Reverse Engineering everyone's nutrients

[churchhaze]

It's not hard to find these ingredients online. I got most of mine from crop king except for the potassium nitrate which they have extremely high shipping for.

 

[MrMoores]

What epuipment would I need to take my own plant tissue samples so I could determine for myself what nutrients need correcting ?

 

[churchhaze]

Lotta work. Lotta work. Hope it's satisfying and fun. Gotta be some upside

You and hyroot are acting like trolls. Just letting you know that neither of you have nothing to contribute to this thread.

 

[ttystikk]

I feel like you're putting more effort into this than I am now. I mean, sure it took me hours to reverse engineer all these, but a marketing brain is something I do not posses. Also, don't shoot me if I use "Open Salts". I really like that, not gunna lie.




Here's the thing about "even MORE advanced nutrients", it's a bunch of bullshit really. No one has put forth the effort to truly experiment on nutrient blends in cannabis. A lot of people understand what a plant needs in general, and that is good enough to grow a plant. If anyone tells you that growing cannabis is hard, tell them to shove it up their ass. Growing plants is easy, relatively speaking.

I can get down to and tell you concentrations you want in your fertigation water and how to get them based on your source water quality, soil quality, and tissue quality. That's just a step further than what I've shown here with the concentrations of each individual fertilizer. But doing that takes a lot more time and effort than using a premixed blend that someone came up with. The point of premixed blends is the make growing easy, right? To do it the advanced way is to use real data on your water, soil, and plants. At best, that is "more advanced". But it's also beyond what a regular consumer would do with a little 6 plant grow in his walk in closet.

Also, not a chemist, a mechanical engineer actually. But I do have a habit for teaching myself things mechanical engineers shouldn't know anything about. Hell, it only took a week or two to teach myself how to reverse engineer these nutrients. In doing so, I learned more about the chemistry of fertilization and growing plants that I ever would have thought. And then I stumbled across HydroBuddy and got into that. Stumbled across more software, etc.

As az2000 said: My brain has too many tabs open. And god damnit is it hard to close them.

A real live ME? HOT SHIT! Mind if I ask a few questions? (Not here)

 

[MisterBlah]

Can you do a recreate for Ionic bloom, if you don't mind.

This one is interesting and I just learned some people are bad at reporting what their guaranteed analysis is or just bad a mixing nutrient blends.

The database at http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilizers/FertDB/prodinfo.aspx?pname=5881 shows that it is a 3-2-6. Okay, no problem. But what they don't list there are calcium and sulfates. Here's the ionic bloom label: http://hdi.web2.webascender.com/media/wysiwyg/Documents/ionic/IonicBloomQT.JPG

Notice how it two of the compounds it's derived from are calcium nitrate and potassium sulfate there. A calcium sulfate precipitate will often form in the high concentrations these are made at. That is a huge waste. Seriously, go look at database again. No calcium and no sulfate in the guaranteed analysis.

In addition, they mix ammonium nitrate with the concentrated acid phosphoric acid. Hell, phosphoric acid is their only source of phosphorus. This MIGHT be bad. Never add a concentrated acid in with ammonium nitrate solution, specifically what is called AN-20, a liquid fertilizer form of ammonium nitrate. If they had pre-diluted everything, it wouldn't be so much of a problem.

 

[az2000]

where would you buy all these ingredients from..

Hydro growers often purchase from Yara. I believe I've seen references to people on eBay selling smaller quantities. But, you don't know how an unknown seller has stored/handled what's being sold. "Alpha International Chemicals" sells small quantities of things on Amazon and eBay. I bought by potassium sulfate from them.

Eventually there should be a "beginner's" tutorial. High-level explanation of the chemicals, how to mix them, what to avoid (the violent reaction Mr blah mentioned). Sources for large quantities, small quantities. How to make concentrated solutions for easier daily use.

I think that kind of "outreach" and education has been what's been missing. As cannabis becomes less criminal, more novices are getting into growing, I think what Mr. Blah is doing will be extremely useful. People talk about how it's cheaper to DIY. But, how to do it hasn't been easily accessible. The learning curve has been unnecessarily steep. A "for the masses" source of information has been what's missing. I imagine Mr. Blah is contemplating that in addition to the data-driven formulas.

I think this could be the Uber of growing because it walks the fine line between the regulated fertilizer market, and DIY. It could be taken all the way up to "here's the kit of pre-measured chemicals" and it wouldn't be subject to the regulatory burden (in the US, anyway) of commercial products because it's not being mixed and sold to you as a fertilizer. It's a DIY kit. A convenience for something you can do yourself. Even hydro stores could sell pre-mixed jugs and call it a "convenience." It could have an almost wink-wink, nudge-nudge tone to it. "Here's the kit. Would you like us to mix it for you for an additional $1? Well, I have a bottle behind the counter, I'll just exchange your kit for that."

