resin production more at night?

thecannacove

Well-Known Member
I said they wont grow much..not they wont ever grow lol..they will grow, but not for shit..they might grow decent for a week or 2 with seed and wk 1 veg...but i guarantee if you left them on 24/0 for you entire veg, and did 18/6 for a different veg..100% positive the 18/6 would have WAY better growth
You're on crack - I ran my babies on 24/0 through whole veg period. Plants went into 12/12 @ 30"-36" and bushy as hell

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K J

Active Member
18 hours max not 48, but I ain't that cruel, my flowers and I have done the journey, come harvest time put them down in a style that is appreciative of your time and efforts ...enough of this greed bullshit
Hahaha, it's just a plant not an animal getting slaughtered.
 

KumeStorm

Active Member
You're on crack - I ran my babies on 24/0 through whole veg period. Plants went into 12/12 @ 30"-36" and bushy as hell

and like i said, if you were on 18/6 it would have been better...18/6 is the best veg light period...try reading some time..and not online forums..try learning and reading from experts who have been growing 25+ years....cause thats who ive got my information from
 
Your post was sweet and made sense. I am using EasyRyder autos and currently have 3, I've heard so many people with different opinions saying 24/0 is good for autos, 18/6, 20/4. I went from 18/6 because it seemed easier to run the lights 24 hours a day, I'm thinking, even though they're automatics, should I cut the light down to 12/12 when thy mature. so theoretically, 24/0 produces no veg growth and just makes the plants store their energy. :S
 

thecannacove

Well-Known Member
and like i said, if you were on 18/6 it would have been better...18/6 is the best veg light period...try reading some time..and not online forums..try learning and reading from experts who have been growing 25+ years....cause thats who ive got my information from
This is funny to me. Although I am on just my first grow I did considerable research for several months before i started, and have never stopped. I read grow books, plant biology books, forum threads, and many peer reviewed articles from prominent medical or agro journals.
In today's cannabis cultivation world, forums are just as important as a book or article. While generalized information that can be found in a book is important, advice from experienced ACTIVE growers, growing ACTIVE strains (see: not an extinct strain). Strains can have very different optimal needs from one to the next, and unless a book is focusing on a strain specifically, it may not be as relevant.

Additionally on the note of 24/0, it is absolutely an effective photoperiod during veg as the plant is simply getting more energy through increased photosynthesis. The lights off period during veg does nothing more than cause the plant to stop storing energy and use up was has been stored. No lights out means a constant feed of energy. The dark period is of diminished importance in veg and really is nothing more than a mechanism relating hormones to trigger flowering.

Lastly, you tell me to learn and listen to experts growing for 25+ years... which I do, so why listen to your advice on the subject? It's apparent that you have no study to show 18/6 produces larger/healthier plants than 24/0. If you provide the plant what it needs, a zero dark period allows the plant the most opportunity for photosynthesis and respiration. If you've found any legitimate scientific evidence to suggest 18/6 is more effective than please post it. Otherwise you're no different than the next best opinion.

No disrespect is intended, but to say do research and listen to veteran growers (which I do every single day), and then expect me to listen to the advice of someone with 40 whopping posts on here (you), and assume credibility... its laughable.

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woody333333

Well-Known Member
This is funny to me. Although I am on just my first grow I did considerable research for several months before i started, and have never stopped. I read grow books, plant biology books, forum threads, and many peer reviewed articles from prominent medical or agro journals.
In today's cannabis cultivation world, forums are just as important as a book or article. While generalized information that can be found in a book is important, advice from experienced ACTIVE growers, growing ACTIVE strains (see: not an extinct strain). Strains can have very different optimal needs from one to the next, and unless a book is focusing on a strain specifically, it may not be as relevant.

Additionally on the note of 24/0, it is absolutely an effective photoperiod during veg as the plant is simply getting more energy through increased photosynthesis. The lights off period during veg does nothing more than cause the plant to stop storing energy and use up was has been stored. No lights out means a constant feed of energy. The dark period is of diminished importance in veg and really is nothing more than a mechanism relating hormones to trigger flowering.

Lastly, you tell me to learn and listen to experts growing for 25+ years... which I do, so why listen to your advice on the subject? It's apparent that you have no study to show 18/6 produces larger/healthier plants than 24/0. If you provide the plant what it needs, a zero dark period allows the plant the most opportunity for photosynthesis and respiration. If you've found any legitimate scientific evidence to suggest 18/6 is more effective than please post it. Otherwise you're no different than the next best opinion.

