Sea-of-Green: Grams per inch thread

[Soulkipper]

Let's put some figures together and gear this thread towards maximizing yield per area available.
1. Veg time / height / node count
2. Flower finishing height / weight per capita
3. Analysis of the results to determine the best quotient for growing a short stack of plants!

.........................

To Be Continued...

 

[Hot Diggity Sog]

Let's put some figures together and gear this thread towards maximizing yield per area available.
1. Veg time / height / node count
2. Flower finishing height / weight per capita
3. Analysis of the results to determine the best quotient for growing a short stack of plants!

.........................

To Be Continued...

I have an experiment going that will attempt to provide information on exactly this.

 

[PetFlora]

2 important items

quality of nutes/ grow medium
quality of lights

followed by room temps and RH

The definer is umoles/m^/sec which most lights fail miserably at

 

[Hot Diggity Sog]

2 important items

quality of nutes/ grow medium
quality of lights

followed by room temps and RH

The definer is umoles/m^/sec which most lights fail miserably at

It's only going to be as good as the weakest link so you have to take every aspect into account.

 

[Hot Diggity Sog]

2 important items

quality of nutes/ grow medium
quality of lights

followed by room temps and RH

The definer is umoles/m^/sec which most lights fail miserably at

What are your thoughts on this analysis:
Photosynthetic response of Cannabis sativa L. to variations in photosynthetic photon flux densities, temperature and CO2 conditions:
http://home.olemiss.edu/~suman/PhysiologyandMol.Biol.2008.pdf

Among other things it states:
"...the maximum rate of photosynthesis
(PN max) was observed at 30 oC and under 1500 µmol m-2s-1 PPFD."

Optimal lumen/sq. ft. (after converting µmol to lux to lumen) is 11,427 lumen/square foot
400w CMH is 38,400 lumen/sq. ft @ 1 ft.
400w CMH is 17,100 lumen/sq. ft @ 1.5 ft.
400w CMH is 12,500 lumen/sq. ft @ 1.75 ft. (most plants are around this distance.)
400w CMH is 11,700 lumen/sq. ft @ 1.80 ft. (Here's as close to optimal as it gets. Many plants are here.)
400w CMH is 10,400 lumen/sq. ft @ 1.92 sq. ft (distance to the back side of the corner plants.)

Thoughts?

 

[PetFlora]

Scanning the 411, it seems sound

I do not use CO2 but am a small grower. My plants get ample CO2 from my visits

It does cost $$$ to get 1200-1500 umoles across an entire canopy

I will be getting 3 more Solar Spec 260s (LEDs) to cover a 4 x 4 tent quite evenly

CMH is a great choice

 

[hyroot]

What are your thoughts on this analysis:
Photosynthetic response of Cannabis sativa L. to variations in photosynthetic photon flux densities, temperature and CO2 conditions:
http://home.olemiss.edu/~suman/PhysiologyandMol.Biol.2008.pdf

Among other things it states:
"...the maximum rate of photosynthesis
(PN max) was observed at 30 oC and under 1500 µmol m-2s-1 PPFD."

Optimal lumen/sq. ft. (after converting µmol to lux to lumen) is 11,427 lumen/square foot
400w CMH is 38,400 lumen/sq. ft @ 1 ft.
400w CMH is 17,100 lumen/sq. ft @ 1.5 ft.
400w CMH is 12,500 lumen/sq. ft @ 1.75 ft. (most plants are around this distance.)
400w CMH is 11,700 lumen/sq. ft @ 1.80 ft. (Here's as close to optimal as it gets. Many plants are here.)
400w CMH is 10,400 lumen/sq. ft @ 1.92 sq. ft (distance to the back side of the corner plants.)

Thoughts?

Lumens mean absolutely nothing to plant growth. Lighting for plants is measured by PAR (µmole/s) and CRI

grab one of these

Apogee Instruments

 

[grievous bodily harm]

maximum yield per m3 in a short growing area ( less than 6ft high) = sea of green growing ( lots of single cola plants)
maximum yield per m3 in a tall but confined growing space = vertical grow ( lots of single cola plants stacked on shelves)
maximum yield per m3 in a large grow area ( warehouse/ full room grow) = large plants ( around 4 per light with a decent veg)

this is my opinion, based purely on my own experience.

vertical grows done right will far out yield any horizontal grow. large scale grows should be kept as simple and foolproof as possible so i choose to run less plants, especially if i have dedicated veg area, makes life so much easier.

 

[PetFlora]

Sea of green, from my understanding, is less than 3 ft tall, but tightly packed

 

[Soulkipper]

So what are some average sizes/yields for these 3ft seas of green?

 

[Soulkipper]

and how many nodes do these need before going into 12/12?

