You ever notice...

cannabineer said:

In all honesty, Pad ... I think it's a lost cause. Imo (and the opinion of another whose judgment I've grown to trust implicitly) the big and now intractable problem is the culture of "self-esteem" that has completely divorced acclaim from performance. Today's up&coming generation feels *entitled* to their mistakes, peccadillos and simple lapses of decency. it's their inalienable right ... even by aliens, ~sour smirk~.
Bottom line ... the capacity to fruitfully point out a mistake *depends* on the recipient's capacity to feel even a speck of shame and to want to do it better. That is the thing that we've lost with the "no child left behind" mentality and its Pied Piper entourage of un(??)intended consequences. one tired old bear's view. cn

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this guys got it

i always like your post Even If i Dont Agree with em every time

shitty part about the newer entitled generations . . . . . .pretty soon they will be the majority and only their kids will be able to make a change after growing up in a society dominated by people who choose to not accept responsibility for there actions

Chief Walkin Eagle said:

You talk all this bullshit about progress of humanity and that we need to submit to your way of thinking in order for us to move further as a race... hmmm... Kinda sounds like joho's trying to shove their beliefs in your face. No matter how hard you try to justify your beliefs your still a giant hypocrite for trying to get others to believe in them. You trying to convert a believer into a non believer is no different than a joho knocking on doors asking people to submit to Jesus. If your so convinced that your point of view is the most accurate one then why cant you be content with that? Why do you gotta go around and preach to people about these "truths" you know? All your doing is created more tension and conflict thats not needed, further separating us as a people. Separation slows the progress of humanity and thats all your doing is separating people. Im not religious and the only religions Im against are the ones to do with Jesus but Im not going to go out of my way to reason with these people, because all that does is create separation. Atheism is like a penis, its fine to have it and its fine to be proud of it, just dont whip it out and wave it around in public =p... Its fucking retarded that your a SPIRITUALITY mod when your so against anything spiritual.

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Greetings chef, I think that if there is any place in the world where it is appropriate to brandish one's atheistic man sword this forum is it.

Samwell Seed Well said:

this guys got it

i always like your post Even If i Dont Agree with em every time

shitty part about the newer entitled generations . . . . . .pretty soon they will be the majority and only their kids will be able to make a change after growing up in a society dominated by people who choose to not accept responsibility for there actions

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Dude! LOVE your avatar! Read my sig...

toats mcgoats!

cannabineer said:

...That is the thing that we've lost with the "no child left behind" mentality and its Pied Piper entourage of un(??)intended consequences. one tired old bear's view. cn

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Seth Myers of SNL had a quip about the American Education system recently:

"This week, children at more than 1,700 schools in North America sang the song 'I Want to Play,' at the same time. While simultaneously in China, over a billion kids were doing math..."

Padawanbater2 said:

That religion could be responsible for increasing literacy rates in western civilization is a red herring.....

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of course it is, as is each instance where you insist on equating religious faith with ignorance. religion, like politics and so much of our social interaction, attempts to give each man what he desires. it gives the ignorant man an excuse for his ignorance, the vengeful man a target for his vengeance, the wise man a basis from which to expand his wisdom and the tolerant man an even better reason for his tolerance. that the ignorant outnumber the wise and the vengeful outnumber the tolerant is all too evident.

it's easy to pick and choose the negative aspects of all man's experiences. as you have already said, our science has led to the creation of some of the most horrendous inhumanities. it has also given us the possibility of creating a paradise for all men. so too is there positive and negative in religion. it can and has been used to subjugate entire peoples, to slaughter millions and to enrich the few at the expense of the many. it has also been a source of succor for millions, provided a reason for tolerance and empathy to those who might otherwise have resorted to savagery and even protected a measure of man's knowledge during some of humanity's darkest periods.

so tell us all again how it is religion that so exacerbates our ignorance, as you twist the bounds of logic to promote your own intolerance.

does this qualify you as a bigot? Or do you have the right to say this since you are an atheist?

