Is A Mars II 400 Worth a Crap?

[HockeyBeard]

It's funny the one sunder the kessils, which are running osram and cree, seems to be doing the best in those pics from the looks of it.


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I really like what my Kessil's produce quality wise, they just don't yield that great, which is why I chose to beef out my room with more COB.

 

[kmog33]

COBs are actually already being used by commercial companies.
The same cobs inside the companies that sell Cree CXB fixtures, the same COBs people use in their DIY panels.

The biggest benefit from LEDs in commercial applications is not the lifespan or the reduced electricity cost.
It's the fact that commercial companies can replace 20000 watts of HID lighting with 20000 Watts of LED lighting and have an increase in harvest = more profit.
It allows you to harvest more from the same amount of area.
50% increase in MJ harvest is far more profitable than 50% reduction in electricity costs.

Though increase in harvest is less important for people who only grow for themselves/don't sell their stuff

This is how I understand it as well. None of the commercial growers that are successful with their big ops care much about reducing power, but if they can use the same power and yield twice as much...

With a home setup of around 400 watts from a 600 watt hid setup saves you Around $20 a month if you're running it 24 hours, even less on 12/12 maybe 12-15 bucks. In order to make up for the upfront cost in electricity savings you would be waiting a while and in the cob game right now, you'll probably also want to be upgrading to whatever the next gen cobs are.


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[kmog33]

I really like what my Kessil's produce quality wise, they just don't yield that great, which is why I chose to beef out my room with more COB.

Kessils are amazing lights. I have them around for my reef tanks, never used them for bud, but they use quality parts for sure. And they're not incredibly cheap. Are you running the 150s?


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[Siino Gardens]

COBs are actually already being used by commercial companies.
The same cobs inside the companies that sell Cree CXB fixtures, the same COBs people use in their DIY panels.

The biggest benefit from LEDs in commercial applications is not the lifespan or the reduced electricity cost.
It's the fact that commercial companies can replace 20000 watts of HID lighting with 20000 Watts of LED lighting and have an increase in harvest = more profit.
It allows you to harvest more from the same amount of area.
50% increase in MJ harvest is far more profitable than 50% reduction in electricity costs.

Though increase in harvest is less important for people who only grow for themselves/don't sell their stuff

You do realize that HPS bulbs need replacing far more often than LED panels? I used to replace them after every 2-3 cycles and using LEDs I haven't replaced in 3 years.... so the lifespan thing is something to it and does help save money over time.

 

[HockeyBeard]

Kessils are amazing lights. I have them around for my reef tanks, never used them for bud, but they use quality parts for sure. And they're not incredibly cheap. Are you running the 150s?


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4 H350 and 6 H150

 

[HockeyBeard]

You do realize that HPS bulbs need replacing far more often than LED panels? I used to replace them after every 2-3 cycles and using LEDs I haven't replaced in 3 years.... so the lifespan thing is something to it and does help save money over time.

Not to mention the lack of light depreciation you see with HPS, the ability to be dimmed safely without harming the lamp, and the slightly better spectrum.

 

[Siino Gardens]

only about 2.5k USD per panel. vs a 500 dollar panel.

I understand the US likes to have a "bigger" looking gun, but just buy like.. 5 mars for the price of an american assembled. Yield a bit more

One thing to think about is heat though, the 5 mars panels throw off a shit ton of heat. I have some the more expensive panels usually dissipate the heat better or however you say it.

 

[kmog33]

4 H350 and 6 H150

That's badass I wish I had a few more for my corals lol. They love them.


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[HockeyBeard]

One thing to think about is heat though, the 5 mars panels throw off a shit ton of heat. I have some the more expensive panels usually dissipate the heat better or however you say it.

MARS Panels are LESS Efficient than HPS, draw a third less than what they advertise, use sub-par parts and drivers, have terrible PAR outside the initial footprint.

 

[frica]

You do realize that HPS bulbs need replacing far more often than LED panels? I used to replace them after every 2-3 cycles and using LEDs I haven't replaced in 3 years.... so the lifespan thing is something to it and does help save money over time.

Give me a citation where I said that lifespan is not a benefit.

I said that increased harvest with similar wattage is the biggest benefit, not that it's the only benefit.
Learn to read.

 

[kmog33]

You do realize that HPS bulbs need replacing far more often than LED panels? I used to replace them after every 2-3 cycles and using LEDs I haven't replaced in 3 years.... so the lifespan thing is something to it and does help save money over time.

This depends on how you are running the LEDs lol. Also, I replaced my hps bulbs every harvest for $25. So I'm out about $100 a year on hps bulbs. The thing is, in the year I've been using cobs, I've spent $300 on cob arrays. That's three years of hps replacements so I don't really see the benefit there, also I will probably be upgrading my cobs well before 3 years happens as I enjoy building these lights and each gain in efficiency.