No disrespect is intended, but to say do research and listen to veteran growers (which I do every single day), and then expect me to listen to the advice of someone with 40 whopping posts on here (you), and assume credibility... its laughable.

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clownfreak9000

Well-Known Member
Yeah but 36 is the max id go
also low humidity along with 5 minutes a day of uv light (resin is produced in defense of uv ligght.) Won't change potency but it will look like it more trichomes/bigger and a bit more weight from them.
 

thecannacove

Well-Known Member
40 posts or 40000 makes no difference if youre right.......
I don't disagree. But on a public forum, credibility is earned. An unwritten vetting process so to speak. Offering only an opinion with nothing more will not sway my own or derail sound advice and often scientifically supported theories (very different from an opinion).

I'm not saying anyone is wrong, I'm asking for legitimate reasoning to support an opinion. If I didn't, wouldn't that make me a little naive? Just following a prescribed paradigm...?

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woody333333

Well-Known Member
I don't disagree. But on a public forum, credibility is earned. An unwritten vetting process so to speak. Offering only an opinion with nothing more will not sway my own or derail sound advice and often scientifically supported theories (very different from an opinion).

I'm not saying anyone is wrong, I'm asking for legitimate reasoning to support an opinion. If I didn't, wouldn't that make me a little naive? Just following a prescribed paradigm...?

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whatever......... but 24/0 is kinda dumb....keep reading kiddo.........
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Yeah but 36 is the max id go
also low humidity along with 5 minutes a day of uv light (resin is produced in defense of uv ligght.) Won't change potency but it will look like it more trichomes/bigger and a bit more weight from them.

This may be a LONG post, but I find it as one of the best and most complete of it's type. The OP (BobbyD) also lists the source of all his resurch.
If you have questions about the use of UVB increasing THC levels. YOU SHOULD take the time to read this. Maybe look up some of the papers quoted also!
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/6-breeders-support-information/3508-evolutionary-effects-ultraviolet-b-radiation-psychoactive-potency-cannabinoid-content-cannabis-sativa-l.html
I've fooled with this stuff and found that reptile lights only penetrate about 18" of the canopy. One good source for increased UVB would be 400w Mercury Vapor bulbs. Keep in mind that they'll work best without your glass sheet in your hood.
Results I found are that it does have an increase to an extent, but the fact that the lighting was very harsh on the plant causing early finish and caused quick die off. Light further away from the canopy? Did not try as I found this method to be too much of a pain in the ass to continue much with the increase in temps, I believe to be a contributing factor in the early die off of leaves surrounding the bud, in conjunction with the high UVB.
Happy reading!
 

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
I run 20/4 in veg. The theory being that it saves some energy and allows the plant to switch to flowering more quickly. 18/6 seems like it causes some varieties to preflower more than I prefer.

I agree with at least a 24 hour dark period before the chop. HPS is hard on the terpenes and they regenerate during the night. You may notice that the ladies are stinkier in the morning.

If you have a dark area for trimming and drying you can store them there so you can get your next batch under the HPS right away. Sometimes my ladies will sit in the dark room for 5 days waiting to get trimmed. It does not faze them just don't soak them and don't let them wilt.
 

thecannacove

Well-Known Member
This may be a LONG post, but I find it as one of the best and most complete of it's type. The OP (BobbyD) also lists the source of all his resurch.
If you have questions about the use of UVB increasing THC levels. YOU SHOULD take the time to read this. Maybe look up some of the papers quoted also!
http://www.mrnice.nl/forum/6-breeders-support-information/3508-evolutionary-effects-ultraviolet-b-radiation-psychoactive-potency-cannabinoid-content-cannabis-sativa-l.html
I've fooled with this stuff and found that reptile lights only penetrate about 18" of the canopy. One good source for increased UVB would be 400w Mercury Vapor bulbs. Keep in mind that they'll work best without your glass sheet in your hood.
Results I found are that it does have an increase to an extent, but the fact that the lighting was very harsh on the plant causing early finish and caused quick die off. Light further away from the canopy? Did not try as I found this method to be too much of a pain in the ass to continue much with the increase in temps, I believe to be a contributing factor in the early die off of leaves surrounding the bud, in conjunction with the high UVB.
Happy reading!

These are the posts that I enjoy reading the most. Dr. Who presents a theory with actual research, and THEN provides personal experience, and finally opinion.

