Merkel backs full-face veil ban

[HAF2]

German Chancellor Angela Merkel reiterates her position on burqas, telling her conservative CDU that "a full veil is inappropriate in our country" and "should be banned." (Reuters)

BERLIN — German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who last year opened the door to nearly 1 million mostly Muslim migrants, staked out a tough new stance on conservative Islam on Tuesday by making her first direct call for a widespread ban on “full veil” religious coverings.

Her backing could add Germany to the growing list of European nations imposing restrictions on Islamic coverings as debates sharpen across the continent over religious tolerance, perceived threats to European identity and possible attacks by Islamists.

It also could signal a pragmatic shift to the right for Merkel, who is seeking a fourth term as Germany’s leader. In the wake of Britain’s vote to leave the European Union and the U.S. election of Donald Trump, the tolerant Merkel became seen as among the last guardians of liberal democracy in the West.

But her handling of the migrant crisis — which hit her approval ratings and caused internal party dissent — is now seen as a critical weakness ahead of next year’s elections.

Her comments also came as German social media buzzed following the arrests of two asylum seekers in five days in connection with three sexual assaults, including the brutal rape and murder of a 19-year old medical student in the picturesque southern city of Freiburg. Right-wing politicians are openly blaming Merkel’s policy for what they decry as a migrant-fueled crime wave.

Yet Merkel on Tuesday issued a reminder that she still can play the conservative card.

Speaking to a cheering conference of her center-right Christian Democratic Union (CDU), she used her strongest language yet to back a ban on certain Islamic coverings first proposed by conservatives in her party. Some are calling for a law making it a regulatory offense for women to cover their faces in courtrooms, administrative buildings and schools, as well as while driving or attending demonstrations.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/world/europe/germanys-merkel-backs-sweeping-limits-on-full-face-islamic-coverings/2016/12/06/d5aaf012-bbb0-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html?client=safari

Thoughts?

 

[HAF2]

http://www.muhajabah.com/faceveil.htm

This is a very long explaination about face veils and why and when some women wear them.

I can't help myself from feeling this is a form of female oppression. But I don't think it should be enforced or banned. I really don't give a fuck what someone chooses to wear as long as they don't make me wear it.

 

[JaJaJaJa]

Full-face veils are the very definition of patriarchal oppression. They embody the belief that women are inherently sinful for their beauty, and they should cover up completely lest they tempt men. Just because these women have been culturally conditioned into accepting this doesn't make it any less of oppression. Personally I welcome laws like this. If the Islamic migrants wanna live in civilized countries they need to drop their stone age attitudes towards women.

 

[HAF2]

Full-face veils are the very definition of patriarchal oppression. They embody the belief that women are inherently sinful for their beauty, and they should cover up completely lest they tempt men. Just because these women have been culturally conditioned into accepting this doesn't make it any less of oppression. Personally I welcome laws like this. If the Islamic migrants wanna live in civilized countries they need to drop their stone age attitudes towards women.

If the women chose to wear it, shouldn't they be allowed?
You could not pay me enough to wear one. Fuck that. But if someone else wants to, through familial conditioning or maybe because they just have an unfortunate face; shouldn't they be allowed to do so?

 

[zeddd]

But if they're ugly im all for it

 

[zeddd]

The flip side is if they ban it a lot more women are going to get hit when they get home, for flirting, lose lose if you are a woman in islam

 

[JaJaJaJa]

If the women chose to wear it, shouldn't they be allowed?
You could not pay me enough to wear one. Fuck that. But if someone else wants to, through familial conditioning or maybe because they just have an unfortunate face; shouldn't they be allowed to do so?

Islamic traditions such as this need to go away if they're ever to assimilate into the modern world.

 

[zeddd]

Islamic traditions such as this need to go away if they're ever to assimilate into the modern world.

They are not instructed to assimilate, this is western fantasy
Quran (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great." Contemporary translations sometimes water down the word 'beat', but it is the same one used in verse 8:12 and clearly means 'to strike'.

Quran (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Allah telling Job to beat his wife (Tafsir).

 

[HAF2]

I wish I knew someone personally that wore this face veil so I could ask them. Anyone here have a personal story of such?

 

[HAF2]

They are not instructed to assimilate, this is western fantasy
Quran (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great." Contemporary translations sometimes water down the word 'beat', but it is the same one used in verse 8:12 and clearly means 'to strike'.

Quran (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Allah telling Job to beat his wife (Tafsir).

It's a far cry to say everyone beats their wives, reading into the Quran or not. Certain the bible talks about beating women. All these books were written by men in a time when that was the norm. Not all religious folks beat their wives.