That's what Uber and Lyft are doing to the regulated taxi domain. "We just coordinate private, consensual 'ride sharing,' wink-wink, nudge, nudge." With some branding and outreach, I think it could be a big deal.

Kind of curious about simple every day Miracle-Gro Line ups? That would be interesting

The two regulatory websites I posted might show you what you're looking for. At least more than the product label.

What do you want to see, or recreate? At $6 for 200 one-gallon feedings, I don't think there's much low-hanging fruit available with DIY'ing your MG. I see MG being a cheap source of NPK ratios to mix to get your own custom NPK ratios (without metering out all the constituent components). Something like a more abstract (higher-level, "for dummies") version of what Mr. Blah is doing.

 

[MisterBlah]

This will be the last post here for recipes. It's a pain to try to find these by searching through a thread. So, I'll have a website up sometime soon (within a month) with all this information and lots more recipes. I will also post on that website a lot more information on the theory behind creating your own as well as reverse engineering. I will include information related to water quality, soil quality, etc.

I removed a few of the GH products that weren't pure mineral fertilizers. I will come back to them later. These are product like Diamond Nectar that is based on humic acid, for example. I also removed Canna Boost as it is also not a mineral based fertilizer. It's an organic and I'm working on how to go about properly reverse engineering them. It's a bit more involved.

GENERAL HYDROPONICS LIQUID KOOLBLOOM 0-10-10

Phosphoric Acid : 2.389 mL/L
Dipotassium Phosphate : 18482.750 mg/L

GENERAL HYDROPONICS KOOLBLOOM 2-45-28

Mono Potassium Phosphate : 809634.500 mg/l
Magnesium Sulfate : 102040.800 mg/l
Mono Ammonium Phosphate : 46791.660 mg/l
Ammonium Nitrate : 37905.090 mg/l
Ammonium Sulfate : 7129.860 mg/l

DYNA-GRO FOLIAGE-PRO 9-3-6

Calcium Nitrate : 105263.200 mg/l
Potassium Nitrate : 86553.780 mg/l
Ammonium Nitrate : 163515.300 mg/l
Mono Potassium Phosphate : 57685.990 mg/l
Magnesium Nitrate : 52083.330 mg/l
Fe-chelated : 5555.550 mg/l
Cu-chelated : 2941.177 mg/l
Mn-chelated : 2777.780 mg/l
Zn-chelated : 2165.000 mg/l
Mo-Chelated : 62.500 mg/l

DYNA-GRO MAG-PRO 2-15-4

Mono Ammonium Phosphate : 125000.000 mg/l
Mono Potassium Phosphate : 115662.100 mg/l
Magnesium Sulfate : 115384.600 mg/l
Magnesium Nitrate : 81818.180 mg/l

DYNA-GRO LIQUID BLOOM 3-12-6

Mono Potassium Phosphate : 173493.100 mg/l
Calcium Nitrate : 110526.300 mg/l
Magnesium Nitrate : 55208.330 mg/l
Mono Ammonium Phosphate : 48133.090 mg/l
Fe-chelated : 5555.550 mg/l
Cu-chelated : 2941.177 mg/l
Mn-chelated : 2777.780 mg/l
Zn-chelated : 2500.000 mg/l
Bo-chelated : 1333.330 mg/l
Sodium Chloride : 1648.260 mg/l
Sodium Sulfate : 1799.763 mg/l
Sodium Molybdate : 23.000 mg/l

DYNA-GRO LIQUID GROW 7-9-5

Mono Potassium Phosphate : 144577.600 mg/l
Ammonium Nitrate : 63845.620 mg/l
Magnesium Nitrate : 52083.330 mg/l
Mono Ammonium Phosphate : 23944.570 mg/l
Fe-chelated : 5555.550 mg/l
Cu-chelated : 2941.177 mg/l
Mn-chelated : 2777.780 mg/l
Zn-chelated : 2000.000 mg/l
Sodium Chloride : 1648.260 mg/l
Sodium Sulfate : 1799.763 mg/l
Bo-chelated : 1333.330 mg/l
CAN-17 : 227611.000 mg/l
Sodium Molybdate : 23.000 mg/l

DYNA-GRO LIQUID PRO-TEKT 0-0-3

Potassium Silicate : 49105.070 mg/l
This is most likely actually 50,000mg/l, 50g/l.

