Jeeyah
Well-Known Member
Exactly. I can't find anything decent besides Area 51. And, if he's putting Vero COB's in the new one they will be so awesome.
Did Area 51 Drop The W100?
- Thread starter DogKnot
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If you look at the AdvancedLED web site longer, you'll see the XTE and XML lights are Cree and (as far as I know) not veg only. If you still think they're veg only, explain why.
You can buy Cree "lightbulbs" and PAR38 spots/floods from Home Depot. I've had great results using them. They're not as efficient (lumens per watt) as the more efficient fixtures you can buy. But, usually you'd run those fixtures around 35w/sq ft. I haven't run the Home Depot lights that strong yet. I did 20-22w/sq ft and got very good results for that level of light. (See link).
SpectrumKingLED uses Cree XBD diodes (like the Cree lightbulbs which are XBD).
Cree's not the only maker of efficient diodes. Osram (Bonsai/Hans), Philips (Grow Northern). Rapid/Onyx and PlantPhotonics use one of these brands, but I forget which.
Bridgelux and Epistar could be up there too, but they don't seem to be chosen much by the makers of efficient fixtures. The problem with epistar is that the supply chain is unreliable. There's so much garbage epi-whatever diodes floating around in China that you don't know what you're getting. Dies encapsulated by individual light makers to unknown standards. (It's so bad the Chinese government recently mandated the nation's LED market clean up its act this year. Hopefully consumers will benefit, and competitors will be motivated to innovate further.).
The most important thing to keep in mind is: If a maker doesn't say what they use, or if they mention multiple things including epistar, you should assume they're using epistar. I would especially assume that with any company like PlatinumLED or HydroGrowLED who have extremely shady reputations (name ripoff, threatening to grass out unhappy customers).
Personally, I don't think these things matter as much as others think they do. I've had good results under Chinese imports (using epi-whatever diodes). More heat, but they grew well. I'm having good results under consumer cree bulbs even though people think they're inefficient.
I would just stay away from the rebranded Chinese imports like Lush, Kind, HydrogrowLED, Blackdog, Growblu, Platinum. They'll grow well, but for the money spent on their secret sauce hyperbole, you can do better. I think the key thing is sidelighting. I think distributing light from many angles (a labor expense) creates much more efficiency than you can get from a diode.
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tstick
Well-Known Member
No.
You're having trouble understanding the difference between their (his…whatever) advertised policy and what became of it.
He dropped the prices for everyone. Yes. I understand that. Those prices became the new general prices. -I got it. That still has nothing to do with a return-customer discount.
You're saying that what he did was to transmute that specialized-discount into the general price list. You have communicated that. But, that being the case, I don't agree with that policy and my opinion is that it's a sketchy thing to do. It ignores the fact that I had already given them (by paying full retail price for my first light) what now ends up being more than any discount would defer. lmfao!
I paid $500 for my first light and got a $50 incentive to spend on a future purchase
He dropped the price to $400 a few months later -not a sale or a discount -just the general price list.
So, at that point, I already paid $100 more for the same light that's now selling for $400. Essentiially, I already paid more than average. But, it's all good because the prices got lowered AND I have a return-customer discount as an added incentive! Yay! *cough*
Stay with me, now…just a little bit more…
I go to make a second purchase with my previous $50 incentive…but no! No code! Gone!
So, he's already made $100 more off of me than the average customer and I can't defer any of that to a future purchase with my return-customer discount, either -because it's gone. He changed his policy. Is the $100 all the money in the world? No. But it's a fucked-up thing to do, regardless. -Principle!
If I were to have purchased a second light, then I'd be into the game for roughly $900 for two lights ($500 for my first one and $400 for the second). While you (anyone) starting a new purchase would be into it for $800 for the same two lights. Even if I had the discount code that I expected, then I'd still be into it for $850 ($500 + $350). So, "Do I care what anyone else pays"? Yeah! If everyone else is paying less! I'm looking to pay the least amount -always!
