Perpetual grow advice

[Crentz]

Hi guys

I'm wanting to setup a perpetual grow and would love some feedback on my setup I'm planning at the moment.
I have looked through the forum but I believe every setup and circumstances are unique so here goes.

(GROW AREA)
Two grow tents 1.2 x 1.2 x 2.0 (metres) one for veg and one for flowering.

(LIGHTING)
1 x 400w hid for veg tent
1 x 600w hid for flowering tent

Small separate area for cloning with T5 lights, I have two 24w 2 foot lying around would this be enough?

(AIR CIRCULATION)
I plan on running only two inline fans between the two tents.
Intake fan wit Y connector into bottom of both tents and extractor with Y connector pulling hot air from both tents with carbon filter attached to the end.

My plan is to only have 4 vegging plants and 4 flowering plants at all times, 2 different strains and 4 plants for each strain at a time.
I've picked two strains with flowering times nearly the same to minimise confusion and try get it as simple as possible when it comes to feeding and so on, both flower between 45 to 50 days.
Critical + 2.0
Jack 47 (fast version)

Because of the flowering period I was planning to veg for 7 weeks and flowering for 7 weeks taking clones at 6 weeks from the two strongest strains as I don't want to keep mother plants as I won't have the room (I know it's a risk) then at least I have 1 week to see if the clones are holding up.
This would also give me an opportunity to do a full clean of the flowering tent when it comes to harvest.

Would a 400w hid be enough for 4 vegging plants for 7 weeks and do you guys see any flaws in this system why I might fail.

Any feedback is much appreciated

Thanks

 

[jonnyquest]

It sounds like you have it all thought through but in my opinion you should try to aim for 8 weeks flowering and harvest 1 plant every two weeks.
You would do well to have a mother so that every plant you grow is the same so as to avoid having to keep track of which clones flowered for how long etc.
I had a perpetual cupboard grow years ago which i kept up for over a year.
I harvested 1 plant, with an average of 6 ounces per plant, every 3 weeks with a total of 9 weeks flowering using a 400watt hps, what I liked most about it was the extra light useage since the plant that is being harvested doesn't have as much to compete with as the other two plants are always younger, allowing you to really maximise the use of space.

The only problem is the added light your plants get can only be truly utillised if you have the floorspace to use bigger pots and if you have 4 plants in your flower tent you might not be able to do this

 

[jonnyquest]

I started with some autos and some regular plants so as to use the space properly until you get the perpetual harvest dialed in

 

[Crentz]

Thanks for the reply Jonny,

So your saying stagger the whole grow, crack my seeds all two weeks apart so I have 4 plants at different stages of growth in each tent and harvest 1 plant every two weeks, never thought of this I'm just worried as it sounds like a lot of work.

Do you think the 4 foot by 4 foot flowering tent is to small for 4 large pots?
Never thought about throwing a couple of autos in to beef it up, thanks.

In regards to the mother plants I'm really limited on space so I don't think I could keep two mothers vegging all the time, maybe I'm biting off more than I can chew with two strains starting off.

 

[Porky101]

You need your flowering tent to be 4x (floor space) larger than your veg tent.

Remember the plants themselves get bigger in veg. If your rooms are the same size then you cannot utilise your space to its full potential.


Also, do you have negative pressure in your tent to control smell? The reason I ask is your tent looses some side space due to the sides being sucked in from the negative pressure meaning your total grow space is actually 10 percent less.

 

[Crentz]

Never considered the negative pressure tbh Porky, I'm now thinking one extractor fan probably won't be enough for both tents?

The last thing I want to do is squeeze plants into a tight space, I would much rather the plants get all the light they need.
Would 3 strains work out better with only 3 plants flowering at a time.

Thanks

 

[bravedave]

A couple things...
One good large enough fan can be used for exhaust.

No need to combine intakes unless you are doing so to reach once for some cool air source.

You cannot depend on your clones being serviceable in a week. Have you ever cloned before?