I have seen you make mistakes of that which you speak of on RIU. Does that make you a hypocrite?


I just want fair and equal treatment and pointing out things like this will get us one step closer to the truth.

Padawanbater2 said:

... that quite a bit of people who are religious also believe in things like ancient aliens, ghosts, 2012 predictions, that vaccines cause autism, climate change is a hoax, etc. and a lot of, most I'd argue, non believers... don't?

I think there's a lot more to this correlation than what there appears to be on the surface...

Another thing that I've noticed is those same kinds of people tend to misspell words or use lowercase letters when they should be capitalized, grammatical errors, they don't proof read, they don't know the correct usage of homophones (they're, their, there).

So what do you guys think when you come across a person like this? What's the best way to get that person to realize their mistakes? Usually they get upset, if you tell them they've committed a logical fallacy or spelled a word incorrectly or whatever, I've seen people do it in the least personal way possible and the other person would still take offense. What's with the automatic defensive response most people have?

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eye exaggerate said:

Ok, so now that the forum has had a vaccination, I can reply. Belief is not so much a choice. People 'have it', people 'live by it', but people can't 'see' it. I think that might be the part that messes with people. At any rate, isn't what you propose scientism?

“So you’re saying science is the only source of truth?” “Yes.” “Well, you’ve got a problem. You see, the statement ’We should only believe what can be scientifically proven’ is a truth claim that cannot be scientifically proven because it is a philosophical statement, and so based on your own criteria, you have to reject it.”

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What I'm saying is science is the best method available to get to the closest approximation of the truth.

undertheice said:

so tell us all again how it is religion that so exacerbates our ignorance, as you twist the bounds of logic to promote your own intolerance.

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We've been over all the reasons why organized religion is bad a million times before, it's gotten to the point where, there is no point with you anymore. Believe whatever you like.

olylifter420 said:

does this qualify you as a bigot? Or do you have the right to say this since you are an atheist?

I have seen you make mistakes of that which you speak of on RIU. Does that make you a hypocrite?

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What's bigoted about identifying the correlation between highly religious people and ignorance?

Do I consistently make spelling errors or believe in 2012 predictions and ghosts? The people I was referring to in the OP do, consistently, especially the one that I had in mind when I started the thread.

Padawanbater2 said:

What I'm saying is science is the best method available to get to the closest approximation of the truth.

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...of the material world, yes - 100%. It's likely the reason we have reason But, that's just a 1/4 of the pie.

...I'd also like to point out that if ignorant people 'need' religion to get by, why do you get to have a say in that? By that logic, you could also eject the least smart kid in a science class. Then the next least smart kid, and so on.

eye exaggerate said:

...of the material world, yes - 100%. It's likely the reason we have reason But, that's just a 1/4 of the pie.

...I'd also like to point out that if ignorant people 'need' religion to get by, why do you get to have a say in that? By that logic, you could also eject the least smart kid in a science class. Then the next least smart kid, and so on.

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Hey, Eye! I keep reading these serious posts from you, then look up at your recent avatar at just crack up AFAIK, the material world is 100% of what we know as it's all we've been able to prove or observe empirically. Everything 'outside' of it is speculation. I don't think anyone 'needs' religion like they need food, air, and water, but I'm sure it makes it easier to get by for some (similar to drugs/alcohol, or any addiction). We also shouldn't eject the children in classes who do poorly, but we should give them an F 'til they get it right

tyler.durden said:

Hey, Eye! I keep reading these serious posts from you, then look up at your recent avatar at just crack up AFAIK, the material world is 100% of what we know as it's all we've been able to prove or observe empirically. Everything 'outside' of it is speculation. I don't think anyone 'needs' religion like they need food, air, and water, but I'm sure it makes it easier to get by for some (similar to drugs/alcohol, or any addiction). We also shouldn't eject the children in classes who do poorly, but we should give them an F 'til they get it right

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...fffffkn eh!

