Something smells fishy at Tilray

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sativeritas

Member
CannaReview said:
I understand but no one forced them to rush their production and create poo. In reality these guys would have spent at least a year growing/testing before they even considered entering the market. If they hired professionals and gave it time (I wouldn't blame them for not being the first to market) to set up proper manufacturing procedures and come up with a quality product it wouldn't matter if they offered it last, the product would speak for itself and people might have look past the high black market pricing they set.
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No LP has yet shipped in house product that "speaks" for itself, and they may never. Any of the LP's that shipped quality product - got it from the MMAR. The standards they have to meet require either irradiation, or early harvest. No amount of technique or skill will change the fact a plant will almost always test above and beyond the acceptable levels for bacteria and mold if its grown to maturity. Cannabis inforesence is not a loose leafy product - it is by nature - a compound leaf that holds moisture and generates heat in the dark spaces between nodes.

HC has not approved a realistic QC monograph specific to Cannabis - and until they do the LP's will either have to break the rules, or ship sub standard product.
 
bcbreeder

bcbreeder

Well-Known Member
No one seems to recall that a tilray employee came on here early on and claimed that the mar acquired weed was grown in house. Also consider that genetics acquired probably came inoculated with pm and for sure had mites so what a mess and they deserve to suffer for cashing in quick instead of staring from scratch. As to how clean the employee growers are, think again who do Yu think hooked up all those shady deals, Connected growers...
 
VIANARCHRIS

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
At the end of the day, why is 'less than sterile' weed suddenly poison? People have been growing weed outdoors for a very long time without any issues. Nobody died.Ever. It's almost like nature intended it that way. I know...crazy! No different with indoor growing...use some precautions to prevent mold and pests...and you\re good to go. No one except those with severely compromised immune systems needs pharmaceutical grade sterile pot. This idiotic HC requirement should have been challenged by LP's from day one.
 
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sativeritas

Member
Exactly. Well said.

The LP's are not inherently evil or bad growers, HC has once again built a program that is designed to fail. The contempt Health Canada has for patients is disgusting. I lurk RIU a lot and its a crying shame to see so many passionate people focus their hate at the wrong place.
 
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sativeritas

Member
Also the LP's are challenging HC behind closed doors on lots of issues - but they are in a captured regulatory market and have to play within the system or risk losing their license all together. Groups like the CMCIA have been formed to exactly what you're describing - which is challenge HC,
 
VIANARCHRIS

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
I am not familiar with the CMCIA nor have I heard about any challenges from LP's. I'm not saying it isn't going on, just that they are not sharing anything and they have obviously not been successful. I would like to see more push back from the LP's, even at the risk of losing their license. Us mmar patients had to fight to keep our right to grow while opening ourselves up to increased scrutiny and harassment from authorities. People have been risking their freedom and livelihood for decades to get us to this point yet LP's seem willing to abandon the effort to bring change and go along with whatever HC tells them. If there are challenges going on and there is an organized effort to fix the mmpr, why is no one talking about it? I practically begged any LP to engage me in a respectful discussion on this forum and got no takers. The offer still stands.
 
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sativeritas

Member
You have to remember that it's a captured regulatory market. In order for an LP to have any sway with Health Canada they first have to be part of the program. And if they over step any boundaries in openly criticizing HC without any sense of due process they may lose their license.

I am well aware of the decades of work and risk taken by the stakeholders in this industry to get us where we are now. The difference between the MMAR growers and MMPR growers are very glaring. Under the MMAR a holder of a DPL/PPL could shit talk HC all they wanted and still maintain their right to grow, also, meaningful change could happen when a MMAR grower or patient went beyond the scope of the regulations, was charged with a criminal offense, and made a charter challenge (thus broadening the scope of the MMAR after successive court cases).

The LP's are not given the same chance at changing the regulations through acts of civil disobedience. If a licensed producer was to buck the regulations in a conscious act of disobedience they would not be brought up on criminal charges. It would be a breach of regulations and contract and they would lose their license. The recourse left for an LP(because of the lack of criminal charges) would be to pro actively sue HC. The record for successful litigation against HC is abysmal.

The LP's are not in the same position MMAR growers were, HC will listen to them only when it suits them. If an LP or group of LP's was to go public with damning criticism of HC and the regulations, Health Canada would deny any wrong doing, and discontinue open dialogue. They would then not renew the offending LP's licenses on yearly review and that would be that.

Also - this is not the forum to expect the LP's to suddenly break rank and spill their pretty pink diaries for all to read. Many here seem to be willfully ignorant of the reality these companies face.
 
VIANARCHRIS

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
sativeritas said:
You have to remember that it's a captured regulatory market. In order for an LP to have any sway with Health Canada they first have to be part of the program. And if they over step any boundaries in openly criticizing HC without any sense of due process they may lose their license.