CANNA AQUA VEGA B 0-3-4

Mono Potassium Phosphate : 57685.980 mg/l
Potassium Sulfate : 39336.040 mg/l
Zn-chelated : 550.000 mg/l
Mo-Chelated : 375.000 mg/l

CANNA AQUA VEGA A 5-0-2

Calcium Nitrate : 84210.530 mg/l
Magnesium Nitrate : 83333.340 mg/l
Ammonium Nitrate : 64546.000 mg/l
Potassium Nitrate : 43222.680 mg/l

CANNA AQUA FLORES A 3-0-6

Potassium Nitrate : 129668.000 mg/l
Calcium Nitrate : 78947.370 mg/l

CANNA AQUA FLORES B 0-4-3

Mono Potassium Phosphate : 76914.670 mg/l
Zn-chelated : 500.000 mg/l
Mo-Chelated : 412.500 mg/l

CANNA TERRA VEGA 2-1-3

Potassium Nitrate : 64834.040 mg/l
Ammonium Nitrate : 27312.710 mg/l
Mono Ammonium Phosphate : 16166.320 mg/l
Zn-chelated : 260.000 mg/l
Mo-Chelated : 162.500 mg/l

CANNA TERRA FLORES 2-2-4

Potassium Nitrate : 86445.360 mg/l
Ammonium Nitrate : 32332.630 mg/l
Mono Ammonium Phosphate : 12988.850 mg/l
Zn-chelated : 375.000 mg/l
Mo-Chelated : 300.000 mg/l

FOX FARM GROW BIG LIQUID PLANT FOOD 6-4-4

Ammonium Nitrate : 96881.310 mg/l
Potassium Nitrate : 86445.360 mg/l
Mono Ammonium Phosphate : 64665.300 mg/l
Magnesium Nitrate : 62500.000 mg/l
Fe-chelated : 5555.550 mg/l
Cu-chelated : 2941.177 mg/l
Mn-chelated : 2777.780 mg/l
Zn-chelated : 2500.000 mg/l
Bo-chelated : 1333.000 mg/l

FOX FARM GROW BIG HYDROPONIC PLANT FOOD 3-2-6

Calcium Nitrate : 105236.200 mg/l
Potassium Nitrate : 72322.450 mg/l
Magnesium Nitrate : 51502.610 mg/l
Dipotassium Phosphate : 49043.890 mg/l
Fe-chelated : 5555.550 mg/l
Cu-chelated : 2941.177 mg/l
Mn-chelated : 2777.780 mg/l
Zn-chelated : 2500.000 mg/l
Bo-chelated : 1333.000 mg/l

FOX FARM TIGER BLOOM 2-8-4

Mono Ammonium Phosphate : 80590.860 mg/l
Dipotassium Phosphate : 73931.000 mg/l
Magnesium Nitrate : 52083.330 mg/l
Ammonium Nitrate : 11062.370 mg/l
Fe-chelated : 6666.670 mg/l
Cu-chelated : 2941.177 mg/l
Mn-chelated : 3333.330 mg/l
Zn-chelated : 2500.000 mg/l
Bo-chelated : 1333.000 mg/l

FOX FARM OPEN SESAME 5-45-19 (This is a solid blend, percentages are given)


Mono Ammonium Phosphate : 42.721%
Mono Potassium Phosphate : 40.852%
Potassium Sulfate : 11.771%
Fe-chelated : 0.883%
Mn-chelated : 0.294%
Zn-chelated : 0.265%

FOX FARM CHA CHING 9-50-10 (This is a solid blend, percentages are given)

Mono Ammonium Phosphate : 59.876%
Mono Potassium Phosphate : 30.632%
Ammonium Nitrate : 6.674%
Fe-chelated : 0.589%
Cu-chelated : 0.312%
Mn-chelated : 0.294%
Zn-chelated : 0.265%
Bo-chelated : 0.141%

Also, I think I screwed up on the percentages in the other solid blends listed before here. I realized I was not properly doing copy/pasta with them so I wasn't doing a sum correctly. I'll update them later, or may just on the new website.

 

[MisterBlah]

What epuipment would I need to take my own plant tissue samples so I could determine for myself what nutrients need correcting ?

Basically zero farms do their own tissue sampling. Like, maybe the biggest farms or greenhouses do it themselves, but that's it. These are people like Houweling's that has a 127 acre tomato greenhouse. Yeah... 127 acres of a greenhouse. You want to talk cash crops? These guys have spent more to grow tomatoes than any single player has spent on a legal cannabis grow, and I know some that were $10million+ to start up. They've got a greenhouse underway in Utah right now that is a $60million+ facility.

Pretty much everyone sends it off to a lab to do it. That's what I've done in the past, but I've never done cannabis tissue sampling in the US because no lab will do it. It's illegal after all. I've considered starting a business that does tissue sampling of cannabis, but the market is so small right now that it isn't even worth it. To do it you need probably $100k+ in equipment to get set up You are doing gas chromatography mass spectrometry as well as ion chromatography for most of the micronutrients, so it's not cheap to get started and you need highly trained chemists to run your equipment, so it's not cheap to run either.

 

[OGEvilgenius]

This is a great little thread. Would be curious to see you break down some of the organic stuff if you can .

Canna Boost = triacontanol extract (from Alf Alfa I presume but I suppose it could come from elsewhere).

Canna line of nutes is a fairly popular one with coco guys I know.

 

[MisterBlah]

Hydro growers often purchase from Yara. I believe I've seen references to people on eBay selling smaller quantities. But, you don't know how an unknown seller has stored/handled what's being sold. "Alpha International Chemicals" sells small quantities of things on Amazon and eBay. I bought by potassium sulfate from them.