Please don't mistake this as me saying if you don't do this than you're posts aren't accurate. I'm simply pointing out that he brings forth a plausible case. He doesn't simply state an opinion.

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Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Thanks!
Here's a tad more info.

If your running SOG/SCROG and feel this might be fun to try! Don't get the cheap lizard bulbs....you want the T5 HO's 10.0 uvb for reptiles. These run the proper spectrum in the 275nm - 325nm range that's the goal for your trials. I ran these in 4 of the 8 sites (alternating) for bulbs in an 8 spot fixture over a Blue Cheese SOG (last 2 weeks of flower) in a side by side test with HID 600w in side by side 4x4 tents.

Results. Tested by iron labs.
UVB supplemented = 25.31 total THC content
HID straight HPS 600w = 22.68 total THC content

This was replicated 3 times with different strains. The results with the UVB ahead in each by differing amounts.
I still found it as kinda a pain and dropped the project.
We did not go into adding T5 side runners on the HIDs to test that one out.

The Mercury Vapor light worked out almost exactly the same in results. But I don't care for crispy ladies.
I can reach my plants potential in other ways that don't add costs and time......I DID FIND THAT NON UVB SUPPLEMENTED TASTED BETTER!
 

thecannacove

Well-Known Member
Figure just for fuk sake I would round up some of the information that is readily available on the topic of 24/0 by well reputed growers of Cannabis or accomplished botanists for decades:

"It's been established for many many many years now that cannabis is a C3 plant. It does not need a dark period. C3 plants gather CO2 only during the light period when they are photosynthesizing. As long as the light is on, C3 plants gather and use CO2 for photosynthesis. Some growers practice a version of anthropomorphism with their plants. They believe that since people need rest, plants do as well. Concerning cannabis, this is not true.

Every grower can make a personal choice about light cycle. They can save on their electric bill or prolong ballast/bulb life. 18/6 can be less of a "shock" when changing over to 12/12 for flowering than 24/0 or heat issues can be addressed by fewer hours of light, but basic botany has proven long ago that cannabis needs no dark period."


-Ed Rosenthal

"So far we have seen how light energy has been converted to chemical energy and stored in the high-energy compounds, ATP and NADPH. But we have not made any food for the plant. That happens in the next process, the Calvin cycle (named for its discoverer). The Calvin cycle does not depend upon light and can occur in either light or dark conditions, unlike photophosphorylation". <<<< PERSONAL NOTE: Perhaps this is where the confusion is for so many - notice that while the calvin cycle is independent of light, it can occur during light hours (it simply doesn't NEED light to do this). This actually speaks to the testament of the 24/0 during veg since you can maintain constant light, you receive 25% more lights on period [(24hr - 18hr)/24 possible hrs] = 25% difference. Meaning 25% more photosynthesis takes place resulting in more growth in shorter amount of time.
"Here carbon dioxide from the air is used, "fixed", to make organic molecules for the plant, hence the name "carbon fixation". Remember that carbon dioxide is very low in energy and glucose is very high in stored energy. Where do you suppose the energy to raise carbon dioxide up comes from? You guessed it! The energy stored in ATP and NADPH in the light dependent reactions of photophosphorylation will now be used to power the Calvin cycle." <<<< PERSONAL NOTE: Meaning that raise of carbon dioxide is limited during the Calvin cycle to the amount of energy the plant is able to produce during photophosphorylation, which only takes place when light is present. By allowing 24 hours of light over 18 hours of light you are providing more energy for your plant to use during the Calvin cycle which means more CO2 uptake and a more efficient use of the environment the plant is in.
- June Steinberg - National Lewis University http://faculty.nl.edu/jste/calvin_cycle.htm

My final thoughts on the matter... The science supports the theory that 24 hours of light provides more energy to the plant for photosynthesis and for the Calvin cycle. This covers the plants growth above the dirt and beneath it. I will say however that without adequate CO2, the additional light will not be used as efficiently than if it had more available CO2 - but still more than 18 hours of lighting because even with normal CO2 (non-supplemented) there is still CO2 available for the plant during those additional 6 hours - some is better than none..

This then leaves the argument of "is the cost of extra electricity worth the increase in yield. Personally, my electric bill increased a TOTAL of about $25/month when I started using 1000W lighting. Dropping 6 hours from that would save me 25% of that $25 = $6.25 savings a month. In a total grow cycle of of 4 months (say 8 weeks in veg, 8 weeks in flower) I stand to save $12.50 during veg if I go 18/6. If I yield a single gram higher (let alone 25% higher), the $12.50 is negated.

