Cost-Breakdown of COB-Based Fixtures

littlejacob

littlejacob

Well-Known Member
Bonjour
Good question...how much electricity is saved when you compare a 94% efficient driver to a 84% (10% difference for convenience) for a perpetual 12/12 on a year?!?
It would be very interesting to know!
To compare prices in a different way!
Have a great day ★
 
robincnn

robincnn

Well-Known Member
@FranJan. Meanwell does deserve a little more credit. Good datasheets.
It is pretty easy to find Meanwell test reports online. They are pretty well detailed and make the datasheet look little conservative.
I do not think anyone would put out their drivers test reports in public unless they sure about their product.
http://www.meanwell.com/mw_search/hlg-120h/HLG-120H-42-RPT.PDF

I tested HLP-120h-42 at 120V and Vdc*Idc / Vac*Iac was around 93.5%
I thick Supra and Greengene tested APV-12-12 and its efficiency was in line with what was stated in datasheet.

Meanwell advertises on ledmagazine.com and seems like a good brand.
Meanwells capacitor life, MTBF, efficiency, low cost, warranty, AVAILABILITY everything looks good. This AC-DC driver technology is not that new.
Less to be gained by better driver and much more to be gained by better COB, heatsink and optics.
LED lights are already so expensive. Don't need cost of a fancy cree driver. I would rather save and buy meanwell driver and spend more money on the best COB for max efficiency and great cooling/optics.

I do agree that COB grow light manufacturers (since they have more resources$$) should explore all possible options for good drivers and not just stick with meanwell. We may be overselling meanwell on this forum.
 
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littlejacob

littlejacob

Well-Known Member
Bonjour
Does Cree create specific driver model who match perfectly their cobs?
I wonder why Cree cob seller do not propose drivers of the same brand to run them...even on cree website they should advertise for their driver on the cob page...if it was the case I would have consider to buy a cree driver
CU
 
FranJan

FranJan

Well-Known Member
littlejacob said:
Bonjour
Does Cree create specific driver model who match perfectly their cobs?
I wonder why Cree cob seller do not propose drivers of the same brand to run them...even on cree website they should advertise for their driver on the cob page...if it was the case I would have consider to buy a cree driver
CU
Click to expand...
Ask Wolfspeed and tell us what they say.
[Update] Cree Co-founder on RF and Power Business New Brand Identity and Market Trends

http://www.ledinside.com/interview/2015/9/cree_co_founder_on_rf_and_power_business_new_brand_identity_and_market_trends
​
Leading U.S. LED manufacturer Cree announced earlier this month, it will be rebranding its power and RF business as Wolfspeed. In an exclusive interview with LEDinside analyst and assistant manager Joanne Wu, Cree co-founder and CTO John Palmour spoke about the company’s rebranding strategy and current trends in the Radio Frequency (RF) and power market.

 
E

Eraserhead

Well-Known Member
How did you come up with those figures?

A single Vero 29 at 2.15a is 81.7w. You sell Vero 29s, you should know this.

At $174, the math is $174 ÷ 81.7w = $2.129 per dissipated watt. Not $2.21 like you said.

For 3, it is $500, the math would be $500 ÷ 245.1w (81.7x3 = 245.1) = $2.039 per dissipated watt. Not $2.12 like you said.

For 5, it is $818, the math would be $818 ÷ 408.5w (81.7x5 = 408.5) = $2.00 per dissipated watt. Not $2.08 like you said.

Even at 2.1a, your math is still off. Even 1 unit to 3 units to 5 units, your math is off.

Look:
$174 ÷ $2.21 = 78.73w
$500 ÷ $2.12 = (235.84 ÷ 3) = 78.61w
$818 ÷ $2.08 = (393.26 ÷ 5) =78.65w

How's the watts change just by adding identical units in a daisy chain?

AquariusPanta said:
Hello fellow members and whisps; today I have a few calculations I'd much enjoy sharing with you all!

