injunction/court case updates
- Thread starter doingdishes
- Start date
doingdishes
Well-Known Member
i am getting tired of looking everyday and feeling like a dog waiting for their owner to get home
"it it today?? is it today??"
"it it today?? is it today??"
VIANARCHRIS
Well-Known Member
Can he be made to give a reason for the delay? Cause I'd really like to know,too. How does that saying go...justice delayed is justice denied...or something like that?
VIANARCHRIS
Well-Known Member
You too,huh?
doingdishes
Well-Known Member
from John Turmel...doing GREAT work and it's for free...
Several people will be demonstrating before the Federal
Court of Appeal on Queen St. in Toronto today to regain the
permits to possess marijuana for all those who have a -
permit to grow. There are certain people demanding the right
to exemptions as well as better exemption conditions. At the
head of this demonstration are long-known activists for the
legalization of marijuana therapeutic, brothers Raymond and
John Turmel who will clearly light up joints at the protest
at 1pm today. To better understand what's in play, I'm
joined by John Turmel. Mr. Turmel, do explain why you are
demonstrating today before the Federal Court of Appeal?
Turmel: Two years ago, the Federal Court was deciding if
those who had exemptions to cultivate, about 36,000 people,
could continue to cultivate despite the new MMPR regime
forcing them to buy at higher prices.
In the decision of the first judge, he validated the
exemptions to cultivate for all patients but.. in the case
of Robert Roy, his exemption was expiring after the date of
the hearing. But the judge reserved his decision for 3 days.
He then ruled: all cultivation permits are renewed but the
possession permits are only renewed for those alive today.
So Robert Roy lost his grow-house.
With a half year's worth of exemptions that had expired,
because if your exemption expired, there was no use getting
another exemption to plant a crop not ready in time. So most
people simply survived on their stored marijuana waiting to
see what would happen. And the judge renewed their grow
permit but only those unexpired could continue and 18,000
people lost their gardens.
NM: So you're launching an appeal in your name for others
like the man you mentioned.
Turmel: Yes, a couple of hundred people applied to Federal
Court, there was a huge video-conferenced hearing 2 years
ago in 12 courthouses in 10 provinces. In this large group,
when the judge had ruled, they said: look, we were Left-Out,
we aren't exempted any more. We want interim exemptions for
our Personal Medical Use. But the judge said: No, I want to
see your medical evidence, having shown me your
Authorization To Possess Number for which your doctor signed
is insufficient. So we're now in the Court of Appeal arguing
that insisting to see the medical evidence, that's something
for the doctor, not the judge. So there was no reason to
deny the declarations of the doctors that these people had
need of this medication.
So 26 appealed and we were consolidated together. The others
all have exemptions to grow and only want their exemptions
to possess back. I'm the only one who did not have an
exemption, I want an interim exemption for the benefits and
prevention. The others want their possess permit back with
their cultivation permit.
NM: Mr. Turmel, for those who don't know you and your
brother Raymond Turmel who is also an activist, can you tell
us your story and the ground you've covered? What brought
you activism? What brought you to consume marijuana for
medical reasons?
Turmel: In 2000, my brother was busted for growing marijuana
for his wife. I was well-versed in the courts and how to use
them and so I started some actions against the medical
regime. In 2003, I forced them to drop 4,000 charges and
recently, last Friday in Ottawa in James Turner's case, do a
search, there were 4 big stories out of Ottawa, a guy
charged with 2,879 plants and after 9 years of prosecution,
with his trial coming up in February, they abandoned
prosecution and now he's filing a motion for the Return of
the $3 million in marijuana they destroyed.
NM: But does someone need $3 million dollars worth of pot
plants at home for his medical need?
Turmel: That's not important. What's important is that at
the time he was charged, the law was invalid. So it's they,
themselves, who say.. it was mainly small plants, little
clones, okay, ha ha. But it's them who valued them at $1,000
per plant! Okay, if you want to make out he was some kind of
Drug Kingpin, he was busted with $120! So don't imagine this
was some large grow at all, they completely exaggerated it.
But that their valuation, sorry, but that's $3 million
dollars, we'll ask for it. That's all.
But these motions to Quash which forced the government to
withdraw his charges, are also in the Nova Scotia and Quebec
courts right now.
NM: With the newly-elected government that wants to legalize
marijuana, why do you continue these battles anyway?
Turmel: Because their legalization is the same as that of
the Conservatives. They're going to have rules whereby I
can't have any because I'm not sick yet. Regardless, they're
going to take their time, people are dying, 18,000 people
who qualified to grow their own marijuana who were cut off,
and should have the right to start up again. And we are
asking for that.
