REMOVING FAN LEAVES

[ruwtz]

Polling for specific opinion on the removal of fan leaves during flower as a means of improving bud quality and or final yield, whichever is your priority.

This topic is very divisive hence the poll, and so I would love to see some expanded opinions and shared practices.

I'm expanding the poll with a few specific questions for you all too:

Are those top fan leaves simply in the way of a good time?
Are buds better/bigger/fatter with improved exposure to light?
Do buds even photosynthesize?

- if yes to any of these, when do you remove? After stretch? Regularly throughout the cycle?

At what point is a large leaf an energy deficit in the sink/source balance of a plant?

 

[bryan oconner]

if a leaf is covering the fruit site the leaf needs to be removed or moved over . it will give you much better results . having all the fruits covered with leaves . will give loose not so great out come . this is my opinion experience .

 

[dargd1]

Polling for specific opinion on the removal of fan leaves during flower as a means of improving bud quality and or final yield, whichever is your priority.

This topic is very divisive hence the poll, and so I would love to see some expanded opinions and shared practices.

I'm expanding the poll with a few specific questions for you all too:

Are those top fan leaves simply in the way of a good time?
Are buds better/bigger/fatter with improved exposure to light?
Do buds even photosynthesize?

- if yes to any of these, when do you remove? After stretch? Regularly throughout the cycle?

At what point is a large leaf an energy deficit in the sink/source balance of a plant?

You forgot one: I don't know for sure but love terrorizing and butchering my plants they deserve it.

 

[ruwtz]

You forgot one: I don't know for sure but love terrorizing and butchering my plants they deserve it.

Lol, I was tempted but sincerely trying to keep the right side of a positive discussion here!

Basic plant botany says it is silly, but so much of what we can do as indoor growers deviates from standard "nature" (eg. CO2 at 1500ppm), so i'm genuinely interested in the diversity of opinion and experience on this topic.

 

[dargd1]

Lol, I was tempted but sincerely trying to keep the right side of a positive discussion here!

Basic plant botany says it is silly, but so much of what we can do as indoor growers deviates from standard "nature" (eg. CO2 at 1500ppm), so i'm genuinely interested in the diversity of opinion and experience on this topic.

I really have no clue for sure whether it is a good or bad idea. I am experimenting with my grows. All I can add is thinning selective leafs to open up colas to direct light and cleaning out the bottom 1/3 of my plants prior to flowering works for me.

 

[ruwtz]

I really have no clue for sure whether it is a good or bad idea. I am experimenting with my grows. All I can add is thinning selective leafs to open up colas to direct light and cleaning out the bottom 1/3 of my plants prior to flowering works for me.

Keeping the lower third barren is common sense approach to limited light penetration and avoiding popcorn flowers (encouraged by high P in bloom, as I understand it) and larfy branches. This is a given.

Removing top fans to "open up colas to direct light" is really what i'm after here, so can you elaborate here when you say it works for you?

FWIW i'm experimenting too, but its not exactly a controlled study. Is it ever??

 

[dargd1]

Keeping the lower third barren is common sense approach to limited light penetration and avoiding popcorn flowers (encouraged by high P in bloom, as I understand it) and larfy branches. This is a given.

Removing top fans to "open up colas to direct light" is really what i'm after here, so can you elaborate here when you say it works for you?

FWIW i'm experimenting too, but its not exactly a controlled study. Is it ever??

Mine is by no means a controlled study. When I have nice colas coming up but sitting very low in the bush and smothered with fans, I remove fans that are smothering it. It seems within a short reasonable amount of time the colas move up to the canopy quicker than just leaving them that way. Do I have scientific proof?...no....just my observation with my plants.

 

[dargd1]

Mine is by no means a controlled study. When I have nice colas coming up but sitting very low in the bush and smothered with fans, I remove fans that are smothering it. It seems within a short reasonable amount of time the colas move up to the canopy quicker than just leaving them that way. Do I have scientific proof?...no....just my observation with my plants.

i don't remove multiple fan leafs from the same stem. Normally it is a single fan leaf being removed from different stems.

 

[dargd1]

i don't remove multiple fan leafs from the same stem. Normally it is a single fan leaf being removed from different stems.

Most of the removing of fan leafs are done during veg, and very sparingly during first 2 weeks of flower.

 

[ruwtz]

Mine is by no means a controlled study. When I have nice colas coming up but sitting very low in the bush and smothered with fans, I remove fans that are smothering it. It seems within a short reasonable amount of time the colas move up to the canopy quicker than just leaving them that way. Do I have scientific proof?...no....just my observation with my plants.

I hear you, this is where branches will compete towards the light and shorties can be assisted in catching up etc. But surely this is simply explained as stopping one leaf or leaf sets from covering another, rather than exposing buds to light?

And can we say that bud, or all buds on that branch for that matter, are better for it in quality or yield?

This is where some will say it is better to tuck than to remove, so that complicates the discussion one more step.

