The Koch Attack on Solar Energy

[WORDZofWORDZCRAFT]

What does apply to you wordz?
Also, to what do you apply yourself?
Other than spamming an interesting thread to death like the spoiled little meth-boy you are?
brace yourself everyone...I feel a tantrum coming.

I didn't realize people complaining about the things they consume was what interests you. Is there really any better way to prove you guys are overprivileged.

 

[killemsoftly]

I didn't realize people complaining about the things they consume was what interests you.

Oh...I see.
The tantrum's over.
Reading comprehension would help. He made a good point. You threw a fit.
You don't even grasp the point he made. Pathetic wordz

 

[WORDZofWORDZCRAFT]

Oh...I see.
The tantrum's over.
Reading comprehension would help. He made a good point. You threw a fit.
You don't even grasp the point he made. Pathetic wordz

he didn't make a point at all he copy and pasted some bullshit

 

[ChesusRice]

The kochs are only fighting for what is right for America

That is why they want to build the XL pipeline to the Gulf of mexico
So all that Canadian crude can be shipped overseas

 

[WORDZofWORDZCRAFT]

The kochs are only fighting for what is right for America

That is why they want to build the XL pipeline to the Gulf of mexico
So all that Canadian crude can be shipped overseas

that's just simple economics you sell products where you can get the best price.. or to where the refineries are.

 

[Padawanbater2]

I didn't realize people complaining about the things they consume was what interests you.

Nobody is complaining about what they consume, you've simply misunderstood the point of this (as well as many other I suspect) thread(s)..

Let me clarify..

So there are these really rich guys who spend a small fraction of their enormous fortune purchasing politicians effectively influencing the way they vote in favor of their own corporate interests which go against American citizens interests.

People like you fall into two categories; Too smart to care about American citizens or too dumb too. I'd put you in the latter, as you seem to genuinely believe in Reaganomics. Although I still personally believe you to be a troll (and a poor one at that..).


For anyone intelligent enough to recognize what's actually going on, it's as obvious as BnB's childhood sexual abuse..

 

[ChesusRice]

that's just simple economics you sell products where you can get the best price.. or to where the refineries are.

That's not how the Kochs are promoting it

 

[WORDZofWORDZCRAFT]

Nobody is complaining about what they consume, you've simply misunderstood the point of this (as well as many other I suspect) thread(s)..

Let me clarify..

So there are these really rich guys who spend a small fraction of their enormous fortune purchasing politicians effectively influencing the way they vote in favor of their own corporate interests which go against American citizens interests.

there are also people who send a large amount of their meager earnings to the people and corporations they despise but do so because they are afraid of self efficiency

 

[Padawanbater2]

there are also people who send a large amount of their meager earnings to the people and corporations they despise but do so because they are afraid of self efficiency

Yes, I bet those poor people are terrified of providing for themselves, not having to rely on megacorporations for their energy needs, not having to rely on grocery stores for their food needs.. Utterly tormented by the thought of working and providing for themselves! My God! Truly unbearable!

 

[killemsoftly]

The verdict is in Wordz!

 

[Red1966]

At long last, the Koch brothers and their conservative allies in state government have found a new tax they can support. Naturally it’s a tax on something the country needs: solar energy panels.

For the last few months, the Kochs and other big polluters have been spending heavily to fight incentives for renewable energy, which have been adopted by most states. They particularly dislike state laws that allow homeowners with solar panels to sell power they don’t need back to electric utilities. So they’ve been pushing legislatures to impose a surtax on this increasingly popular practice, hoping to make installing solar panels on houses less attractive.

Oklahoma lawmakers recently approved such a surcharge at the behest of the American Legislative Exchange Council, the conservative group that often dictates bills to Republican statehouses and receives financing from the utility industry and fossil-fuel producers, including the Kochs. As The Los Angeles Times reported recently, the Kochs and ALEC have made similar efforts in other states, though they were beaten back by solar advocates in Kansas and the surtax was reduced to $5 a month in Arizona.

But the Big Carbon advocates aren’t giving up. The same group is trying to repeal or freeze Ohio’s requirement that 12.5 percent of the state’s electric power come from renewable sources like solar and wind by 2025. Twenty-nine states have established similar standards that call for 10 percent or more in renewable power. These states can now anticipate well-financed campaigns to eliminate these targets or scale them back.

The coal producers’ motivation is clear: They see solar and wind energy as a long-term threat to their businesses. That might seem distant at the moment, when nearly 40 percent of the nation’s electricity is still generated by coal, and when less than 1 percent of power customers have solar arrays. (It is slightly higher in California and Hawaii.) But given new regulations on power-plant emissions of mercury and other pollutants, and the urgent need to reduce global warming emissions, the future clearly lies with renewable energy. In 2013, 29 percent of newly installed generation capacity came from solar, compared with 10 percent in 2012.