But the Turner decision, that's in the criminal courts, and
we're asking, since the June Supreme Court of Canada Smith
decision declared the prohibition on derivatives, oil,
juice, violate the to life because you need the oil to put
on your tumor, bud can't work.
In 2000, the Parker decision said: You need an exemption for
the him, epileptics and the sick to have a prohibition
against all the others. 2 years later, the Hitzig decision
found the regime hadn't worked. J.P. had his charges quashed
because the exemption wasn't working, and they dropped 4,000
charges in 2003. Well now, the Supreme Court of Canada has
just declared: Whoa, there's a worse exemption, Mis-use,
they can't have oil. We're saying that if the prohibition is
invalid while the exemption malfunctions, we've just gotten
a declaration from the highest court in Canada that it was
flawed from the start.
So we have Motions to Quash due to Smith BENO, Bad Exemption
No Offense, in Nova Scotia, Quebec, Ontario and anyone who
wants to argue that the law is dead after the Supreme Court
of Canada declared the exemption was defective.
Now, we're in Federal Court for the return of exemptions for
the sick, but if they take their time to decide, maybe a
Quash Motion will strike down the laws and they won't even
need their exemptions from the Federal Court any more.
Today, it's for the return of their exemptions.
NM: So today, you want to smoke marijuana outside the
Federal Court of Appeal on Queen St. just before the
proceedings commence at 2pm. Aren't you worried it my hinder
your case before the judge?
Turmel: Oh, no. No no no no. It's those who have exemptions
who will puff. Certainly not me.
NM: Mr. Turmel, thank you for the answers to my questions.
------------------------------
JCT: The judges were up on the details. Can't believe I had
an hour and only used half! I talk fast and say it once. The
judges had a lot of fun, considering all the blood, if you
can believe it. They really beat up on the Crown.
Justice Pelletier broke up the court. I had gone to the
limit in saying: Conroy had asked for an exemption without
limitation so they could sell it to kids while we wanted the
historic for Personal Medical Use only. And they could,
couldn't they, without limitation!!!
The Crown then rebutted that the Allards did not want it to
push to kids. Judge Pelletier quipped:"Come on, Mr. Turmel's
known for hyperbole!
Though, without limitation, it could be sold to kids so it
was legitimate hyperbole!
I'm realistic, I've had great hearings before but then lost
because they apologetically couldn't help. But the audience
were quite agog at the posers the court put to the Crown. He
was left hanging several times. Things I'd noted to whack
him with in my Reply they whacked him before I could.
I think the best was when Bricker said that the Allards and
the Gold Stars were seeking similar relief. Justice
Pelletier pointed out they sought MMAR extension and we
sought MMAR repeal!!!
When the judges whack them with polar opposites, things
can't be good for the Crown. And face it, it actually
wouldn't be much of a change to order that all possess
permits are renewed with all renewed grow permits, that's
all. Permit them to possess what they are permitted to grow.
Given the rules, I'd say it's okay for someone with a CD to
let you hear it over the phone. So if you're not in a
provincial capital city with easy availability to get one,
have someone else get one and then listen to it.
I'll try to transcribe it over time but this really is the
first time I really don't have to. Kind of neat. If you are
one of the Left-Outs with your ass on the line, spend the
$15 for a great dose of hope for what Conroy lost below.
Remember, these guys are higher than below! With the power
to do anything just! Listen to it and tell me how you think
the judges will rule.
ISSUES:
1) 4/20 Allard issues not significant overlap.
2) Interim PMU Exemption was way to go, still is.
3) Phelan had no competence to require medical evidence.
REMEDIES
A) Extend possess permit renewals to all with grow permits
B) Exempt all valid grow permits, easiest and best. It takes
care of amendments, the legality is with the exemptee, not
with the document with the address of his site.
Best of all, saving the 18,000 Conroy lost also mootens the
whole Allard case. When all former patients are protected
again, there is no more Allard case, is there! Har har har
har har har. Conroy's sabotaging below while we're winning
back above. I think I gutted the Crown's "experienced
opponent" pretty well.
Several people will be demonstrating before the Federal
Court of Appeal on Queen St. in Toronto today to regain the
permits to possess marijuana for all those who have a -
permit to grow. There are certain people demanding the right
to exemptions as well as better exemption conditions. At the
head of this demonstration are long-known activists for the
legalization of marijuana therapeutic, brothers Raymond and
John Turmel who will clearly light up joints at the protest
at 1pm today. To better understand what's in play, I'm
joined by John Turmel. Mr. Turmel, do explain why you are
demonstrating today before the Federal Court of Appeal?
Turmel: Two years ago, the Federal Court was deciding if
those who had exemptions to cultivate, about 36,000 people,
could continue to cultivate despite the new MMPR regime
forcing them to buy at higher prices.
