Have any of you DIY COB Growers finished a crop under 1000W DE HPS? - POLL

[captainmorgan]

Well you have to remember the people saying that don't even have a cob fixture to compare too. So they don't know. I tried explaining to a guy couple pages back about dropping wattage and gaining foot print but he said 7000 dollars a year isn't a big savings to bigger scale gardeners. Then shit broke loose and i think it led to all what were talking about tonight.

People get dug in defending their decisions. I've actually recommended staying with HPS to certain people under certain circumstances or maybe going CMH. There's no right answer to fit everyone but saying it doesn't make sense financially is wrong in most cases,people can be short sighted when it comes to costs.

 

[ttystikk]

Not trying to knock your yield at all... 1.75 is awesome for that short of veg. Props for that!

Just thinking out loud..
If you had a better light source what could you pull?
That was the question that drove me to building DIY lights.

What drove me to COB LED was the rude shock of discovering my '860W' lamps were actually devouring 1100W apiece from the wall!

I'd never been happy with the quantity of light they delivered, and that added to my frustration; here I am paying the outrageous power bill and yet I'm still not getting what I should be?

That was when I hatched a plan to match, watt for watt, the old draw with COB LED, a tech I'd stumbled upon in the threads here last summer. The system came together and is now on its maiden voyage, and so we shall see what the head to head difference really is.

I'll likely need a few runs to get things like nutrient mix and strength sorted out, and by then will have a dataset worth comparing.

 

[BOBBY_G]

I get a little tired of hearing the benefits are not worth the extra costs. Every upgrade I've made in lighting source with LED has paid for it self in a single grow with the extra yield.

people continually tell me im crazy that LED tech can pay for itself in weeks.....
assuming you are heat or power limited, and pushing all you can out of a space, its quite easy to cover the cost of your gear in weeks with a very attainable increase in yield, on the order of 15-30%

 

[Stephenj37826]

Im only vegging my plants for 24 days bro. If you guys took that into consideration you'd realize that I'm doing just fine. And i think you are right, if i took a 800 watt cob unit and nailed a 5x5 foot print id do 2 pounds an 800 watt fixture with the same veg time. Im not in this thread to see who's dick is bigger, I'm really not.

Mongo if you are doing that right now with hps in a 4x4 you will easily do what your going for with 800 watts in a 5x5..... Actually you'll do much better. All things being equal to what you are currently doing I can see you hitting 2.5+ .....
We should get together and I will help you build this light we are talking about.

 

[Trippyness]

Yeah they get nasty really quick if you try to debate based on facts rather than fiction.


It's very doable to detect what possibly did and did not cause the coloring based on pics, it's not just eyeballs you need for that though, it requires more than half a brain, relevant knowledge, experience, and intellectual honesty to process the images with some accuracy - things not in your arsenal. Dead flesh, wtf...


Probably often a factor but not necessarily cold in that specific example, the top leaves look crispy even. Below is the result of a recently cold induced purpling plant. These are lower buds, top is hard to keep cold with hps above it... It's cannalope haze, have been growing it for years, normally doesn't get any color and took very low temps (as low as 16c). Growing afghan crosses with a plant near the intake turning purple year after year makes it easy to observe how it progresses.
View attachment 3632885 View attachment 3632895
Cold induced purple is also not always the same process as cold induced reduction of photosynthesis and metabolism causing premature yellowing and synthesis of anthocyanin with color as a result. One fucks up the plant (similar to 'misfeeding'), the other doesn't.

Whatever the exact cause(s) in GGs example, the leds are obviously directly or indirectly to blame and gg could possibly do his customers a favor solving the problem that is causing reduction in photosynthesis. Ironic really, as usual, because led technology is very suitable for growing healthy colored plants including bud to the max (in terms of color anyway...), but instead is misused with still color as a result but as an obvious symptom of a underlying problem.