Now that we've collectively witnessed a few new COB-based fixture crafting companies enter and leave the market, I think it's about time for us to breakdown and analyze the costs associated with those companies that remain! Enjoy!






View attachment 3522339

*All numbers from above associated with mentioned fixtures were determined with the use of - the data publicly given by their respective companies, the umol/J chart provided by @alesh, and the collective thread of efficiency spreadsheets started by @nogod (link). Additionally, besides Pacific Light Concept's CX300 (3500K/80CRI), all other fixtures were calculated as 3000K/80CRI.

From my personal observations, Pacific Light Concept offered the most honest, transparent data and yet used the least amount of wordage between the other companies. I would have included Optic's fixtures in this analysis but figured not to, as they don't have a live website anymore and I don't recommend anyone to buy something from any company over the internet without them having a live website, especially in 2015! If the new owners decide to relaunch a website for their products, I'll be more than happy to calculate the costs for their products.

Obviously there are many other factors to take into consideration when buying any given lighting fixture but these are some of the more important ones to take into account when buying something that, to quite a few, is an investment. On a upbeat side note, I once danced in the opaque, purple-LED market and luckily bounced out of it in time to make it to the COB-LED movement and I can positively say that things are looking brighter than ever for growers and plants alike!

If there are any other companies that I didn't include that you'd like me to list, just let me know! :)
Click to expand...
 
Stephenj37826

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
Eraserhead said:
How did you come up with those figures?

A single Vero 29 at 2.15a is 81.7w. You sell Vero 29s, you should know this.

At $174, the math is $174 ÷ 81.7w = $2.129 per dissipated watt. Not $2.21 like you said.

For 3, it is $500, the math would be $500 ÷ 245.1w (81.7x3 = 245.1) = $2.039 per dissipated watt. Not $2.12 like you said.

For 5, it is $818, the math would be $818 ÷ 408.5w (81.7x5 = 408.5) = $2.00 per dissipated watt. Not $2.08 like you said.

Even at 2.1a, your math is still off. Even 1 unit to 3 units to 5 units, your math is off.

Look:
$174 ÷ $2.21 = 78.73w
$500 ÷ $2.12 = (235.84 ÷ 3) = 78.61w
$818 ÷ $2.08 = (393.26 ÷ 5) =78.65w

How's the watts change just by adding identical units in a daisy chain?
Click to expand...
Is there a multiple unit discount?
 
AquariusPanta

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
@mc130p

They look like a sound company and their products even have detailed spec sheets! Based out of my state of birth?! Wtf?! Hah.

We should get a thread started soon showcasing different driver companies and how their products stack up against those similar products of their competitors.

@Eraserhead

Hey dude, thanks for the extra data. Your product page didn't include the current running into the Vero 29's, so I guessed that it was 2.1A rather than 2.15A. The costs associated with your product slightly went down in your favor.


Going back to written math and checking it, I found that I used CXA 3070 data instead of CXB 3070 data. My apologies to GoGreenLEDs for that error. It would appear that there is a 3000K AB spec sheet for CXA 3070 on page 9 of the COB efficiency spreadsheet thread and with it, no indication of whether it's CXA or CXB. There is, however, a sheet on the first page (doh) that has a listed 3000K CXB 3070 spec sheet.

Everything that has been requested has been added or modified for these following cost-breakdown sheets. If there is something off or something missing, please address it here and I'll do what I can do to perform a remedy. Also, @Greengenes707 - I'm assuming a current of 1.4A running through each of the COBs in the CX300. The product page for the CX300 doesn't appear to show that sort of data, so if my assumption is off, please correct me and I'll repost an updated version of the sheet.