In the decision of the first judge, he validated the
exemptions to cultivate for all patients but.. in the case
of Robert Roy, his exemption was expiring after the date of
the hearing. But the judge reserved his decision for 3 days.
He then ruled: all cultivation permits are renewed but the
possession permits are only renewed for those alive today.
So Robert Roy lost his grow-house.
With a half year's worth of exemptions that had expired,
because if your exemption expired, there was no use getting
another exemption to plant a crop not ready in time. So most
people simply survived on their stored marijuana waiting to
see what would happen. And the judge renewed their grow
permit but only those unexpired could continue and 18,000
people lost their gardens.
NM: So you're launching an appeal in your name for others
like the man you mentioned.
Turmel: Yes, a couple of hundred people applied to Federal
Court, there was a huge video-conferenced hearing 2 years
ago in 12 courthouses in 10 provinces. In this large group,
when the judge had ruled, they said: look, we were Left-Out,
we aren't exempted any more. We want interim exemptions for
our Personal Medical Use. But the judge said: No, I want to
see your medical evidence, having shown me your
Authorization To Possess Number for which your doctor signed
is insufficient. So we're now in the Court of Appeal arguing
that insisting to see the medical evidence, that's something
for the doctor, not the judge. So there was no reason to
deny the declarations of the doctors that these people had
need of this medication.
So 26 appealed and we were consolidated together. The others
all have exemptions to grow and only want their exemptions
to possess back. I'm the only one who did not have an
exemption, I want an interim exemption for the benefits and
prevention. The others want their possess permit back with
their cultivation permit.
NM: Mr. Turmel, for those who don't know you and your
brother Raymond Turmel who is also an activist, can you tell
us your story and the ground you've covered? What brought
you activism? What brought you to consume marijuana for
medical reasons?
Turmel: In 2000, my brother was busted for growing marijuana
for his wife. I was well-versed in the courts and how to use
them and so I started some actions against the medical
regime. In 2003, I forced them to drop 4,000 charges and
recently, last Friday in Ottawa in James Turner's case, do a
search, there were 4 big stories out of Ottawa, a guy
charged with 2,879 plants and after 9 years of prosecution,
with his trial coming up in February, they abandoned
prosecution and now he's filing a motion for the Return of
the $3 million in marijuana they destroyed.
NM: But does someone need $3 million dollars worth of pot
plants at home for his medical need?
Turmel: That's not important. What's important is that at
the time he was charged, the law was invalid. So it's they,
themselves, who say.. it was mainly small plants, little
clones, okay, ha ha. But it's them who valued them at $1,000
per plant! Okay, if you want to make out he was some kind of
Drug Kingpin, he was busted with $120! So don't imagine this
was some large grow at all, they completely exaggerated it.
But that their valuation, sorry, but that's $3 million
dollars, we'll ask for it. That's all.
But these motions to Quash which forced the government to
withdraw his charges, are also in the Nova Scotia and Quebec
courts right now.
NM: With the newly-elected government that wants to legalize
marijuana, why do you continue these battles anyway?
Turmel: Because their legalization is the same as that of
the Conservatives. They're going to have rules whereby I
can't have any because I'm not sick yet. Regardless, they're
going to take their time, people are dying, 18,000 people
who qualified to grow their own marijuana who were cut off,
and should have the right to start up again. And we are
asking for that.
But the Turner decision, that's in the criminal courts, and
we're asking, since the June Supreme Court of Canada Smith
decision declared the prohibition on derivatives, oil,
juice, violate the to life because you need the oil to put
on your tumor, bud can't work.
In 2000, the Parker decision said: You need an exemption for
the him, epileptics and the sick to have a prohibition
against all the others. 2 years later, the Hitzig decision
found the regime hadn't worked. J.P. had his charges quashed
because the exemption wasn't working, and they dropped 4,000
charges in 2003. Well now, the Supreme Court of Canada has
just declared: Whoa, there's a worse exemption, Mis-use,
they can't have oil. We're saying that if the prohibition is
invalid while the exemption malfunctions, we've just gotten
a declaration from the highest court in Canada that it was
flawed from the start.
So we have Motions to Quash due to Smith BENO, Bad Exemption
No Offense, in Nova Scotia, Quebec, Ontario and anyone who
wants to argue that the law is dead after the Supreme Court
of Canada declared the exemption was defective.
Now, we're in Federal Court for the return of exemptions for
the sick, but if they take their time to decide, maybe a
Quash Motion will strike down the laws and they won't even
need their exemptions from the Federal Court any more.
Today, it's for the return of their exemptions.
NM: So today, you want to smoke marijuana outside the
Federal Court of Appeal on Queen St. just before the
proceedings commence at 2pm. Aren't you worried it my hinder
your case before the judge?