Eventually there should be a "beginner's" tutorial. High-level explanation of the chemicals, how to mix them, what to avoid (the violent reaction Mr blah mentioned). Sources for large quantities, small quantities. How to make concentrated solutions for easier daily use.

I think that kind of "outreach" and education has been what's been missing. As cannabis becomes less criminal, more novices are getting into growing, I think what Mr. Blah is doing will be extremely useful. People talk about how it's cheaper to DIY. But, how to do it hasn't been easily accessible. The learning curve has been unnecessarily steep. A "for the masses" source of information has been what's missing. I imagine Mr. Blah is contemplating that in addition to the data-driven formulas.

I think this could be the Uber of growing because it walks the fine line between the regulated fertilizer market, and DIY. It could be taken all the way up to "here's the kit of pre-measured chemicals" and it wouldn't be subject to the regulatory burden (in the US, anyway) of commercial products because it's not being mixed and sold to you as a fertilizer. It's a DIY kit. A convenience for something you can do yourself. Even hydro stores could sell pre-mixed jugs and call it a "convenience." It could have an almost wink-wink, nudge-nudge tone to it. "Here's the kit. Would you like us to mix it for you for an additional $1? Well, I have a bottle behind the counter, I'll just exchange your kit for that."

That's what Uber and Lyft are doing to the regulated taxi domain. "We just coordinate private, consensual 'ride sharing,' wink-wink, nudge, nudge." With some branding and outreach, I think it could be a big deal.



The two regulatory websites I posted might show you what you're looking for. At least more than the product label.

What do you want to see, or recreate? At $6 for 200 one-gallon feedings, I don't think there's much low-hanging fruit available with DIY'ing your MG. I see MG being a cheap source of NPK ratios to mix to get your own custom NPK ratios (without metering out all the constituent components). Something like a more abstract (higher-level, "for dummies") version of what Mr. Blah is doing.

Yara is just one of many manufactures. You've got Agrium, Haifa Group, JR Simplot, Fertizona, etc. etc. etc. Fertilizers are traded as commodities, literally. They vary in price over the course of the year. When you are buying fertilizers like this, it's silly to think "Company A is better brand than Company B". They all have blends, sure, but they are pretty standard. Like a 20-20-20 or 10-10-5 or 10-10-20 or 20-20-5, etc. Farmers buy what's sold locally.

I think one of the things I will include on the website I'll start to accommodate all this is a lot of information on chemistry and the theory behind mixing your own fertilizer blends. Believe it or not, it's actually pretty simple stuff.

Now, in regards to a hydro store mixing for convenience, it is in fact 100% illegal for them to do it without detailed labeling. Here in Colorado, you have to pay $50 or something to register a fertilizer blend. Now, that's not a lot, but it makes it not worthwhile to sell anything beyond a "kit" of unmixed fertilizer.

 

[MisterBlah]

This is a great little thread. Would be curious to see you break down some of the organic stuff if you can .

Canna Boost = triacontanol extract (from Alf Alfa I presume but I suppose it could come from elsewhere).

Canna line of nutes is a fairly popular one with coco guys I know.

I've gotten to reading more about Canna Boost and yeah it's not just a mineral fertilizer. When I did the analysis at first, I didn't realize that. Pretty sure I was just going off the guaranteed analysis numbers from the state of washington's website database. Anyway, Canna Boost has a lot of saccharin carbohydrates in it. In what I know about saccharin production, it's not going to be reasonable for me to work out a saccharin concentration as it's not as easy and as cheap to produce saccharins as it is ammonium nitrate, for example.

Otherwise haven't gotten into the organic lines yet. They are actually proving to be difficult to do. While it's easy for someone to say they use, for example, kelp powder, it's hard to actually test the quantities in a lab. If it's an organic with a single substance, I'm sure I could figure out eC and therefore TDS and figure it out from there, but many organics use a lot of different stuff.

 

[OGEvilgenius]

I've gotten to reading more about Canna Boost and yeah it's not just a mineral fertilizer. When I did the analysis at first, I didn't realize that. Pretty sure I was just going off the guaranteed analysis numbers from the state of washington's website database. Anyway, Canna Boost has a lot of saccharin carbohydrates in it. In what I know about saccharin production, it's not going to be reasonable for me to work out a saccharin concentration as it's not as easy and as cheap to produce saccharins as it is ammonium nitrate, for example.

Otherwise haven't gotten into the organic lines yet. They are actually proving to be difficult to do. While it's easy for someone to say they use, for example, kelp powder, it's hard to actually test the quantities in a lab. If it's an organic with a single substance, I'm sure I could figure out eC and therefore TDS and figure it out from there, but many organics use a lot of different stuff.

Yeah, from what I've read about boost it actually probably has more than just Triacontanol in it - it has a fermented things of various types a lot of which will provide different hormones useful for the plant. I think it would be difficult to figure out without significant investment, which is probably why it costs like 400 bucks for 5L of the stuff.