At the time, there was nothing on the FAQ page about the policy change and he never responded to my email, either. I was anxious to get the second light. That's when I started researching some different lights to buy…but I also continued to check the A51 site, too…mainly because I liked the product and was trying to talk myself into staying loyal to a company that didn't really seem to give a shit what I thought….(but I'm better, now!)
He eventually added "the" question to the FAQ page -and his "answer".
I was glad he dropped his prices in general. Great! But it seems he did so by getting rid of the return-customer discount -which disregards the people who have already invested their business with him. He doesn't have to pay back that money to return customers anymore! -thus, the lower prices! Slick! Now, everybody (well…not everybody) benefits!
And then the whole attitude thing about the criticism of his method…I don't appreciate it and won't do business with people who act like that. Someone will reverse-engineer an A51 light and give Jeff some competition in the same price range -except without the autistic customer relations. "The Soup Nazi of LEDs"! HAHAHA! I guess so!
Some people don't get it. Some people get it but don't care. Still, others aren't even invested, but they just like to go to discussion forums and bark like nervous, little dogs. To each their own.
Why does it have nothing to do with the return-customer discount? You're getting the same price as you would have under the older, higher pricing scheme. He stated he discontinued that scheme and now gives the same discount to everyone for their first light.
Your problem is you want it both ways.
1. It's been suggested more than once that you ask Jeff if you can buy the light under the old price scheme, using the discount you were given under that scheme.
You say that won't do. You must have the newer pricing.
2. It's been explained that the newer pricing is the discounted pricing. Everyone gets the coupon (built into the price).
You say that won't do. You must have the discounted pricing discounted further.
The only suggestion in this thread which speaks to your position is that we take up a collection and reimburse you for the expense of your first light. Make it like it never happened so you can resume buying A51 lights at the price you expected to buy them at.
I apologize if I'm being mean. But, your position isn't equitable. Worse, it's counter-productive to your own interests (locking yourself out of arguably the best consumer grow light, the least BS'ing company, etc.).
If I were you I'd chalk it up to "we win a few, lose a few." The program changed. You're getting future lights at the price you expected. There is no other way to look at it.
Ditto
BTW: There's not much to reverse engineer. Jeff publishes the actual part numbers for anyone to use. He's been in threads on this site where he publishes the factories he buys his cases from, etc. He's offered to give people drivers.
This is why I think you're proverbially cutting your nose off to spite yourself. You're not going to find many (any?) grow light companies like this. This is more like a community member making lights for you.
That business model may not be ideal as Jeff gains more customers. Maybe he should be more like a profit-motivated company to avoid this kind of "I'm the customer, I should get what I want." I think we'll lose something if that happens. That's why i wish you (and others who will undoubtedly get upset about something small) would loosen up. Or, I wish Jeff would make it clearer how he's not the typical for-profit business (and encourage those who expect a consumer-oriented "experience" go look elsewhere.).
Abiqua
Well-Known Member
Things are subject to change....Contracts are literally made to be broken, was this even an "in writing" contract? I still have seen nothing that promised the New "old" discount into perpetuity......
Build the light fixture yourself and move on. It would already cost you less than the cost difference you are complaining about....problem solved....
Whip....meat dead horse
Build the light fixture yourself and move on. It would already cost you less than the cost difference you are complaining about....problem solved....
Whip....meat dead horse
tstick
Well-Known Member
Because it's a specialized discount meant for specific customers who have already invested in the past. It's separate from all other discounts. It has nothing to do with what he decides to make his general price list. But, what he has done is to take those discounts that were meant for already-invested customers and reallocate that money for his own benefit. He doesn't have to pay any discounts back anymore because he took back the money and spent it in a different way than what was advertised. That's a questionable business practice, in my opinion. yeah..I know, I know…"Why don't I start my own company, then?…" I've heard it all before.
tstick
Well-Known Member
Well, then I'll look forward to the day when I see a company that builds a similar light AND adds great customer service to it. Again, for about the billionth time…I never questioned the quality of the product.
tstick
Well-Known Member
Tell that to the car dealer the next time you buy a new car.