So then, let's say that your concern now falls on equipment (ballast life and lamp life). Based on my reading and personal preference, I see a lot of people change their bulbs around 6 months-ish (some go over a year without replacing it - again personal preference). That said, if you are burning the lamp 25% more during veg, then one could reason that instead of changing the bulb at 6 months and your veg avgs 50% of your grow cycle (3 months), you should change it 3 weeks sooner (12 weeks * 25% = 3 weeks). Even if your paying $100 a pop (high) for hortilux eye bulbs, your losing only around 3 weeks of life which would be valued at ~$11.50 - so now we're up to a total increased cost of $24 a crop.. So now we would need to yield a whopping 2g's more to offset the cost (less if you change your bulb less frequently than every 6 months). Finally, your ballast. Since I have no idea about the life of a ballast (never had one die on me, but that's not saying much, I've only been growing around 4 months), I can't say the overall net value lost that an extra 25% of light during veg would amount to, but it's going to last far longer than a bulb will, you do the math. Just a thought: If you're worried about your ballast, perhaps get a second one and have one on for 12, cycle it off while the other 1 comes on, so you are only taxing each ballast 12 hours. Both ballasts would live their normal life span. Granted the cost of an additional ballast may not be worth it to you, but it would prolong the life of both of them resulting in a long term net savings.

In the end, as has been said many times, it all depends on what you feel is best for your individual situation. For me, I see the logic in 24/0 being better than 18/6 on both the plant growth front. I would also venture to say in my case, it actually SAVES me money in the end even if yield was not a single gram higher since my grow is in a custom built room in my garage - having the light on 24 hours means I don't have to have a 1500W heater going for 6 hours of lights off to keep my temperature from dropping under 60*F.

I don't smoke your bud, and your yield doesn't affect me. Your crop, your choice. Just providing sound research to backup a theory I subscribe to. Hope someone can use this information to make a better informed decision on what they choose to do with their light cycle during veg.
 

thecannacove

Well-Known Member
Now some info on light during flower:

"JUMP STARTING FLOWERING (by Ed Rosenthal)
Long periods of uninterrupted darkness are nature&#8217;s trigger to marijuana to begin flowering. This is measured chemically by phytochrome, which is deactivated by red light. The inactive form is referred to as Pr . In the absence of red light, with a peak at 666 nm and effects from about 500-700 nm, Pr drifts into its active form Pfr, over a period of about two hours. This begins at dusk or when the lights are turned off.

This transition period, during which Pfr has limited effectiveness, can be dramatically shortened. Pr is sensitive to far-red light with a peak at 730 nm and is affected in a range of about 700-750 nm. In its presence it changes almost immediately to the active form, Pfr. This effect is useful for shortening the two-hour time it takes plants to switch from the inactive to active form. Indoors, after the grow lamps are turned off, expose the plants to far-red(730 nm light) which turns the Pr to Pfr much faster and induces flowering within a shorter dark period. You can provide far-red lighting using LEDs or some fluorescents. Far-red light can also be used to restore the active form of the hormone if the dark is interrupted by light. This may ameliorate the consequences of darkness interruption.

Outdoors, you have no control over dawn and dusk, but you can force flowering out of season by using far-red lighting to increase the time the plants are under Pfr&#8217;s flower-inducing influence by two hours. Plants receiving 15 hours of light and 9 hours of darkness react as if they were under a lighting regime of 11 hours of darkness because of the additional two hours of active hormone. Most plants initiate flowering under 11 hours of darkness, which is shortened to 9 after exposure to 730 nm far-red light. The plants should be exposed to far-red light each evening at the end of dusk. They need only a few seconds of the light each night."

-Although this doesn't speak to the resin development with more or less darkness period, it does provide a means of shaving 2 hours off your darkness period. Thought this was interesting, maybe ya'll will too.
 

crispypb840

Active Member
I still prefer 18/6. 24 seems like a waist. Other topic on "48 dark b4 harvest increases resin production". This doesn't make any sense trichs take at least a week to develop and longer to ripen. :dunce:
 

thecannacove

Well-Known Member
I still prefer 18/6. 24 seems like a waist. Other topic on "48 dark b4 harvest increases resin production". This doesn't make any sense trichs take at least a week to develop and longer to ripen. :dunce:
I think the real question is more of "does 48 dark help with ripening of trichs at the very end (after development has already occurred)."

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