But ime the argument in a home grow(commercial is totally different and the benefit of not swapping bulbs would be massive) that the bulb cost of hps would be reimbursed by lifetime of LEDs is moot. We spend too much on them and replace them too often for this argument to make sense IMO.

I get more, better quality nug per watt than I do with hps, that's where I see the payoff. Plus good pictures are easier to take for he testers I run. Which I'm sure makes the breeders happier than they were with hps streaks and all that lol.


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[kmog33]

Give me a citation where I said that lifespan is not a benefit.

I said that increased harvest with similar wattage is the biggest benefit, not that it's the only benefit.
Learn to read.

Lifespan is a benefit about 0% of us will actually see out of investing in cob LEDs.


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[frica]

Lifespan is a benefit about 0% of us will actually see out of investing in cob LEDs.
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Probably yea.

DIY becomes addicting so COBs are being replaced every time they increase efficiency by 1%

 

[kmog33]

Probably yea.

DIY becomes addicting so COBs are being replaced every time they increase efficiency by 1%

I think the problem is they're shooting up around 20% at a time. If it was only one percent, we'd probably sit on them longer before upgrading.

They're also borderlining affordable at this point.


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[GreenSanta]

It's funny the one sunder the kessils, which are running osram and cree, seems to be doing the best in those pics from the looks of it.


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plants are always moving around in my grow, everything is perpetual, I dont raise or lower the lights I move the plants hehe...

the kessil is the most useless light out of the lot. The driver on one of them 2 kessil died recently right around the 3-4 years mark... the light still works though so I might buy another driver if I can find one. I like the kessil to finish up my plants it purples them up nicely, or for use as sidelighting.

The plant that seems to be under the kessil on the pictures was actually away from it and that plant yielded almost half a pound, lots of light on it though. under the AF600s for the majority and finished it up near the kessil with w90s side lighting and also blurple sidelighting from an old fero.

 

[GreenSanta]

I really like what my Kessil's produce quality wise, they just don't yield that great, which is why I chose to beef out my room with more COB.

exactly what I think, I have the h350 s

 

[kmog33]

plants are always moving around in my grow, everything is perpetual, I dont raise or lower the lights I move the plants hehe...

the kessil is the most useless light out of the lot. The driver on one of them 2 kessil died recently right around the 3-4 years mark... the light still works though so I might buy another driver if I can find one. I like the kessil to finish up my plants it purples them up nicely, or for use as sidelighting.

The plant that seems to be under the kessil on the pictures was actually away from it and that plant yielded almost half a pound, lots of light on it though. under the AF600s for the majority and finished it up near the kessil with w90s side lighting and also blurple sidelighting from an old fero.

Makes sense. As I said I use them for corals not for plants. Lol. They're Greta lights though. What's your total watt pull from the wall?


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[GreenSanta]

This depends on how you are running the LEDs lol. Also, I replaced my hps bulbs every harvest for $25. So I'm out about $100 a year on hps bulbs. The thing is, in the year I've been using cobs, I've spent $300 on cob arrays. That's three years of hps replacements so I don't really see the benefit there, also I will probably be upgrading my cobs well before 3 years happens as I enjoy building these lights and each gain in efficiency.

But ime the argument in a home grow(commercial is totally different and the benefit of not swapping bulbs would be massive) that the bulb cost of hps would be reimbursed by lifetime of LEDs is moot. We spend too much on them and replace them too often for this argument to make sense IMO.

I get more, better quality nug per watt than I do with hps, that's where I see the payoff. Plus good pictures are easier to take for he testers I run. Which I'm sure makes the breeders happier than they were with hps streaks and all that lol.


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I sure hope my cobs last over 10 years of 12\12, thats the point. TOP of the line COBs of today will grow the same great weed 10 years down the road why would you upgrade so soon? like I said earlier, my af600s are well over 3 years old now and they are still rocking and should be rocking many more years. Still grows fire weed.

 

[GreenSanta]

Makes sense. As I said I use them for corals not for plants. Lol. They're Greta lights though. What's your total watt pull from the wall?


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at this point probably around 2500 watts in the bud room.

 

[GreenSanta]

This is how I understand it as well. None of the commercial growers that are successful with their big ops care much about reducing power, but if they can use the same power and yield twice as much...

With a home setup of around 400 watts from a 600 watt hid setup saves you Around $20 a month if you're running it 24 hours, even less on 12/12 maybe 12-15 bucks. In order to make up for the upfront cost in electricity savings you would be waiting a while and in the cob game right now, you'll probably also want to be upgrading to whatever the next gen cobs are.


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no ac unit with COBs, so you do save more. plus if you keep ladybugs in the grow room COBs are way WAY better than HIDs lol