Indeed, all of what your saying makes perfect sense. Seems all the COB growers refuse to have a educated debate.
I

These are the results from my very first grow under this setup. I personally believe that there is for improvement via better training.

light tech: DIY 50x Bridgelux Vero 29 Ver. 2/ Ledil Angelina 90 deg Reflector
distance from canopy: 14" - 18"
wattage: 3125 Watts (50x Vero 29 @ 1.4A)
SF and layout: 4.5' x 13.5' (61 sq ft)
strain: mostly Snow Cap and a few 707 Headband
yield: 9.83 lbs (4452g)
GPW: 1.42
G/SF: 72.98
wall W/SF: 51.22
estimated PAR W/SF: ??? 850-1050 PPFD with Apogee PAR Meter

Notes: Plants were double trellised scrog and NOTdefoliated.
Organic soil in 15 gal smart pots. Nectar for the Gods Nutrient's.

This same light setup can be made using 2300w for the same price I paid 9 months ago, with current tech.

Great yield. Like I said COBS work amazing for smaller environments.
They however are not good for commercial warehouses.
If running smaller enviornments, 50 x 50 or smaller COBS are the way to go no doubt.
I am not against cobs and applaud your grow.
Also how long of veg and how many plants?

 

[Trippyness]

I think raising the "might have to heat the warehouse" argument is lunacy, misrepresented as a defect when it is actually a benefit.

One would only gain more control over the environment; As one's lighting becomes more efficient there is less of a difference to compensate for via HVAC.

Paper bags, think your way out of them.

@Rahz I am agreeing with you, I think. I'm not sure I understand your post completely, but I think we're on the same page.

Please do back up your claims. Again I am here to get the correct info, but from the numbers. Its just more expensive to run cobs in a commercial setting. Smaller grows will benefit for sure.

 

[Michael Huntherz]

Please do back up your claims. Again I am here to get the correct info, but from the numbers. Its just more expensive to run cobs in a commercial setting. Smaller grows will benefit for sure.

I don't feel a need to support anything I say here, especially not to you.

A bunch of growers who have actually grown with COBs, unlike myself, have posted a bunch of data already. Your self-enforced ignorance is your own problem to solve. I made a post about why that's true, and I even quoted it in a follow-up post. You clearly did not read it with the intent of comprehension, you read it with the intent of picking it apart.

Like it says in my signature, I can read teh graphs. You either can't or you refuse to.

I suggest you improve your reading comprehension in order that you might be able to comprehend the evidence already presented, instead of asking for more evidence. You are willfully ignoring extant data, why would I take the effort to post more data for you to ignore? (Don't answer that, just think about it.)

Okay, damn it...

Here's something to think about: The HID units currently heating this hypothetical warehouse, which you have claimed would require supplemental heat when HID units are replaced by COBs, are not designed for heating the air. That's right, HID is not purpose-built as an HVAC heating system.

Do you know what was purposefully built as an HVAC system?
The HVAC system.

There's my support for my claim. Using an efficient HVAC system (Note that any HVAC will be more efficient and controllable than an HPS bulb and ballast, please.) to heat the building will reduce your heating costs compared to a bunch of HID lights. The more control the HVAC system has of the ambient air temperature the lower the overall cost will become.

You offered zero support for your initial claim, which I was refuting, by the way.

I've now supported my claim, try refuting it. Best of luck.

 

[sixstring2112]

i dont even get this whole arguement about led and heating buildings lol.heating is always way cheaper than cooling,not to mention most the newer minisplit a/c systems have heat built in as well.but i do wish the guy who said he had 3100w of cobs in one spot pulling 1.5gpw or whatever at least posted some pics.
oh if you want heat in your warehouse grow just hang a few mars 1600w panels in there and that bitch will heat right up for ya's just like hps lol.

 

[ttystikk]

I get a little tired of hearing the benefits are not worth the extra costs. Every upgrade I've made in lighting source with LED has paid for it self in a single grow with the extra yield.

If this is NOT the case with a crop worth several thousand dollars a pound, I'd say the problem lies somewhere besides the lighting! People hate to admit they fucked up or just suck at growing, lol

 

[ttystikk]

No i have not finished harvest under cobs. The 10 grand i was speaking of is i dropped 10 grand on Cree Inc stocks. So basically I'm one of the owners.

Lol, dude. Buy some of their chips and grow with them; it's a MUCH better investment!