 

[zeddd]

It's a far cry to say everyone beats their wives, reading into the Quran or not. Certain the bible talks about beating women. All these books were written by men in a time when that was the norm. Not all religious folks beat their wives.

Who said they did? In Islam you have to if the woman transgresses, no other religion claims God tells them to beat their wives

 

[HAF2]

Who said they did? In Islam you have to if the woman transgresses, no other religion claims God tells them to beat their wives

I thought you were implying that. My apologies.
I must be thinking of that movie the Boondock saints; where the woman at the begining quotes the bible about men being allowed to beat their wives as long as it wasn't bigger than the thumb. "Rule of thumb".
I know very little about the bible though so that could have just been an American folk song and I'd never know any better. Organized religion is not for me.

 

[Big_Lou]

I wish I knew someone personally that wore this face veil so I could ask them. Anyone here have a personal story of such?

My wife is Lebanese, her dad's side. They've long since abandoned a lot of the fairy tale nonsense through the generations, though. One of her uncles runs a burger joint and another is a 'boisterous' attorney, the kind you might see advertising on a billboard.

The generational transitions/successes are explained via this pictogram:

 

[Flaming Pie]

If the women chose to wear it, shouldn't they be allowed?
You could not pay me enough to wear one. Fuck that. But if someone else wants to, through familial conditioning or maybe because they just have an unfortunate face; shouldn't they be allowed to do so?

They do not choose to wear it. They are forced to wear it. Women who do not wear the hijab in families where it is traditional risk being shunned or beaten.

Women are not free in muslim societies. They are discouraged or banned from working, sports, and choosing their own husband.

 

[HAF2]

My wife is Lebanese, her dad's side. They've long since abandoned a lot of the fairy tale nonsense through the generations, though. One of her uncles runs a burger joint and another is a 'boisterous' attorney, the kind you might see advertising on a billboard.

The generational transitions/successes are explained via this pictogram:

View attachment 3847975

View attachment 3847981

She must know someone that chooses to wear a face veil.
I stand by my views that it's really none of my business what a person wears, if they choose to do that of their own volition. I just don't get it. Like many religious practices from all walks.
Why cut off the top of your penis? Why go to an uncomfortable room with off key singers that smells like old people and children's tears on Sunday? It all seems arbitrary to me but who am I to tell anyone else what to do; I just prefer it when they do the same.

They do not choose to wear it. They are forced to wear it. Women who do not wear the hijab in families where it is traditional risk being shunned or beaten.

Women are not free in muslim societies. They are discouraged or banned from working, sports, and choosing their own husband.

Some. I keep reading people's statements and they sound like all. I cannot fathom that all Muslims follow all these practices. I know of many who do not.

 

[Flaming Pie]

Some. I keep reading people's statements and they sound like all. I cannot fathom that all Muslims follow all these practices. I know of many who do not.

Not all. But the majority of Muslim countries do require some form of covering of the head. It is a bit different in america. In the middle east the culture and law is very prohibitive of women's rights.

 

[Big_Lou]

They do not choose to wear it. They are forced to wear it. Women who do not wear the hijab in families where it is traditional risk being shunned or beaten.

Women are not free in muslim societies. They are discouraged or banned from working, sports, and choosing their own husband.

As per usual, the red state racist hypocrite chimes in with ill-informed hogwash.

Poor Pie, opinions galore yet barely out of her 20s and has never experienced reality away from the 'Bible Belt'.....

 

[Flaming Pie]

As per usual, the red state racist hypocrite chimes in with ill-informed hogwash.

Poor Pie, opinions galore yet barely out of her 20s and has never experienced reality away from the 'Bible Belt'.....

I watch plenty of documentaries. Just finished one on girls in Pakistan enrolled in boxing. How their families reacted and they could be forced to quit at any moment. The girls (15 total) talk about why they practice in secret. Mainly they want to be out of the home and be able to defend themselves from men who would beat them for being different.

 

[HAF2]

Not all. But the majority of Muslim countries do require some form of covering of the head. It is a bit different in america. In the middle east the culture and law is very prohibitive of women's rights.

Covering of the head isn't up for debate anywhere I dont think. This article is about a country banning veils in public locations. Do you agree they should be banned? I don't think anyone should be forced to wear them. But is banning them the only way to stop this practicing of dehumanizing women by force?

 

[Big_Lou]

I watch plenty of documentaries.

This says it all, folks -- Pie: Authority on Arabic Cultural Affairs!

What's with that 'signature', Pie? We already know you are mentally enfeebled and disturbed, why add FUCKING INSANE to the roster?