skunkushybrid
New Member
Ricky' I feel for your loss.
In my country that guy would have been charged with murder, and quite rightly so.
In my country that guy would have been charged with murder, and quite rightly so.
Gun Control
- Thread starter skunkushybrid
- Start date
skunkushybrid
New Member
I'm glad you pointed that out Vi'.
Smirgen
Well-Known Member
Heres what ABC is now saying about gun control, This story surprises me because ABC news has been anti gun for a decade....Looks like they have decided to wise up.
ABC News: Gun Control Isn't Crime Control
Heres an excerpt :
After the 1997 shooting of 16 kids in Dunblane, England, the United Kingdom passed one of the strictest gun-control laws in the world, banning its citizens from owning almost all types of handguns. Britain seemed to get safer by the minute, as 162,000 newly-illegal firearms were forked over to British officials by law-abiding citizens.
But this didn't decrease the amount of gun-related crime in the U.K. In fact, gun-related crime has nearly doubled in the U.K. since the ban was enacted.
ABC News: Gun Control Isn't Crime Control
Heres an excerpt :
After the 1997 shooting of 16 kids in Dunblane, England, the United Kingdom passed one of the strictest gun-control laws in the world, banning its citizens from owning almost all types of handguns. Britain seemed to get safer by the minute, as 162,000 newly-illegal firearms were forked over to British officials by law-abiding citizens.
But this didn't decrease the amount of gun-related crime in the U.K. In fact, gun-related crime has nearly doubled in the U.K. since the ban was enacted.
skunkushybrid
New Member
Of course it has, but only with the gangstas (sic.). We don't get people walking into classrooms and killing little kids anymore. I don't shed a tear for theses gun toting fools gunning each other down. What really gets to me is when innocent little kids are slaughtered. Check the stats on that.
Smirgen
Well-Known Member
skunkushybrid
The truth is that since law abiding brits have surrendered their guns The criminals who didnt are taking advantage of it and committing even more crimes with their now illegal guns and newfound courage knowing that most anybody that they break in on are unarmed and helpless.
The bottom line is that banning guns will only result in empowering the criminals and put law abiding citizens at their whim as proven by VT's Gun free zone which prohibited law abiding citizens from defending themselves with equal force and by Britians 200% increase in gun related crimes since their gun ban.
The proofs in the pudding as they say.
Sorry skunkushybrid , no sale , your not fooling me with that "The gun crime in Britain has increased two fold and only gangstas are suffering for it"
The truth is that since law abiding brits have surrendered their guns The criminals who didnt are taking advantage of it and committing even more crimes with their now illegal guns and newfound courage knowing that most anybody that they break in on are unarmed and helpless.
The bottom line is that banning guns will only result in empowering the criminals and put law abiding citizens at their whim as proven by VT's Gun free zone which prohibited law abiding citizens from defending themselves with equal force and by Britians 200% increase in gun related crimes since their gun ban.
The proofs in the pudding as they say.
skunkushybrid
New Member
Mostly the gangstas, some innocent bystanders now and again. The criminals that are burgling people's homes are not armed with guns, the criminals mugging people aren't packing either. That leaves the armed robbers and gangstas. Armed robbers will only use the guns to rob jewellery stores, pawnbrokers... shit like that. These places would get robbed anyway and in fact they are less likely to see any violence when a shooter is involved. I myself have never felt the need for a gun, there are better ways than just walking into a place and threatening to shoot them if they don't give you the money.
As far as I'm concerned the biggest danger are the so-called 'normal' citizens. It's these that go psycho one day and take out a classroom full of kids, not muggers, burglars, armed robbers etc.
7xstall
Well-Known Member
there has never been a "normal" person go psycho and kill people. there are always plenty of signs and warnings that were ignored.
this is why i stated many many posts back that our mental health system needs work. it should be mandatory that entries are made on background checks when you are treated for certain illnesses.
that would make a huge difference.
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this is why i stated many many posts back that our mental health system needs work. it should be mandatory that entries are made on background checks when you are treated for certain illnesses.
that would make a huge difference.