I am well aware of the decades of work and risk taken by the stakeholders in this industry to get us where we are now. The difference between the MMAR growers and MMPR growers are very glaring. Under the MMAR a holder of a DPL/PPL could shit talk HC all they wanted and still maintain their right to grow, also, meaningful change could happen when a MMAR grower or patient went beyond the scope of the regulations, was charged with a criminal offense, and made a charter challenge (thus broadening the scope of the MMAR after successive court cases).

The LP's are not given the same chance at changing the regulations through acts of civil disobedience. If a licensed producer was to buck the regulations in a conscious act of disobedience they would not be brought up on criminal charges. It would be a breach of regulations and contract and they would lose their license. The recourse left for an LP(because of the lack of criminal charges) would be to pro actively sue HC. The record for successful litigation against HC is abysmal.

The LP's are not in the same position MMAR growers were, HC will listen to them only when it suits them. If an LP or group of LP's was to go public with damning criticism of HC and the regulations, Health Canada would deny any wrong doing, and discontinue open dialogue. They would then not renew the offending LP's licenses on yearly review and that would be that.

Also - this is not the forum to expect the LP's to suddenly break rank and spill their pretty pink diaries for all to read. Many here seem to be willfully ignorant of the reality these companies face.
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I thank you for your reply and explanation, but in the end it sounds like lawyer speak for cowardliness. I admit I am ignorant of a lot of the realities of the LP's, but I am also aware that many industries successfully lobby the government for changes to the way they do business. The oil and mining industries are prime examples. The fact is every LP is tip toeing around HC trying not to ruffle feathers and bending over at the whim of HC all to chase a buck. Their willingness to go along with and invest in the seriously flawed mmpr will only help to ensure it's failure. Also- I figured a thread titled "MMPR Licensed Producer Thread" might be a good place to start. My bad.
 
VIANARCHRIS

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
I was looking for a discussion....not trade secrets. You don't think there may just be a problem in this country if people are scared to speak for fear of repercussions from our dictator? You admit HC has set up a system that is designed to fail and yet you support the LP's caving to HC's every whim. Let's see if any of them care to have a discussion closer to the judge tossing out the mmpr? Much like the influx of LP's spewing their crap about caring for patients prior to the March court date, I don't expect a shortage of them lobbying the media in an effort to maintain their monopoly. It's called greed.
 
GrowRock

GrowRock

Well-Known Member
The LP's should go and cry some where else. We the patients know exactly what stands in front of them because a lot of us looked into becoming LP's but stopped when we seen how flawed the mmpr system was example built on greed causing patients on a limited income to pay 7 to 800% more for there medicine. So we decided to out the government in there disregarded for human suffering. Maybe all the LP should have done alittle research into there investment and we wouldn't even be having this debate. The LP greed will be there down fall. The courts and the Canadian people will see the LP's for what they are money hungry assholes who have no compassion for patients or customers as LP's call us.

Peace
 
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symptum

Well-Known Member
Well I just placed what might be my last order from Tilray. If the rumors are true and they are being forced to irradiate or are pushing in house grown schwag that's it for me. I've asked them and they said they won't irradiate but who knows for sure. I would rather have them explain to us why the new strains aren't released yet then have to speculate based on past experiences with other LP's. But I guess that the people keeping them in business aren't important enough to deserve that much respect.
 
Maritime Marauder

Maritime Marauder

Active Member
symptum said:
Well I just placed what might be my last order from Tilray. If the rumors are true and they are being forced to irradiate or are pushing in house grown schwag that's it for me. I've asked them and they said they won't irradiate but who knows for sure. I would rather have them explain to us why the new strains aren't released yet then have to speculate based on past experiences with other LP's. But I guess that the people keeping them in business aren't important enough to deserve that much respect.
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I think you're jumping the gun a bit. Relax, burn one down, and see what actually happens before worrying about switching. It's not like you are going to find an LP right now that isn't gonna throw you a curve ball, read all the threads on here. Hope it all works out for ya :)
 
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symptum

Well-Known Member
Yeah no kidding. If you had been through a number of LP'S like a few of us on here, I would think you would be more adept at seeing the signs that something is not right. This is exactly how it started for me at both PN and Mettrum. Delays, vague answers, secrecy then next thing you know, nothing but either pre milled schwag or irradiated poison. And both companies swore at the beginning that those are both practices they would have no part in. Sorry, but I don't need to relax. You need to open your eyes and quit being so optimistic about this. I was at first, and now thousands of dollars out of my own pocket later it seems like Tilray is about to go down the same road most, if not all LP's have. It's very upsetting to be treated with such disdain repeatedly. And like I've said before in other posts, I feel being the guinea pig for 3 LP's has been enough. If this one shits the bed, I'm done trying to make this BS program work for me. I wonder if I can sue for damages and recoup my money once this is all done?
 
S

symptum

Well-Known Member
I was just thinking, how fucked would HC be if there was a class action lawsuit by mmpr patients over being forced to buy medicine of questionable quality for many times more expensive than they could have produced it themselves, with limited access if any from some LP'S (PN)? Anyone well versed in law around here?
 
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