Renewables are good for economic as well as environmental reasons, as most states know. (More than 143,000 now work in the solar industry.) Currently, 43 states require utilities to buy excess power generated by consumers with solar arrays. This practice, known as net metering, essentially runs electric meters backward when power flows from rooftop solar panels into the grid, giving consumers a credit for the power they generate but don’t use.

The utilities hate this requirement, for obvious reasons. A report by the Edison Electric Institute, the lobbying arm of the power industry, says this kind of law will put “a squeeze on profitability,” and warns that if state incentives are not rolled back, “it may be too late to repair the utility business model.”

Since that’s an unsympathetic argument, the utilities have devised another: Solar expansion, they claim, will actually hurt consumers. The Arizona Public Service Company, the state’s largest utility, funneled large sums through a Koch operative to a nonprofit group that ran an ad claiming net metering would hurt older people on fixed incomes by raising electric rates. The ad tried to link the requirement to President Obama. Another Koch ad likens the renewable-energy requirement to health care reform, the ultimate insult in that world. “Like Obamacare, it’s another government mandate we can’t afford,” the narrator says.

That line might appeal to Tea Partiers, but it’s deliberately misleading. This campaign is really about the profits of Koch Carbon and the utilities, which to its organizers is much more important than clean air and the consequences of climate change.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/04/27/opinion/sunday/the-koch-attack-on-solar-energy.html?_r=1&referrer=


legislator: "So you want me to create new taxes for renewable energy sources and continue subsidies for oil & gas such that renewable energy will be more expensive no matter what?"
kochs: "Yes. That's basically it."
legislator: "But all my constituents keep saying they want to start addressing problems with pollution."
kochs: "But I'm the one who pays to keep you in office. If your constituents want things, they can get rich like us and buy their own politicians and fund their own legislative exchange council."

-MyRapNameIsAlex (Reddit)


Whoever it was last week claiming the Koch's actually provide funds for alternative energy sources, suck on that.

Gee, you were doing so well until you had to insert the fake "quotes" at the end. Just can't stop yourself from lying? So you're happy to pay for subsidizing rich white people to put solar panels on their roofs and get their electric for free, while the rest of us have to pay for ours?

 

[Red1966]

I've personally seen members of RIU claim that "until renewable is cheaper than fossil, fossil will reign supreme", dismissing any conflicts of interest that might keep renewable more expensive than fossil. Here is an exact example of that. Wealthy energy suppliers spending money manipulating the free market in their favor.

If the conservatives that regularly post in this section had any honesty, they would admit this is a clear cut example of crony capitalism, they would be opposed to it, just like I am.

Yeah, there are no subsidies at all for renewables, except those given to wealthy white homeowners, failed solar power companies ($600 million for just one of them) or ignoring environmental laws for killing thousands of birds every day while crucifying oil companies for having one dead bird near their property regardless of the cause of death. If you kill an eagle, expect time in a federal pen. Windmill companies are given a free pass and have killed over a thousand just last year. You can't complain about "crony capitalism" on one side while supporting it on the other.

 

[Red1966]

Coal's awesome. Just go to West Virginia. They take the tops off mountains. That's progress!
Good thread pb2. Thought provoking.

They do almost no coal mining in WV anymore.

 

[Red1966]

No coal here wordz. just nat gas gens, nuclear, solar,etc. we went off coal.
Don't be mad wordz. It'll ruin your complexion.
peace

Natural gas is bad, unless you use it? Nuclear is bad, unless you use it? You haven't used 1 watt of solar, but you do get to help pay for the rich white folk on the other side of town to put solar panels on their roof. Yay! you win! not

 

[killemsoftly]

Such a sad, bitter man.
Hugz Red.

 

[Red1966]

Existing energy companies are paying (bribing) politicians to ensure taxes are applied to renewable sources of energy, effectively eliminating any free market aspect of the game at all.

Conservatives rant and rave about the free market until the cows come home, where are they now?

Your taxes are subsidizing renewables.

 

[Red1966]

do you have any solar panels or do you just you spend your money on coal and bitch about it?

He spends his money on solar panels, they're just on some rich white guy's roof, not his.

 

[fridayfishfry]

Tax? They should subsidize it. In all reality the states don't have that kind of government at the time X.x You have to consider a lot of these things are made overseas and that's where the taxes should be placed and consider the amount of energy it takes to make them compared to what you get out. As far as cost goes you just about break even over the 10 20 years.

 

[Red1966]

So you're perfectly OK with wealthy individuals spending money to influence politics in favor of their interests and against the American citizens interests?

Are you complaining about coal, oil, gas, wind, or solar? They ALL do it.

 

[Red1966]

You don't know what I do with my money. You assume you know what I do with my money based on the question I answered saying it doesn't matter what I personally do with my money, the same point stands valid. Where should the average American spend his money if he wishes to avoid such monopolies?

Do you know what 'monopoly' means?

You've admitted you support the oligarchy. You're nothing but a shill against American democracy. Your opinion is worthless at this point, not that it ever meant anything anyway..

Gee, you were doing so well until you had to add that lie at the end.Ever wonder what it would be like to not lie?