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7xstall
Well-Known Member
skunkushybrid
New Member
Really? Don't we modify ourselves not to kill people? When we first walked the earth with understanding there was no such crime as murder. If your statement were true then we would all be potential murderers. If our future is to be one of peace then we all need to modify ourselves.
medicineman
New Member
7xstall
Well-Known Member
we have made efficient killing a top priority from the start.
soldiers in the state of florida are flying drones armed with Hellfire missiles over Iraq right now. they can kill large groups of people on the other side of the planet with the push of a button.
the dilemma is that we get so good at it that we have to try it out. we keep getting better at it in hopes that a would be attacker will talk himself out of it before we have to go through with killing him.
modifying ourselves does not involve modifying the presence or lack of objects in our world, only our purpose. this is the key.
and yes, we are all potential killers. either by doing nothing or by doing something we all kill someone sometime.
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soldiers in the state of florida are flying drones armed with Hellfire missiles over Iraq right now. they can kill large groups of people on the other side of the planet with the push of a button.
the dilemma is that we get so good at it that we have to try it out. we keep getting better at it in hopes that a would be attacker will talk himself out of it before we have to go through with killing him.
modifying ourselves does not involve modifying the presence or lack of objects in our world, only our purpose. this is the key.
and yes, we are all potential killers. either by doing nothing or by doing something we all kill someone sometime.
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skunkushybrid
New Member
I said potential murderers.
Yet, modifying the objects or lack thereof sends out a message. A message that says killing is wrong and we are going to stop it. Makes people realise, makes them think. Gandhi fought fire with peace and won. If we continue to fight fire with fire we are heading for extinction.
We all know that peace is the right way. Let's make a start.
Med', your store clerk argument with a gun doesn't work. People are desperate for money and they know the guy has a gun (as in your world every store owner would have a gun beneath the counter), what're they going to do? If they fuck up the robbery one of them could get hurt. What would you do med'? Put yourself in the shoes of the robbers for a second, it's easy, they think with the same thing we do. How would you do it?
Me, I'd use some sort of distraction then hit the guy hard, really hard. Gotta make sure he stays down.
Now, how would you do it if you know the store owner doesn't have a gun?
Yet, modifying the objects or lack thereof sends out a message. A message that says killing is wrong and we are going to stop it. Makes people realise, makes them think. Gandhi fought fire with peace and won. If we continue to fight fire with fire we are heading for extinction.
We all know that peace is the right way. Let's make a start.
Med', your store clerk argument with a gun doesn't work. People are desperate for money and they know the guy has a gun (as in your world every store owner would have a gun beneath the counter), what're they going to do? If they fuck up the robbery one of them could get hurt. What would you do med'? Put yourself in the shoes of the robbers for a second, it's easy, they think with the same thing we do. How would you do it?
Me, I'd use some sort of distraction then hit the guy hard, really hard. Gotta make sure he stays down.
Now, how would you do it if you know the store owner doesn't have a gun?
7xstall
Well-Known Member
yeah, it sends a message alright: "you aren't responsible. we do not trust you with the human right of self defense against armed criminals. we like you better disarmed. we will take care of you."
so, taking guns makes people realize that killing is wrong, tells them we're going to stop the killing. sounds reactive to me, to say the least. kind of silly actually. what's wrong with pro-actively teaching kids that it's wrong to kill? why not keep mentally ill people from buying guns?
tell me something, in your world view is it always "wrong" for sane, balanced, non-violent, intelligent people to own guns, SKH? you've said that the only purpose of guns is to kill, though i own many and have never killed a person. why is being disarmed so integral to what you see as a peaceful future?
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so, taking guns makes people realize that killing is wrong, tells them we're going to stop the killing. sounds reactive to me, to say the least. kind of silly actually. what's wrong with pro-actively teaching kids that it's wrong to kill? why not keep mentally ill people from buying guns?
tell me something, in your world view is it always "wrong" for sane, balanced, non-violent, intelligent people to own guns, SKH? you've said that the only purpose of guns is to kill, though i own many and have never killed a person. why is being disarmed so integral to what you see as a peaceful future?