...and don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, we already had the financial analyst's conversation. In fact, on my own due diligence, I discovered that Cree's total sales amount to about $3B/yr. That's small enough that a billion dollars a year in sales to the indoor horticultural market would mean a huge boost in their sales, enough that it would make good fiscal sense for them to dedicate plenty of time, effort and resources to fulfilling our specific needs.

Next earnings call, you might share that idea.

 

[cdgmoney250]

....but i do wish the guy who said he had 3100w of cobs in one spot pulling 1.5gpw or whatever at least posted some pics...

Here you go...















Snow Cap

 

[cdgmoney250]

Pretty much what most of it looked like... Far from a perfect round with LOTs of room for improvement with both quality and yield.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

WOW^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^..............................congrats grower

 

[Michael Huntherz]

Pretty much what most of it looked like... Far from a perfect round with LOTs of room for improvement with both quality and yield.

View attachment 3633386

Nice work.
edit: lol, hate on that.

 

[Michael Huntherz]

I discovered that Cree's total sales amount to about $3B/yr. That's small enough that a billion dollars a year in sales to the indoor horticultural market would mean a huge boost in their sales, enough that it would make good fiscal sense for them to dedicate plenty of time, effort and resources to fulfilling our specific needs.

Next earnings call, you might share that idea.

Damn your Vulcan logic!

 

[ttystikk]

Indeed, all of what your saying makes perfect sense. Seems all the COB growers refuse to have a educated debate.
I

Great yield. Like I said COBS work amazing for smaller environments.
They however are not good for commercial warehouses.
If running smaller enviornments, 50 x 50 or smaller COBS are the way to go no doubt.
I am not against cobs and applaud your grow.
Also how long of veg and how many plants?

Interesting hypothesis.
You keep asking people to prove their side, sooooooooo
Where's YOUR evidence?

Damn your Vulcan logic!

 

[OneHitDone]

Do any of you have an example of a non-scrog cob grow? Similar to Subcool's quadrant approach?
Are cobs best suited to scrog growing?

 

[Trippyness]

I don't feel a need to support anything I say here, especially not to you.

A bunch of growers who have actually grown with COBs, unlike myself, have posted a bunch of data already. Your self-enforced ignorance is your own problem to solve. I made a post about why that's true, and I even quoted it in a follow-up post. You clearly did not read it with the intent of comprehension, you read it with the intent of picking it apart.

Like it says in my signature, I can read teh graphs. You either can't or you refuse to.

I suggest you improve your reading comprehension in order that you might be able to comprehend the evidence already presented, instead of asking for more evidence. You are willfully ignoring extant data, why would I take the effort to post more data for you to ignore? (Don't answer that, just think about it.)

Okay, damn it...

Here's something to think about: The HID units currently heating this hypothetical warehouse, which you have claimed would require supplemental heat when HID units are replaced by COBs, are not designed for heating the air. That's right, HID is not purpose-built as an HVAC heating system.

Do you know what was purposefully built as an HVAC system?
The HVAC system.

There's my support for my claim. Using an efficient HVAC system (Note that any HVAC will be more efficient and controllable than an HPS bulb and ballast, please.) to heat the building will reduce your heating costs compared to a bunch of HID lights. The more control the HVAC system has of the ambient air temperature the lower the overall cost will become.

You offered zero support for your initial claim, which I was refuting, by the way.

I've now supported my claim, try refuting it. Best of luck.

The main point of this debate is support your claims. If your not gong to do that there is no point in being here.
Again, COBS are efficient, but the price is 2-3x a DE with the same yield. Sure you spend some on HVAC, but with COB you spend on large scale heating. Evens itself out.
Have no ides how you cannot run numbers.

 

[Trippyness]

Do any of you have an example of a non-scrog cob grow? Similar to Subcool's quadrant approach?
Are cobs best suited to scrog growing?

COBS are for sure better for SCROG, they work with medium tress, but scrog is best.
They jut are not worth the small savings over time via ROI

 

[Trippyness]

Interesting hypothesis.
You keep asking people to prove their side, sooooooooo
Where's YOUR evidence?

My numbers are in a post a few pages back.
I will come up with a much more detailed numbers based upon electricity HVAC, heating for both sides and we will see how close they are. Seems most of you COB growers refuse to supply any proof other than GreenGene.
Like I said, COBS are great, just not worth the price at all for large grows.