Turmel: Oh, no. No no no no. It's those who have exemptions
who will puff. Certainly not me.
NM: Mr. Turmel, thank you for the answers to my questions.
------------------------------
JCT: The judges were up on the details. Can't believe I had
an hour and only used half! I talk fast and say it once. The
judges had a lot of fun, considering all the blood, if you
can believe it. They really beat up on the Crown.
Justice Pelletier broke up the court. I had gone to the
limit in saying: Conroy had asked for an exemption without
limitation so they could sell it to kids while we wanted the
historic for Personal Medical Use only. And they could,
couldn't they, without limitation!!!
The Crown then rebutted that the Allards did not want it to
push to kids. Judge Pelletier quipped:"Come on, Mr. Turmel's
known for hyperbole!
Though, without limitation, it could be sold to kids so it
was legitimate hyperbole!
I'm realistic, I've had great hearings before but then lost
because they apologetically couldn't help. But the audience
were quite agog at the posers the court put to the Crown. He
was left hanging several times. Things I'd noted to whack
him with in my Reply they whacked him before I could.
I think the best was when Bricker said that the Allards and
the Gold Stars were seeking similar relief. Justice
Pelletier pointed out they sought MMAR extension and we
sought MMAR repeal!!!
When the judges whack them with polar opposites, things
can't be good for the Crown. And face it, it actually
wouldn't be much of a change to order that all possess
permits are renewed with all renewed grow permits, that's
all. Permit them to possess what they are permitted to grow.
Given the rules, I'd say it's okay for someone with a CD to
let you hear it over the phone. So if you're not in a
provincial capital city with easy availability to get one,
have someone else get one and then listen to it.
I'll try to transcribe it over time but this really is the
first time I really don't have to. Kind of neat. If you are
one of the Left-Outs with your ass on the line, spend the
$15 for a great dose of hope for what Conroy lost below.
Remember, these guys are higher than below! With the power
to do anything just! Listen to it and tell me how you think
the judges will rule.
ISSUES:
1) 4/20 Allard issues not significant overlap.
2) Interim PMU Exemption was way to go, still is.
3) Phelan had no competence to require medical evidence.
REMEDIES
A) Extend possess permit renewals to all with grow permits
B) Exempt all valid grow permits, easiest and best. It takes
care of amendments, the legality is with the exemptee, not
with the document with the address of his site.
Best of all, saving the 18,000 Conroy lost also mootens the
whole Allard case. When all former patients are protected
again, there is no more Allard case, is there! Har har har
har har har. Conroy's sabotaging below while we're winning
back above. I think I gutted the Crown's "experienced
opponent" pretty well.
doingdishes
Well-Known Member
Failin' Phelan for sure
CannaReview
Well-Known Member
I can't believe there is still no decision.
bigmanc
Well-Known Member
I know its crazy who cares about legalization we need a medical program
bigmanc
Well-Known Member
@doingdishes Turmel uploaded this almost 2hr video yesterday. 60 seconds in and its more informative then any cannabis in canada video I've ever seen.
doingdishes
Well-Known Member
he is working on it for himself but welcomes us all on the ride.
if you know ANYONE who's been busted, use his Smith BENO quash. it works and you can do it for free!
doingdishes
Well-Known Member
he is a good egg!
i have a lot of respect for Turmel! he has some "out there" ideas but all in all, he does good work for people and asks for nothing. if you want to give him $$ for helping, he doesn't always take it either. a friend offered him $$ and he turned it down. blew my mind....but John said if he offers again, he would take him up on it...haha
bigmanc
Well-Known Member
At about 9 minutes he said last week a Ottawa judge through out a 2800 plant cultivation case LOLOLOL due to no chance of success
doingdishes
Well-Known Member
it was the end to a 9 yr case! he's going for the return of the 2879 plants or their equivalent value. HC's or the RCMP value each plant at $1k so that's a few million dollars thereAt about 9 minutes he said last week a Ottawa judge through out a 2800 plant cultivation case LOLOLOL due to no chance of success
OGEvilgenius
Well-Known Member
that's fucking awesome.
The RCMP massively overvalues something and it bites them in the ass... how many people know of tiny ass grows that got busted that supposedly were worth 5 figures or more? I know a couple (like 1 or 2 lighters).
$1k a plant was the standard they used to value grows for a long time including fresh clones. I've noticed that the $1k per plant rate has now gone up and every bust I've read about in the last 6 months has used ~$1200 per plant in the calculation the police have used.
doingdishes
Well-Known Member
would have a link to that amount? i think that would be great to pass on that info...$1200 X 2879 plants...wow!
i think it's amazing that if they make the bust, it's OK to publish that amount as a value but if they have to pay it back, well it isn't really worth that much.....they speak with forked tongue