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skunkushybrid
New Member
I want us all to be disarmed. Even the 'they' we can't help but refer to in such a way. As though there is an us and them. There is only us, maybe the one-mind we share has many different perspectives on reality, but in the end we are all the same.
People aren't born mentally ill, it's something that develops. Besides, the signs could be something as simple as depression... to my mind this is the most dangerous as it leads to other psycho' disorders... so then these guys (it's usually men) that feel sorry for themselves (I accept that bereavements can cause depression too) end up murdering their own family or letting loose in a shopping mall. If you take away the guns they have to resort to knives and the like (most people don't have the wherewithall to make a bomb), much easier to survive a stab wound, much easier to defend yourself against a blade.
Guns are designed to kill, that's what they were and are made for. Just like nuclear weapons, to my mind they are one and the same. A nuclear weapon has the propensity to take out large cities, thousands maybe millions of lives. A gun, for the most part, takes one at a time. Yet each life is a life, they're not some bad guy's goon in a film, the type that can die by the hundreds and you don't bat an eyelid. Each life matters. Each life is you and me.
I see your point. I honestly do. You imagine chaos, you imagine that you would suddenly become weak if you were to turn in your guns.
You have read smirgens post that pointed out gun crime has risen 200% since prohibition in my country, and it is a very valid point. Yet who is suffering with this increase in gun crime? Not your average citizen. People are still being burgled, even a lot of the armed robberies are commited using other tools. Normal citizens are rarely getting shot, and when they do it's when they are caught in a crossfire from rival gangs. Even carrying a gun would not stop you catching that ricocheted bullet.
ViRedd
New Member
Skunk ...
Do you believe in property rights? My human body is the most important piece of propertty that I own. Here in the U.S., we have the GOD given rights to life, liberty and property. This means that we have the right to protect those liberties. Without the rights to protect those liberties, we wouldn't have the liberties, would we? Now, in the U.S., everyone except the mentally ill and government statists fervently believe that our rights do not come from government, but from the Creator. With that in mind, how can we, in good conscious, allow government bureaucrats to disarm us?
Who endows the citizens of your country with your rights? I think that may explain the difference in our thinking on the gun issue.
Vi
Do you believe in property rights? My human body is the most important piece of propertty that I own. Here in the U.S., we have the GOD given rights to life, liberty and property. This means that we have the right to protect those liberties. Without the rights to protect those liberties, we wouldn't have the liberties, would we? Now, in the U.S., everyone except the mentally ill and government statists fervently believe that our rights do not come from government, but from the Creator. With that in mind, how can we, in good conscious, allow government bureaucrats to disarm us?
Who endows the citizens of your country with your rights? I think that may explain the difference in our thinking on the gun issue.
Vi
skunkushybrid
New Member
I'd appreciate religion being kept out of this one. There is no god, Vi.
Who endows the citizens of my country with rights? We do Vi', we do. There is no us and them, only us.
Who endows the citizens of my country with rights? We do Vi', we do. There is no us and them, only us.
What a strawman argument.
HOW THE HELL WOULD THERE BE MANY INCIDENTS OF MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC USING FIREARMS IN "FAMILY CRIME" (whatever that implies) OR SELF DEFENSE WHEN BY YOUR OWN WORDS Y'ALL ARREST PEOPLE FOR KILLING CRIMINALS?!
Oh yes, the "for the children..." card. KNOW WHAT'S EVEN MORE SCARY?
More American children die from swimming pools each year than guns.
Quick, join my crusade to outlaw swimming pools and all standing spots of water!
As I've said before on this forum, most laws are a bandaid solution for lack of morals and common sense, and are like putting pennies in place of fuses in a circuit breaker.
Yeah thank goodness, because Jean Charles de Menezes will be the first to let everyone know just how awesome it is in England that only certain special police have guns and none of the peasants are allowed to. Oh wait, he was gunned down by the police in the Stockwell tube station and thus isn't around to tell us how awesome everything is. Damn, back to the drawing board.