We know a plant with ample foliage will have a positive systemic response to some defoliation (bugs or grazing animals in nature), but is this in new vegetative growth - typically undesired in flower - or bud production?

 

[ruwtz]

Most of the removing of fan leafs are done during veg, and very sparingly during first 2 weeks of flower.

Yeah, for me this is merely pruning and training and severity of this can be based around your total veg time. I go 6-8 weeks so ample time for all kinds of strain-dependent training techniques.

I suppose this discussion has to define between the terms defoliating and pruning in flower only.

 

[whitebb2727]

if a leaf is covering the fruit site the leaf needs to be removed or moved over . it will give you much better results . having all the fruits covered with leaves . will give loose not so great out come . this is my opinion experience .

I don't know, my tomatoes and pot both do fine with leaves blocking fruit.

I say leave them because leaves don't block sun, they use it.

 

[dargd1]

I hear you, this is where branches will compete towards the light and shorties can be assisted in catching up etc. But surely this is simply explained as stopping one leaf or leaf sets from covering another, rather than exposing buds to light?

And can we say that bud, or all buds on that branch for that matter, are better for it in quality or yield?

This is where some will say it is better to tuck than to remove, so that complicates the discussion one more step.

We know a plant with ample foliage will have a positive systemic response to some defoliation (bugs or grazing animals in nature), but is this in new vegetative growth (typically undesired in flower), or bud production?

I can't speak to what the difference would be had I not removed certain fan leafs. My strains that are not bushy I don't remove anything above the bottom 1/3rd. The extremely bushy strains like the White Widow I have in week 4 of flower is beyond bushy. I doubt she will skip a beat from removing a few fan leafs.....lol...I have seen some folks that do massive defoliation and I have watch some youtube videos on some growers that do it. I have no knowledge of or the desire to do that so I can't offer anything on it. Also I have a strain Crown Royal also in week 4 that has "HUGE" fan leafs that was overlapping and blocking all light below the canopy. After removing a couple of the I had several colas come to the top as well. Here is a photo of one of the fan leafs I removed. I have standard size hands not small:

 

[whitebb2727]

I'm just saying it doesn't make sense in my mind. You are cutting a fan(sun leaf) that is about 90% efficient at using the sun to expose a bud and sugar leaf that is about 5-10% efficient at using the sun.

If the plant doesn't need it, it will shed it.

 

[dargd1]

I'm just saying it doesn't make sense in my mind. You are cutting a fan(sun leaf) that is about 90% efficient at using the sun to expose a bud and sugar leaf that is about 5-10% efficient at using the sun.

If the plant doesn't need it, it will shed it.

Ya...but in the end what about the fact that I enjoy torturing and terrorizing my plants, that has to count for something?

 

[whitebb2727]

Ya...but in the end what about the fact that I enjoy torturing and terrorizing my plants, that has to count for something?

I get it. A lot of new growers cant leave their plants alone and in the end kill them.

Unless you are running clones side by side and at least 10-20 each then the outcome is meaningless.

Ill agree to trimming only if needed fro mold control and I don't need that anymore because of proper environment.

Its akin to shaving off your pubes and your pecker looking bigger. Its optical illusion.

 

[dargd1]

I get it. A lot of new growers cant leave their plants alone and in the end kill them.

Unless you are running clones side by side and at least 10-20 each then the outcome is meaningless.

Ill agree to trimming only if needed fro mold control and I don't need that anymore because of proper environment.

Its akin to shaving off your pubes and your pecker looking bigger. Its optical illusion.

Done that too...lol...I can assure you my plants are very healthy, doing extremely well and I enjoy the growing just as much if not more than the smoke.

 

[dargd1]

I get it. A lot of new growers cant leave their plants alone and in the end kill them.

Unless you are running clones side by side and at least 10-20 each then the outcome is meaningless.

Ill agree to trimming only if needed fro mold control and I don't need that anymore because of proper environment.

Its akin to shaving off your pubes and your pecker looking bigger. Its optical illusion.

As a side note. I grow for myself only. I am in no way concerned or desire massive yields. I grow 3 strains one plant of each per grow. I use it for medicinal reasons and to find strains I really enjoy. I am not a commercial grower. I don't grow to sell. I don't even grow to share...lol....So my perspective is probably going to be much different than most folks on this site.

 

[ruwtz]

I'm just saying it doesn't make sense in my mind. You are cutting a fan(sun leaf) that is about 90% efficient at using the sun to expose a bud and sugar leaf that is about 5-10% efficient at using the sun.

If the plant doesn't need it, it will shed it.

I agree with this logic.

And yet proponents of defoliation might say this leaf senescence can be anticipated before the leaf is less a source (producing photosynthate) and more of a sink (consuming more energy than it produces).

In other words, waiting for it to drop is inefficient use of the plants resources?

 

[whitebb2727]

I would suggest not altering your plants too much until you have a few good grows.