It does work rather well from all who report using it. I have my doubts it would be much better than a well thought out alf alfa/kelp meal extract mix perhaps brewed up in a nice compost tea.

 

[MisterBlah]

It does work rather well from all who report using it. I have my doubts it would be much better than a well thought out alf alfa/kelp meal extract mix perhaps brewed up in a nice compost tea.

I think this is a really important concept that people growing need to understand. Even if you're doing organics.

Plants are easy to grow. They can handle quite a lot. And the really specific and specialized products like CannaBoost, while useful and effective, just aren't necessary. The same goes for a product like Botanicare CNS17. No need to put everything in a single bottle. Really, the effort of a 2 part fertilizer blend vs a 1 part really is just a drop in the bucket when you consider the effort that goes into the rest of the process.

If you like using them, please don't think I'm telling you to stop. If you aren't using them, just know there are cheaper and, for the most part, just as effective ways to go about things.

 

[MisterBlah]

There is also another thing I want to mention about fertilizer blends and labeling.

What is on the label is, for the most part, not exactly what is in the product, but close. This is because fertilizer labeling has rules that require the producer or blender to provide a guaranteed analysis that has accuracy/precision requirements. So, in Colorado, for example, I can say something has 1% of something when it actually only has 0.49%. When it comes to micronutrients, it changes, but the principle is still the same. There might actually be 20ppm of boron in the blend, but since that might be below what some states require, it won't be on the label in the guaranteed analysis. Honestly, I think this is bullshit that they can get away with doing this, but I digress. Regardless. just so everyone knows, I am currently only working off the guaranteed analysis numbers and some of these blends do actually divert from the exact number on the guaranteed analysis, but, really always by less than 0.5%.

Personally, I think that fertilizer labeling should be controlled on the federal level, and at the very least be much more accurate. I mean, we have scales than can measure 46.9834g to a precision of +/- 0.0001g. So, why can't we have more than 1 significant figure in reporting percentages in a fertilizer blend?

 

[klx]

CANNA AQUA VEGA B 0-3-4

Mono Potassium Phosphate : 57685.980 mg/l
Potassium Sulfate : 39336.040 mg/l
Zn-chelated : 550.000 mg/l
Mo-Chelated : 375.000 mg/l

CANNA AQUA VEGA A 5-0-2

Calcium Nitrate : 84210.530 mg/l
Magnesium Nitrate : 83333.340 mg/l
Ammonium Nitrate : 64546.000 mg/l
Potassium Nitrate : 43222.680 mg/l

CANNA AQUA FLORES A 3-0-6

Potassium Nitrate : 129668.000 mg/l
Calcium Nitrate : 78947.370 mg/l

CANNA AQUA FLORES B 0-4-3

Mono Potassium Phosphate : 76914.670 mg/l
Zn-chelated : 500.000 mg/l
Mo-Chelated : 412.500 mg/l

What a legend, thanks mate!

 

[az2000]

With the data you're collecting, it would be interesting to see all the brand's scheduled NPK ratios on a scatter chart.

That's what I wanted to reveal through a spreadsheet (that there's no "mystery" in the multi-bottle "lineups."). What I've seen so far is that there's not much difference in those abstracted, proprietary "systems."

Since you're creating a database of that info, it could be valuable to show them represented graphically like that. How they cluster by concentrations of certain nutrients. Like a "map" of the boutique "lineups."

You're going to be the Ralph Nader of cannabis cultivation! Seriously, I think what you're doing could become a standard reference.

 

[churchhaze]

This one is interesting and I just learned some people are bad at reporting what their guaranteed analysis is or just bad a mixing nutrient blends.

The database at http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilizers/FertDB/prodinfo.aspx?pname=5881 shows that it is a 3-2-6. Okay, no problem. But what they don't list there are calcium and sulfates. Here's the ionic bloom label: http://hdi.web2.webascender.com/media/wysiwyg/Documents/ionic/IonicBloomQT.JPG

Notice how it two of the compounds it's derived from are calcium nitrate and potassium sulfate there. A calcium sulfate precipitate will often form in the high concentrations these are made at. That is a huge waste. Seriously, go look at database again. No calcium and no sulfate in the guaranteed analysis.

In addition, they mix ammonium nitrate with the concentrated acid phosphoric acid. Hell, phosphoric acid is their only source of phosphorus. This MIGHT be bad. Never add a concentrated acid in with ammonium nitrate solution, specifically what is called AN-20, a liquid fertilizer form of ammonium nitrate. If they had pre-diluted everything, it wouldn't be so much of a problem.

I used to use Ionic's products over a decade ago. After doing some basic reverse engineering on their products, I came up with a lot of the same conclusions you did. It also seems like their formulas completely lack iron. (at least it's not included in the derived from section)

 

[churchhaze]

I'd also like to point out that GH micro hard water contains nitric acid to make up using less calcium nitrate. This means you'd need to include it as a base ingredient while reverse engineering.