You cannot depend on a 7 week flower. If your strains are advertised for 42 days you will probably need 60.

Where are you planning on drying?

 

[bravedave]

It sounds like you have it all thought through but in my opinion you should try to aim for 8 weeks flowering and harvest 1 plant every two weeks.
You would do well to have a mother so that every plant you grow is the same so as to avoid having to keep track of which clones flowered for how long etc.
I had a perpetual cupboard grow years ago which i kept up for over a year.
I harvested 1 plant, with an average of 6 ounces per plant, every 3 weeks with a total of 9 weeks flowering using a 400watt hps, what I liked most about it was the extra light useage since the plant that is being harvested doesn't have as much to compete with as the other two plants are always younger, allowing you to really maximise the use of space.

The only problem is the added light your plants get can only be truly utillised if you have the floorspace to use bigger pots and if you have 4 plants in your flower tent you might not be able to do this

So, you get 6 zips per plant in 63 days under a 400w? What magical strain were you running?

 

[Crentz]

Hi Dave

I have clone plants before but never weed, I understand it takes maybe 14 days if not longer sometimes for them to take root properly.
I'm planning on drying in an average sized closet with fan to keep the air circulating.

What I'm looking for is experienced guys to tell me what would be the best way forward for me regarding the info I have given on my setup above, ideally I would like two strains going at the same time but I don't think this is possible due to limited space and not being able to keep two mothers going.
Am I better off sticking to one strain and keeping just one mother with a total of 3 plants flowering at one given time? And maybe just throw in the odd auto.
I'd like to produce a day and night smoke.

Thanks for the info, this is why I'm here so I don't screw up half way through my grow

 

[bravedave]

Hi Dave

I have clone plants before but never weed, I understand it takes maybe 14 days if not longer sometimes for them to take root properly.
I'm planning on drying in an average sized closet with fan to keep the air circulating.

What I'm looking for is experienced guys to tell me what would be the best way forward for me regarding the info I have given on my setup above, ideally I would like two strains going at the same time but I don't think this is possible due to limited space and not being able to keep two mothers going.
Am I better off sticking to one strain and keeping just one mother with a total of 3 plants flowering at one given time? And maybe just throw in the odd auto.
I'd like to produce a day and night smoke.

Thanks for the info, this is why I'm here so I don't screw up half way through my grow

I was handed 8 clones of a couple old classic strains in May 2014 without anything but flower and vegetable knowledge. I still run those same strains. I work with 1 room with a clone/veg start cabinet enclosed. I currently get 3 harvests in a little less than a year. I also dry in that same room. I could push for 4 but I already grow more than I need as I gift but do not sell. Sure you can do two strains. 4 plants will fill things up, 2 or 3, you might find easier to deal with. Bottom line is your grow will evolve with your experience.

 

[mo841]

When I ran rooms I had 4x4 flower room running two 600 hps.(5 plants) Less than half that size for veg under a150 hps.

Used an aero cloner in my veg area till they rooted, then removed the cloner and grew the plants out. Flower was usually 9 weeks.

Never had to worry about clones not taking with the cloner I had but I always took more than I needed. It was easier on me to just harvest all my plants every 9-10 weeks than trying to do a plant every week or what ever.

By the time flowering was over my plants in veg were ready to flower and ive had clones going for at least a week. It worked out pretty well.

There is 50 differant ways to do it, this is just how I went about it.

 

[Dr. Who]

Hi Dave

I have clone plants before but never weed, I understand it takes maybe 14 days if not longer sometimes for them to take root properly.
I'm planning on drying in an average sized closet with fan to keep the air circulating.

What I'm looking for is experienced guys to tell me what would be the best way forward for me regarding the info I have given on my setup above, ideally I would like two strains going at the same time but I don't think this is possible due to limited space and not being able to keep two mothers going.
Am I better off sticking to one strain and keeping just one mother with a total of 3 plants flowering at one given time? And maybe just throw in the odd auto.
I'd like to produce a day and night smoke.