 

[grievous bodily harm]

it is purely strain dependant. i have flipped plants at 5" tall with no nodes, just a stick with a leaf set on the top, these are generally high yielding strains from the skunk family. other varieties can grow very little in flower so need that boost in veg before being flipped.

ideally you should have grown the strain a couple of times to get to learn how it behaves. i currently grow my plants quite big but in the past i have grown up to 20 per 600w light, whilst i do prefer the large yields i get these days i do find that when you grow smaller plants you will end up with more quality buds overall as nearly all buds will be getting direct light and will be a main cola.


so the short answer to your question is: there is no specific way to guarantee the results you will get based on theory, you have to just do it and see for yourself. the more knowledge you have on a strain the more you can manipulate it to do what it is that YOU want.

 

[Soulkipper]

that was a heavily bull shitted post. add figures to it -- each strain matters.

 

[grievous bodily harm]

your attitude is all wrong. if you want people to offer honest and helpful advice you are going about it in a fucked up way.

maybe take a little trip to noob central and ask there but i'm sure there isn't going to be many people offering you help if you keep talking shit like that.

 

[Mad Hamish]

The aim in SoG is a zip per plant. Going straight to flower from clone, NO veg time. The high numbers come from continuously cropping, keeping enough plants in rotation at all times. The lack of veg time is part of what makes a kicking SoG more efficient than most other methods. No matter what you are going to need to dial it in per strain. Thickness of stalks at cloning determines amount of roots and how fast they can form. This in turn affects vigor, and yield. Choosing a type that naturally grows only one huge cola is te way to go. Bushy types take a lot of finangling to dial in, you will find that some do better stripped of all but the top node, some with three, etc. It is all about your choice on genetics and ow you manage the phemotype. For example if you are going to grow an Affy cut back on N to promote bud a as opposed to huge leaves. Etc etc etc. Too many variables to make mention of. Good luck with your quest.

 

[Hot Diggity Sog]

The aim in SoG is a zip per plant. Going straight to flower from clone, NO veg time. The high numbers come from continuously cropping, keeping enough plants in rotation at all times. The lack of veg time is part of what makes a kicking SoG more efficient than most other methods. No matter what you are going to need to dial it in per strain. Thickness of stalks at cloning determines amount of roots and how fast they can form. This in turn affects vigor, and yield. Choosing a type that naturally grows only one huge cola is te way to go. Bushy types take a lot of finangling to dial in, you will find that some do better stripped of all but the top node, some with three, etc. It is all about your choice on genetics and ow you manage the phemotype. For example if you are going to grow an Affy cut back on N to promote bud a as opposed to huge leaves. Etc etc etc. Too many variables to make mention of. Good luck with your quest.

I think this is the best answer. There are so many ways to achieve a desired result. Large plants waste space and/or time.

 

[hyroot]

I think this is the best answer. There are so many ways to achieve a desired result. Large plants waste space and/or time.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo
if you have a perpetual garden no time is wasted. .Big plants also come into play with legal plant limits. The more roots the more fruits. You will get more off a 10 gal with bigger buds vs 4 3gals in the same space.

 

[purplehays1]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo
if you have a perpetual garden no time is wasted. .Big plants also come into play with legal plant limits. The more roots the more fruits. You will get more off a 10 gal with bigger buds vs 4 3gals in the same space.

i have a tiny tent, 2x2 and i find that a single plant with a long veg is the best way to maximize it. I am sure i could achieve similar results with 6 plants in a SOG in the 2x2 space, but i have a 6 plant limit and have a veg/flower setup.

 

[Mad Hamish]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo
if you have a perpetual garden no time is wasted. .Big plants also come into play with legal plant limits. The more roots the more fruits. You will get more off a 10 gal with bigger buds vs 4 3gals in the same space.

If you are limited for plants an SoG style rig is not the answer no. Then I would just plan VERY well, veg each to six weeks and over, then screen them up. But as far as yield over time goes... traditional straight from clone is the way, this is not a debate it has been proven over and over here on RIU in practical runs mate. To scream nOOOOO is a bit retarded hy. No offence. More roots equal more shoots sure, but the issue here is dry weight. I have seehow you run, it is very far removed from SoG. Perpetual, yes. SoG, no. It is a particular style, it does not mean any old way of generating a perpetual crop. Until you run an actual SoG, please reserve comments on the method.

 

[hyroot]

If you are limited for plants an SoG style rig is not the answer no. Then I would just plan VERY well, veg each to six weeks and over, then screen them up. But as far as yield over time goes... traditional straight from clone is the way, this is not a debate it has been proven over and over here on RIU in practical runs mate. To scream nOOOOO is a bit retarded hy. No offence. More roots equal more shoots sure, but the issue here is dry weight. I have seehow you run, it is very far removed from SoG. Perpetual, yes. SoG, no. It is a particular style, it does not mean any old way of generating a perpetual crop. Until you run an actual SoG, please reserve comments on the method.

I was replying to ignorant post of large plants are waste of time and space. That you obviously didn't read. More shoots equals more buds. Thats a given..

I've done sog for 3 batches 3 years ago. Yield was horrible in comparison. I got 6 zips of 12 plants. I probably didn't have the right strains. That was with 2 weeks veg time. I have never seen anyone pull more than 10 grams per plant with zero veg time. Every sog thread on here that claims huge yields is incomplete and never shows the end result.