It seems they have 2 versions of this product. Here's the msds I found on their website showing the product includes nitric acid.

http://generalhydroponics.com/site/gh/docs/prod_msds/FloraMicroHWMSDS.pdf

 

[churchhaze]

I think that kind of "outreach" and education has been what's been missing. As cannabis becomes less criminal, more novices are getting into growing, I think what Mr. Blah is doing will be extremely useful. People talk about how it's cheaper to DIY. But, how to do it hasn't been easily accessible. The learning curve has been unnecessarily steep. A "for the masses" source of information has been what's missing. I imagine Mr. Blah is contemplating that in addition to the data-driven formulas.

It's not just cheaper, it's very simple and EASIER than whatever you're doing... It seems very complicated because people like you add a lot of fluff, distraction, and doubt into any discussion that goes on about it. Any time a thread comes up on the subject, you post these wordy paragraphs despite a complete lack of experience using nitrate salt based nutes. You're probably missing the threads that are more to the point... The problem isn't education, it's that people won't understand this stuff if it's not crammed into a neat package for them to digest....

It's really simple.... pour half the ingredients into bottle A and pour the other half of the ingredients into bottle B, then fill the rest with water.

Keep trying to spin that.

 

[MisterBlah]

I'd also like to point out that GH micro hard water contains nitric acid to make up using less calcium nitrate. This means you'd need to include it as a base ingredient while reverse engineering.

It seems they have 2 versions of this product. Here's the msds I found on their website showing the product includes nitric acid.

http://generalhydroponics.com/site/gh/docs/prod_msds/FloraMicroHWMSDS.pdf

You can use nitric acid OR ammonium nitrate to provide a pure nitrogen source. You use nitric acid if you happen to need a lower pH. Otherwise, there isn't actually a right or wrong way to add one or the other. In most of the blends, I chose ammonium nitrate because it's less expensive to buy.

 

[MisterBlah]

A real live ME? HOT SHIT! Mind if I ask a few questions? (Not here)

I started a conversation with you, so ask away.

 

[green217]

GENERAL HYDROPONICS FLORA GRO 2-1-6
Potassium Nitrate: 115,296.60 mg/l
Magnesium Nitrate: 49,408.67 mg/l
Mono Potassium Phosphate: 19,228.66 mg/l

GENERAL HYDROPONICS FLORABLOOM 0-5-4
Potassium Nitrate : 115,296.60 mg/l
Magnesium Nitrate: 49408.67 mg/l
Mono Potassium Phosphate: 19228.66 mg/l

GENERAL HYDROPONICS FLORAMICRO 5-0-1
Calcium Nitrate: 263,157.90 mg/l
Potassium Nitrate: 21,611.34 mg/l
Ammonium Nitrate: 17,158.31 mg/l
Fe-chelated: 5,555.55 mg/l
Mn-chelated: 2,777.78 mg/l
Zn-chelated: 625.00 mg/l
Mo-Chelated: 100.00 mg/l

GENERAL HYDROPONICS HARDWATER FLORAMICRO 5-0-1
Calcium Nitrate: 113,106.30 mg/l
Potassium Nitrate: 21,611.34 mg/l
Ammonium Nitrate: 52,631.58 mg/l
Fe-chelated: 5,555.55 mg/l
Mn-chelated: 2,777.78 mg/l
Zn-chelated: 935.00 mg/l
Mo-Chelated: 225.00 mg/l

GENERAL HYDROPONICS MAXIGRO 10-5-14 (This is a solid blend, percentages, by weight, are listed)
Calcium Nitrate: 33.4535%
Potassium Nitrate: 22.1904%
Magnesium Sulfate: 21.6196%
Mono Potassium Phosphate: 10.1851%
Ammonium Nitrate: 6.9320%
Potassium Sulfate: 2.0419%
Fe-chelated: 0.7062%
Mn-chelated: 0.2943%
Zn-chelated: 0.0800%

GENERAL HYDROPONICS MAXIBLOOM 5-15-14 (This is a solid blend, percentages, by weight, are listed)
Calcium Nitrate: 27.8779%
Potassium Nitrate: 6.9821%
Magnesium Sulfate: 29.7889%
Mono Potassium Phosphate: 30.5552%
Magnesium Carbonate: 2.8159%
Potassium Sulfate: 2.0272%
Fe-chelated: 0.5885%
Zn-chelated: 0.0599%

Cultured Solutions UC Roots
This is a 0.028% solution of hypchlorous acid. Most likely created via a solution of sodium hypochlorite. There's been a fair amount of documentation in the hydroponics world about the uses and benefits of sodium hypochlorite. Look for them somewhere else.

To make your own 0.028% hypochlorous acid solution from a 12.5% sodium hypchlorite solution by weight (15% by volume), add 7mL per gallon.