Thanks for the info, this is why I'm here so I don't screw up half way through my grow

I never run mothers! They take up space and use resources best used by plants that "return".

I simply take clones from trimming before the plants are set to bloom. Branching removed by "lollypopping" or "suckers" from upper branching works great.

Like many have said - You can't count days in a bloom period. It just doesn't work that way! I'm so tired of how so many come on here and other sites and say, - "I ran 60 days and chopped" , or "My plants have run x amount of days...Are they done?"
I have, in all my years. Never counted any "days in bloom"! When I did actually pay a bit of attention to "Breeders reports". They AVERAGED around 2 weeks off (short)!
I feel the BIGGEST mistake make by almost every novice to even some experienced growers is, they harvest too soon!
The point of harvest (for top quality and potency) is something you have to learn! It's a package that has several factors in it. Are the calyx's swollen and have the pistils receded into them? Now look at the trich's, getting some ambers on the buds?

I'm not going to say more on that here - It's up to you to research and figure out what you want for that. - As long as you've run at least a week to 10 days over any "report", you should be looking daily for the sweet spot to harvest.

If I were you. I might actually look to a 1K in the bloom tent! Wide spectral set bulbs in a cpl of T5 8's or a 600 and turn the watts up and down for the veg. With the 1K, you can look at dual arc bulbs - a single bulb with a 600 HPS and a 400HM arc in one single tube! SPECTRAL advantage! Better, more positive, timely finishing in bloom (better quality too).

You can get duals for less then name brand bulbs at 1000 bulbs .com

https://www.1000bulbs.com/search/?q=1K+dual+arc+grow+bulb

A word on hoods.
#1: Square hoods for square tents - The best way to go! Search for "BlockBuster 6" - Best square hood out there! At least search for square hoods! If you use a rectangle hood - You have inefficient light spreads and are wasting power.

#2: Your going to have to run cooling hoods in tents.

AC! Get your head wrapped around it as a cost NOW! You will need it!

Where are you placing the tents? Room? Garage? Stand along building? Basement? I'm trying to understand how your going to exhaust the "used" air, and where the fresh is coming from.

You might note that once you start - you'll want to expand! Leave room to...

Anyway, my thoughts on it.

 

[Crentz]

Thanks guys really appreciate you talking the time to help

I might just run one strain for now and get a feel it then tweak the times as needed clones/veg time.

The light I have for the veg tent has a dimmable ballast 600 to 250w, I was aiming for the 400w because of high electricity rates in my area and I didn't want a sudden surge in power usage, to correct this I'm going to switch electricity suppliers before I start the perpetual grow so they have nothing to compare my previous usage to.
I was contemplating going down the T5 route for the veg room but they need a lot of adjusting and screwing around plus tbh I could do with the heat the hid lamps provide (saves me running a heater at times)
I will definitely look into the square hood.
Air will be exhausted through garage wall to outside with carbon filter and intake is also coming from outside with bug mesh attached.

Think I will hang on to a mother for the first couple of runs till I get a good feel for cloning and see how it goes from there, I don't plan on ever expanding as I think my setup should yield more than enough for my needs plus I just don't have the room.

After thinking I had my setup sorted I'm left with a lot to think about.

Thanks

 

[jonnyquest]

So, you get 6 zips per plant in 63 days under a 400w? What magical strain were you running?

That's exactly right, with one plant harvested every three weeks, that was the average I eventually achieved mind you, it was not as fruitful from the start. The magic strain was blue mystic by royal queen

 

[jonnyquest]

Thanks for the reply Jonny,

So your saying stagger the whole grow, crack my seeds all two weeks apart so I have 4 plants at different stages of growth in each tent and harvest 1 plant every two weeks, never thought of this I'm just worried as it sounds like a lot of work.

Do you think the 4 foot by 4 foot flowering tent is to small for 4 large pots?
Never thought about throwing a couple of autos in to beef it up, thanks.

