right? Low batteries can screw them up and are you calibrating it properly? With high ppm tap water like yours the pH should be high side so did you overshoot with the pH down?

Just what you need eh. More questions.

With tap at 300 ppm and the total being 600 that's 300 ppm of nutes and is a bit on the high side but should be OK. I start my clones at 300+ in DWC. If you notice any tip burn starting then remove a third or more of the nutes and replace with water to lower the ppm.

You should open that tinfoil some around the stem to get better airflow. The moist air coming up could cause stem rot otherwise. Good 2" in diameter at least.

You want better growth with less screwing around I'd get into using RO water. 90% of problems in hydro or soil/soilless growing can be attributed to crappy water. Fine outside where the extra minerals can get leached away with the rain and watering but builds up in reservoirs or pots causing nute locks and all sorts of other mayhem.

I found a great spot to download FREE POT BOOKS . I downloaded a grow bible first and got lots more. Books looks great and complete like the real ones I have here. No web site but just a page of links. Just right click on what you want and then "Save Link As" to download so they don't open first as many are 50+ megs. They got lots. Enjoy.

Yeah I believe it's calibrated, the thing is I was overduing the ph. I see from your other comment that I should really go to RO water. That's tricky though cause in the super makert nearby they don't sell it, only well water on bottles. Maybe I could invest in one of those equipment that you install on the tap to get RO?

 

[mararules]

The seeds have since grown a lot! The only action I did was to lower my ppm to 400 instead of the original 600.



Now actually there is another problem I think. As you can tell some leaves from the first and second picture are turning yellow and crispy. From what I have been reading one possible cause is defficiency in nutes? To test this theory I'm increasing my ppm from 400 to 450.

What are your thoughts?

 

[firsttimeARE]

Keep feed at 300 at this size (0.6EC is plenty if not a bit much)


These are at 1.1EC of feed or 550ppm just to give you some insight into how big a plant can get with such little nutrients. This is going into week 3 of flower under a 600w HPS