12.5% sodium hypochlorite: 7mL/gal (1.86mL/L)

My brand here, I would love to save a few $'s. Ty for valuable info, op.

 

[Carolina Dream'n]

This one is interesting and I just learned some people are bad at reporting what their guaranteed analysis is or just bad a mixing nutrient blends.

The database at http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilizers/FertDB/prodinfo.aspx?pname=5881 shows that it is a 3-2-6. Okay, no problem. But what they don't list there are calcium and sulfates. Here's the ionic bloom label: http://hdi.web2.webascender.com/media/wysiwyg/Documents/ionic/IonicBloomQT.JPG

Notice how it two of the compounds it's derived from are calcium nitrate and potassium sulfate there. A calcium sulfate precipitate will often form in the high concentrations these are made at. That is a huge waste. Seriously, go look at database again. No calcium and no sulfate in the guaranteed analysis.

In addition, they mix ammonium nitrate with the concentrated acid phosphoric acid. Hell, phosphoric acid is their only source of phosphorus. This MIGHT be bad. Never add a concentrated acid in with ammonium nitrate solution, specifically what is called AN-20, a liquid fertilizer form of ammonium nitrate. If they had pre-diluted everything, it wouldn't be so much of a problem.

Ionic works great, have used it for a while now. Most ph stable nutrients I have ever used. So I'm just not getting what your saying about what they are doing wrong.

 

[MisterBlah]

Ionic works great, have used it for a while now. Most ph stable nutrients I have ever used. So I'm just not getting what your saying about what they are doing wrong.

It's not that it doesn't do something or doesn't work in the context that you've used it. As I've said before, plants grow under all sorts of conditions and pretty much everything will work for someone.

It's that based on what the claim it's made from and what the guaranteed analysis really is, I've come to the conclusion that they don't really know what they are doing when it comes to mixing nutrient blends. They got lucky with this product, basically. At least, that's how I interpret it.

 

[HydroNito305]

This will be the last post here for recipes. It's a pain to try to find these by searching through a thread. So, I'll have a website up sometime soon (within a month) with all this information and lots more recipes. I will also post on that website a lot more information on the theory behind creating your own as well as reverse engineering. I will include information related to water quality, soil quality, etc.

I removed a few of the GH products that weren't pure mineral fertilizers. I will come back to them later. These are product like Diamond Nectar that is based on humic acid, for example. I also removed Canna Boost as it is also not a mineral based fertilizer. It's an organic and I'm working on how to go about properly reverse engineering them. It's a bit more involved.

GENERAL HYDROPONICS LIQUID KOOLBLOOM 0-10-10

Phosphoric Acid : 2.389 mL/L
Dipotassium Phosphate : 18482.750 mg/L

GENERAL HYDROPONICS KOOLBLOOM 2-45-28

Mono Potassium Phosphate : 809634.500 mg/l
Magnesium Sulfate : 102040.800 mg/l
Mono Ammonium Phosphate : 46791.660 mg/l
Ammonium Nitrate : 37905.090 mg/l
Ammonium Sulfate : 7129.860 mg/l

DYNA-GRO FOLIAGE-PRO 9-3-6

Calcium Nitrate : 105263.200 mg/l
Potassium Nitrate : 86553.780 mg/l
Ammonium Nitrate : 163515.300 mg/l
Mono Potassium Phosphate : 57685.990 mg/l
Magnesium Nitrate : 52083.330 mg/l
Fe-chelated : 5555.550 mg/l
Cu-chelated : 2941.177 mg/l
Mn-chelated : 2777.780 mg/l
Zn-chelated : 2165.000 mg/l
Mo-Chelated : 62.500 mg/l

DYNA-GRO MAG-PRO 2-15-4

Mono Ammonium Phosphate : 125000.000 mg/l
Mono Potassium Phosphate : 115662.100 mg/l
Magnesium Sulfate : 115384.600 mg/l
Magnesium Nitrate : 81818.180 mg/l

DYNA-GRO LIQUID BLOOM 3-12-6

Mono Potassium Phosphate : 173493.100 mg/l
Calcium Nitrate : 110526.300 mg/l
Magnesium Nitrate : 55208.330 mg/l
Mono Ammonium Phosphate : 48133.090 mg/l
Fe-chelated : 5555.550 mg/l
Cu-chelated : 2941.177 mg/l
Mn-chelated : 2777.780 mg/l
Zn-chelated : 2500.000 mg/l
Bo-chelated : 1333.330 mg/l
Sodium Chloride : 1648.260 mg/l
Sodium Sulfate : 1799.763 mg/l
Sodium Molybdate : 23.000 mg/l

DYNA-GRO LIQUID GROW 7-9-5

Mono Potassium Phosphate : 144577.600 mg/l
Ammonium Nitrate : 63845.620 mg/l
Magnesium Nitrate : 52083.330 mg/l
Mono Ammonium Phosphate : 23944.570 mg/l
Fe-chelated : 5555.550 mg/l
Cu-chelated : 2941.177 mg/l
Mn-chelated : 2777.780 mg/l
Zn-chelated : 2000.000 mg/l
Sodium Chloride : 1648.260 mg/l
Sodium Sulfate : 1799.763 mg/l
Bo-chelated : 1333.330 mg/l
CAN-17 : 227611.000 mg/l
Sodium Molybdate : 23.000 mg/l

DYNA-GRO LIQUID PRO-TEKT 0-0-3

Potassium Silicate : 49105.070 mg/l
This is most likely actually 50,000mg/l, 50g/l.