In regards to the mother plants I'm really limited on space so I don't think I could keep two mothers vegging all the time, maybe I'm biting off more than I can chew with two strains starting off.

Yes you definatly want to stagger your plants, it is more work but that is the point of running a perpetual grow, so you have a perpetual harvest and as I said before it allows you to maximise yeild by efficient use of light and space. Otherwise all your talking about it having a separate veg and flower room.

Like I say it takes a little while to dial in especially as it works best if you are using clones from the same mother which you need to find. but if you plan it well and know exactly how long your plant will be in flower (this can only be achieved through observation) then it is in my opinion the most efficient way to grow in limited space

 

[Crentz]

Can't wait to get stuck in, think maybe I'm over thinking it a bit and need to see what works.

 

[jonnyquest]

Can't wait to get stuck in, think maybe I'm over thinking it a bit and need to see what works.

Is this also your first grow?

 

[Crentz]

Is this also your first grow?

No man I've grown a few single plants over the years but nothing major, this whole perpetual thing just has my head fried as I'm not the most organised person.
Also this will be my first half decent setup regarding equipment.
I have one single one going now from bag seed not sure what it is though.

 

[bravedave]

I never run mothers! They take up space and use resources best used by plants that "return".

I simply take clones from trimming before the plants are set to bloom. Branching removed by "lollypopping" or "suckers" from upper branching works great.

Like many have said - You can't count days in a bloom period. It just doesn't work that way! I'm so tired of how so many come on here and other sites and say, - "I ran 60 days and chopped" , or "My plants have run x amount of days...Are they done?"
I have, in all my years. Never counted any "days in bloom"! When I did actually pay a bit of attention to "Breeders reports". They AVERAGED around 2 weeks off (short)!
I feel the BIGGEST mistake make by almost every novice to even some experienced growers is, they harvest too soon!
The point of harvest (for top quality and potency) is something you have to learn! It's a package that has several factors in it. Are the calyx's swollen and have the pistils receded into them? Now look at the trich's, getting some ambers on the buds?

I'm not going to say more on that here - It's up to you to research and figure out what you want for that. - As long as you've run at least a week to 10 days over any "report", you should be looking daily for the sweet spot to harvest.

If I were you. I might actually look to a 1K in the bloom tent! Wide spectral set bulbs in a cpl of T5 8's or a 600 and turn the watts up and down for the veg. With the 1K, you can look at dual arc bulbs - a single bulb with a 600 HPS and a 400HM arc in one single tube! SPECTRAL advantage! Better, more positive, timely finishing in bloom (better quality too).

You can get duals for less then name brand bulbs at 1000 bulbs .com

https://www.1000bulbs.com/search/?q=1K+dual+arc+grow+bulb

A word on hoods.
#1: Square hoods for square tents - The best way to go! Search for "BlockBuster 6" - Best square hood out there! At least search for square hoods! If you use a rectangle hood - You have inefficient light spreads and are wasting power.

#2: Your going to have to run cooling hoods in tents.

AC! Get your head wrapped around it as a cost NOW! You will need it!

Where are you placing the tents? Room? Garage? Stand along building? Basement? I'm trying to understand how your going to exhaust the "used" air, and where the fresh is coming from.

You might note that once you start - you'll want to expand! Leave room to...

Anyway, my thoughts on it.

My setup requires mothers because my vegging starts in the 2' by 4' cloning cabinet which is inside the only room. If I cloned just before I flipped they would outgrow the cabinet before the grow ahead of it was out of the way. Works for me...would rather have a couple rooms.

 

[bravedave]

That's exactly right, with one plant harvested every three weeks, that was the average I eventually achieved mind you, it was not as fruitful from the start. The magic strain was blue mystic by royal queen

Pretty awesome then. Without scrogging, or a long veg time with a bunch of topping, or something similar...and a cupboard grow...almost unbelievable.
...but can you call something that only lasted a year, "perpetual"? ...just giving you shit. :/