Then why do you balk using the discount with the original (undiscounted) pricing?
This is why it seems you want it both ways. In one breath you say the deal you were offered (and which encouraged you to buy your first light) was separate from any future deals. Months (years?) later a new discount was enacted which was built into the price. You say the old deal must be applied to that.
This will probably be my last post since I can't think of a better way to explain it to you (and you're not going to accept this explanation).
I understand your position that it would be nice to get a little something just to recognize you had a stake in the old program. I recognize some consumers need that extra help to feel they are valued as a consumer. Jeff doesn't conduct his business that way, feeling like he's more "one of us" and doesn't need to coddle people for them to see the value he provides. Whether his volume of business has exceeded the usefulness of that model, I don't know.
Abiqua
Well-Known Member
meaning what? I have bought new cars, not that they are worth it, and I have seen people renege on new car contracts both dealers and buyers......
tstick
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I didn't realize he ran the business out of his van down by the river! My bad! Now I know, though. Thanks.
tstick
Well-Known Member
Because the lights are no longer available, for starters. Secondly, why should I have to refer to the old general price list? The discount is IN ADDITION TO ANY OTHER DISCOUNTS. Do you understand what that means?
Because you said: "It's separate from all other discounts. It has nothing to do with what he decides to make his general price list."
I don't have anything more to say. Good luck.
tstick
Well-Known Member
You're being obtuse. This isn't about how it's cool for people to break contracts. lol jeezuz
Eraserhead
Well-Known Member
You're still getting well over $50 off from the original price that you paid long time ago.
Would you feel better if the prices were raised $50, so you can put in a coupon code just to take it back off?
The very reason the coupon codes were dropped and applied to everyone, because new customers knew they could get the light for at least $50 cheaper, and many, many people asked for it. Instead of having hundreds of people emailing asking for the coupon code, it is easier just to lower the price for everyone. Since buying power increased on A51's end, there is no need to charge what was charged last year or the year before.
And if you ever expected a light for $350, it won't ever happen, just for the record, NO ONE, not even A51 gets them for $350.
I think I'll raise the prices to $1'000'000, and make a coupon code for $999'580 off...
Also, about me being the "boogyman", I kinda like that. In reality though, the A51 customer list is in the 2000s, and there's been maybe 5 people that got sent home with no light.
And no, I do not run a business in a van down by the river, that's just asinine. There's a warehouse in Nile, MI. There's a 2500sq ft workshop in WV on my 12 acres of land. The lights ship from Niles because it is faster and more centrally located than the mountains where I live.
Anything else?
Would you feel better if the prices were raised $50, so you can put in a coupon code just to take it back off?
The very reason the coupon codes were dropped and applied to everyone, because new customers knew they could get the light for at least $50 cheaper, and many, many people asked for it. Instead of having hundreds of people emailing asking for the coupon code, it is easier just to lower the price for everyone. Since buying power increased on A51's end, there is no need to charge what was charged last year or the year before.
And if you ever expected a light for $350, it won't ever happen, just for the record, NO ONE, not even A51 gets them for $350.
I think I'll raise the prices to $1'000'000, and make a coupon code for $999'580 off...
Also, about me being the "boogyman", I kinda like that. In reality though, the A51 customer list is in the 2000s, and there's been maybe 5 people that got sent home with no light.
And no, I do not run a business in a van down by the river, that's just asinine. There's a warehouse in Nile, MI. There's a 2500sq ft workshop in WV on my 12 acres of land. The lights ship from Niles because it is faster and more centrally located than the mountains where I live.
Anything else?
tstick
Well-Known Member
Well then you can keep your typing mouth shut and read what I have to say. That's actually preferable to me at this point.
What a spin artist, man! You know as well as I do that I meant the return-customer discount was above and beyond whatever the current prices were listed at. Go back to your freshman psych 101 class and try to impress someone else. damn!
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