CANNA AQUA VEGA B 0-3-4

Mono Potassium Phosphate : 57685.980 mg/l
Potassium Sulfate : 39336.040 mg/l
Zn-chelated : 550.000 mg/l
Mo-Chelated : 375.000 mg/l

CANNA AQUA VEGA A 5-0-2

Calcium Nitrate : 84210.530 mg/l
Magnesium Nitrate : 83333.340 mg/l
Ammonium Nitrate : 64546.000 mg/l
Potassium Nitrate : 43222.680 mg/l

CANNA AQUA FLORES A 3-0-6

Potassium Nitrate : 129668.000 mg/l
Calcium Nitrate : 78947.370 mg/l

CANNA AQUA FLORES B 0-4-3

Mono Potassium Phosphate : 76914.670 mg/l
Zn-chelated : 500.000 mg/l
Mo-Chelated : 412.500 mg/l

CANNA TERRA VEGA 2-1-3

Potassium Nitrate : 64834.040 mg/l
Ammonium Nitrate : 27312.710 mg/l
Mono Ammonium Phosphate : 16166.320 mg/l
Zn-chelated : 260.000 mg/l
Mo-Chelated : 162.500 mg/l

CANNA TERRA FLORES 2-2-4

Potassium Nitrate : 86445.360 mg/l
Ammonium Nitrate : 32332.630 mg/l
Mono Ammonium Phosphate : 12988.850 mg/l
Zn-chelated : 375.000 mg/l
Mo-Chelated : 300.000 mg/l

FOX FARM GROW BIG LIQUID PLANT FOOD 6-4-4

Ammonium Nitrate : 96881.310 mg/l
Potassium Nitrate : 86445.360 mg/l
Mono Ammonium Phosphate : 64665.300 mg/l
Magnesium Nitrate : 62500.000 mg/l
Fe-chelated : 5555.550 mg/l
Cu-chelated : 2941.177 mg/l
Mn-chelated : 2777.780 mg/l
Zn-chelated : 2500.000 mg/l
Bo-chelated : 1333.000 mg/l

FOX FARM GROW BIG HYDROPONIC PLANT FOOD 3-2-6

Calcium Nitrate : 105236.200 mg/l
Potassium Nitrate : 72322.450 mg/l
Magnesium Nitrate : 51502.610 mg/l
Dipotassium Phosphate : 49043.890 mg/l
Fe-chelated : 5555.550 mg/l
Cu-chelated : 2941.177 mg/l
Mn-chelated : 2777.780 mg/l
Zn-chelated : 2500.000 mg/l
Bo-chelated : 1333.000 mg/l

FOX FARM TIGER BLOOM 2-8-4

Mono Ammonium Phosphate : 80590.860 mg/l
Dipotassium Phosphate : 73931.000 mg/l
Magnesium Nitrate : 52083.330 mg/l
Ammonium Nitrate : 11062.370 mg/l
Fe-chelated : 6666.670 mg/l
Cu-chelated : 2941.177 mg/l
Mn-chelated : 3333.330 mg/l
Zn-chelated : 2500.000 mg/l
Bo-chelated : 1333.000 mg/l

FOX FARM OPEN SESAME 5-45-19 (This is a solid blend, percentages are given)


Mono Ammonium Phosphate : 42.721%
Mono Potassium Phosphate : 40.852%
Potassium Sulfate : 11.771%
Fe-chelated : 0.883%
Mn-chelated : 0.294%
Zn-chelated : 0.265%

FOX FARM CHA CHING 9-50-10 (This is a solid blend, percentages are given)

Mono Ammonium Phosphate : 59.876%
Mono Potassium Phosphate : 30.632%
Ammonium Nitrate : 6.674%
Fe-chelated : 0.589%
Cu-chelated : 0.312%
Mn-chelated : 0.294%
Zn-chelated : 0.265%
Bo-chelated : 0.141%

Also, I think I screwed up on the percentages in the other solid blends listed before here. I realized I was not properly doing copy/pasta with them so I wasn't doing a sum correctly. I'll update them later, or may just on the new website.

Do you happen to have the recipe for Cannazym by any chance?

 

[MisterBlah]

Do you happen to have the recipe for Cannazym by any chance?

Cannazym is not a typical mineral only fertilizer blend, so not yet. I'm going after the mineral based one first because they are the easiest and don't require me to do much else other than do math at my desk.