Here they are:

Cost Breakdown of COB-Based Fixtures (Pt.1).png

Cost Breakdown of COB-Based Fixtures (Pt.2).png

One final note is that I noticed a discrepancy between what @alesh has posted in the past, a chart no less, and what he recently stated in the All Things Vero thread.

alesh said:
Vero 3000K produces in the 380-780nm range 4.94µmol/J while CXB 4000K only 4.68µmol/J (5.5% difference).
Click to expand...
Alesh's umol - J Chart.png

I'm not sure if things have been updated since that chart was established but any clarification would be greatly welcomed. Thanks.

P.S. prices for HB products are from the Shop, not from the Products page within the main site. The Product page will be edited in the next couple of days.
 
Stephenj37826

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
AquariusPanta said:
Thanks man.

Are they official? PM or link a URL or something? I don't know where to look.
Click to expand...
Not yet fellas. Stock in this week. Air cooled will be in the middle but standard case type will be decent in this comparison. Website is undergoing major overhaul. Air cooled will be most efficient though.
 
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Stephenj37826

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
AquariusPanta said:
That's cute. Almost everything is assumed in these calculations but are they very misleading? Naw.

@Stephenj37826

How exciting! Keep us up to date, will ya? :eyesmoke:
Click to expand...
Sure will website is down being redone by professional firm. Although I'm beginning to wonder about the professional part lol. Yeah I will be advertising next weekend here at riu and I'll have discount code system up and running.
 
Stephenj37826

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
AquariusPanta said:
@mc130p

They look like a sound company and their products even have detailed spec sheets! Based out of my state of birth?! Wtf?! Hah.

We should get a thread started soon showcasing different driver companies and how their products stack up against those similar products of their competitors.

@Eraserhead

Hey dude, thanks for the extra data. Your product page didn't include the current running into the Vero 29's, so I guessed that it was 2.1A rather than 2.15A. The costs associated with your product slightly went down in your favor.


Going back to written math and checking it, I found that I used CXA 3070 data instead of CXB 3070 data. My apologies to GoGreenLEDs for that error. It would appear that there is a 3000K AB spec sheet for CXA 3070 on page 9 of the COB efficiency spreadsheet thread and with it, no indication of whether it's CXA or CXB. There is, however, a sheet on the first page (doh) that has a listed 3000K CXB 3070 spec sheet.

Everything that has been requested has been added or modified for these following cost-breakdown sheets. If there is something off or something missing, please address it here and I'll do what I can do to perform a remedy. Also, @Greengenes707 - I'm assuming a current of 1.4A running through each of the COBs in the CX300. The product page for the CX300 doesn't appear to show that sort of data, so if my assumption is off, please correct me and I'll repost an updated version of the sheet.


Here they are:

View attachment 3523631

View attachment 3523632

One final note is that I noticed a discrepancy between what @alesh has posted in the past, a chart no less, and what he recently stated in the All Things Vero thread.



View attachment 3523633

I'm not sure if things have been updated since that chart was established but any clarification would be greatly welcomed. Thanks.

P.S. prices for HB products are from the Shop, not from the Products page within the main site. The Product page will be edited in the next couple of days.
Click to expand...

One thing I would change is umol/J column. You need to multiply that number by the efficiency to get actual umol/J figures. That still doesn't account for lens/reflector losses or driver losses. Or cooling fans.
 
Stephenj37826

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
JimmyIndica said:
I am still trying to figure out what to take from comparing fixtures based on price per watt/price per par watt?
Every fixture is built to different standards /quality components used.
Click to expand...
Yes I agree. I guess this will help people judge on how much each photon is costing then in the end. Still everyone who has gone so far as to look at these charts will probably look at components used as well.
 
bicit

bicit

Well-Known Member
Buying a light based on price per photon(watt/parwatt/ect) is like looking at 5 different makes of cars and buying one based on price per horse power alone. Sure you could do that, but do you really want a go-cart with a 7-liter V8, open cab, and steel bucket seats? Some do, but that is not typical of most people.

I'm not sure what the point of this thread was other than to stir the pot.
 
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