Man, I think I just found something here. I can observe matter, but matter is not all that matters. Maybe necessity is the mother of invention - and speculation 'the path' for science to fit some math around to materialize what was needed.

eye exaggerate said:

...fffffkn eh!

Man, I think I just found something here. I can observe matter, but matter is not all that matters. Maybe necessity is the mother of invention - and speculation 'the path' for science to fit some math around to materialize what was needed.

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I think I see what you're saying: speculation is often the precursor to gaining actual knowledge. Look at Einstein (or any theoretical physicist) with his speculative thought experiments before working out the math, and String Theory guys searching for TOE. I think that science uses speculation in the proper way: they use existing empirically proven concepts and math to attempt to predict what our missing information might be, and very often their speculations are dead on and we find what we expected to find. What power! I think that theology uses speculation in a backward way: it starts out with its information/beliefs/concepts
, and it then speculates on ways to show that it's true. IOW, science searches for its answers wherever the data leads, while theology began with its answers and halts its search (or denies the data) when it runs into data that goes against it preconceived answers...

Padawanbater2 said:

What I'm saying is science is the best method available to get to the closest approximation of the truth.

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Not science per se but the tools of science, rational, skeptical thought. Too many people attempt to win this game by pointing out the limitations of science. Yes, science is limited but critical thinking can be applied to any topic, even the supernatural. We use these tools in law enforcement and courtrooms and no one tries to call it science when the police attempt to provide motive, means and opportunity. Without any of those three, the truth becomes harder to determine yet we don't just give up and make up conclusions like the victim was killed by aliens. People unconsciously employ Occam's Razor to many problems they face even if they don't know what it is.

This is so annoying that anyone gives sloppy thought a pass and that's exactly what is being done when we are taught to tiptoe around religious or spiritual beliefs and told it is wrong to question or confront them.
@UTI, I like a lot of your posts in the political forums (and love Janis) but here I still vehemently disagree with your stance. I still cannot understand why in a forum like this that anyone thinks its wrong to be critical of people that can't use or misuse logic and believe that they actually have good reasons to believe short of personal experience. I also think I shouldn't have to be worried that someone finds out I'm an unbeliever but IRL I do as we are the most hated minority in existence and it is irritating that in a spiritual forum, you don't think it's appropriate that I speak out against willful ignorance.

Padawanbater2 said:

... that quite a bit of people who are religious also believe in things like ancient aliens, ghosts, 2012 predictions, that vaccines cause autism, climate change is a hoax, etc. and a lot of, most I'd argue, non believers... don't? I think there's a lot more to this correlation than what there appears to be on the surface... Another thing that I've noticed is those same kinds of people tend to misspell words or use lowercase letters when they should be capitalized, grammatical errors, they don't proof read, they don't know the correct usage of homophones (they're, their, there). So what do you guys think when you come across a person like this? What's the best way to get that person to realize their mistakes? Usually they get upset, if you tell them they've committed a logical fallacy or spelled a word incorrectly or whatever, I've seen people do it in the least personal way possible and the other person would still take offense. What's with the automatic defensive response most people have?

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Including "climate change is a hoax' indicates you have a touch of the ailment yourself. People believe what they want to believe. Religion is mostly the way people deal with their fear of death. They want to believe they can live on after earthly death. Many, maybe even most, Atheists also believe in some of the concepts you mention, so I don't think piety or lack of has any real bearing. The gullible will hold dear to their beliefs regardless of attempts to "educate" them. You can't change them. But you can distract them readily. I ordered a homophone off Ebay but it's been three weeks and they haven't even sent a tracking number yet. There account has been suspended.

Depends on what is meant by climate change. The climate is changing; that is solid. What is driving the change is controversial ... just how much of the change component is anthropomorphic, from our cultural traditions of deforestation and burning fossil fuels? That's the part that is uncertain, and of course that's the part that is also highly politicized. cn

~giggle~ Regarding the homophone, how many people have you asked to be watching for your package? cn