Which do you think produces the better weed... Hydro or Soil .....Speak your peace...

pSi007

Active Member
Battery acid purchased from an auto parts store is perfectly pure

That is one of the stupidest comments I`ve ever read, there JD.. I wished I could take back the karma I gave you. :)

It is a CARCINOGEN and causes cancer.. Here is some info:
http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1761.pdf




BTW the pH of citric acid is about 2.
spurting off more lies and other misinformation, of which, you have no understanding? What do we call that? :) It seems I made a mistake, 1.6lbs is my bottle size, not the pH. Earth Juice Natural Down is pH 1.2, crystallized and dry powder. It is MUCH stronger than GH pH down.

regarding your comments, I think you are just saying what everyone has written in the past about act, I feel otherwise.. When I brew for 3-4 days, my meals are not completely dissolved into a slime. It takes about a week or 2 for the meals to turn into a slime, I then sterilize it with a very acidic pH. It brews for a couple of more days to kick off the Krebs cycle as well as restart the microbes. This way, I feel I am harnessing more of the meals I use. Since I use meals from ACT brews in hydro, I need to make sure they are super portable. If I don't brew long enough, I have to use 5x more fertilizer and I still can't pull out all of the nitrogen. I have been doing this for a while, for fun - For myself.


This is one reason why I will NEVER put carcinogens in my herbs, as some retarded jackasses are trying to kill people.
 

big bud 56

Active Member
That's a myth,hydro and soil finishing times are about the same.
I should know,I've grown in both.
Hydro will grow faster than soil or soiless, but what do so you mean by better? More weight? More THC? Bigger, juicier, tighter buds (damn I am getting excited...lol)? I'd think whichever medium allows you to deliver exactly the amount of nutrients the plant needs would be the best. Let me know, eh :eyesmoke:

R2T :peace:
 

ricky6991

Well-Known Member
Idk everyone says that... co2, hydro, soil i have never noticed an earlier finishing time...

They just allow more growth to take place in same time frame rather then maturing faster. If anything maybe calyxes will mature faster because new ones are popping out at faster rates. I dont think there is any set amount of calyxes you can grow. Certain ones develope faster than other imo. Tops always mature quicker.
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
I grew in soil when I was young and strong and didn't mind haulin' around all that heavy dirt. Now that I'm an old fart...I do hydro and let pumps do all the work.

But regarding smoke quality...I feel it's all in the cure.
JD
Exactly my thought when I ws reading through this thread, it doesn't matter how it's grown. What matters (for quality) is the timing of the pick based on the maturity/colour of the trichs, depending on what kind of high you want, and proper (slow) drying/curing, the grow medium is just preference…
 

althor

Well-Known Member
Hands down, soil produces the better end product. I can barely smoke hydro. The taste is overwhelming hydro to me. It ruins the flavor of the strain.
 

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
pSi007 wrote: That is one of the stupidest comments I`ve ever read, there JD..
Sheesh, now I feel I have to defend myself. Thanks pSi007 for the date sheet info. I did not know that H2SO4 was carcinogenic. I don't suppose it makes any difference that when in dilute form, H2SO4 breaks down to H+ Sulfur and Oxygen...which are all safe and already present in our reservoirs. And here's one of my sources for it's use:

"Sulfuric acid is probably the best acid with which to lower the pH."

Fron the Aggie Horticultural website entitled Nutrient Solutions for Greenhouse Vegetable Culture at:

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/greenhouse../hydroponics/solutions.html


I didn't bring this up initially and I promise to not mention it again. People make their own choices anyway.
JD
 

Trousers

Well-Known Member
From how i see it...

Plants grow based off the roots condition and what you make avail for the roots to uptake. If you have a synthetic nute that can provide the same nutrients as amended soil with tea or whatever than what is the difference when it comes to smoking it? Not saying they make synthetic nutes which can provide same as all organic amended soil but just saying i dont see a difference in the setups except that hydro can make food always available and that gets better growth.

If there is no such nutes that can have all the food avail for roots to take up all the time for hydro than organic soil has it perks when it comes to quality.
Organic soil offers the plant a wider variety of food from different sources. My soil mix has 57 different things in it.

IMO, after growing hydro and organic soil and using the same genetics, organic soil tastes better and is more powerful.
Since I can easily grow a lot of weed, there is no reason for me to go with hydro. i am out for quality, not quantity.

I am considering using much more coco in my soil mix, which would make me have to feed more and use plain, un PH'd water less.
 

Trousers

Well-Known Member
Exactly my thought when I ws reading through this thread, it doesn't matter how it's grown. What matters (for quality) is the timing of the pick based on the maturity/colour of the trichs, depending on what kind of high you want, and proper (slow) drying/curing, the grow medium is just preference…
No way, how it is grown is at least half the battle.
I gave some cuts to a friend and his weed was terrible before it was cured because he did not know what he was doing.

Let's start and amber versus cloudy versus clear trichome fight now.
That "type of high" thing is grossly exaggerated.
 

supchaka

Well-Known Member
I find that most well grown soil weed tastes kind of the same to me. Earthy. Then the strain comes through a little more near the end of the exhale and the after taste. I've had really good soil and hydro, I've had really bad soil and hydro!
 

Nullis

Moderator
That is one of the stupidest comments I`ve ever read, there JD.. I wished I could take back the karma I gave you. :)

It is a CARCINOGEN and causes cancer.. Here is some info:
http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1761.pdf

spurting off more lies and other misinformation, of which, you have no understanding? What do we call that? :) It seems I made a mistake, 1.6lbs is my bottle size, not the pH. Earth Juice Natural Down is pH 1.2, crystallized and dry powder. It is MUCH stronger than GH pH down.

regarding your comments, I think you are just saying what everyone has written in the past about act, I feel otherwise.. When I brew for 3-4 days, my meals are not completely dissolved into a slime. It takes about a week or 2 for the meals to turn into a slime, I then sterilize it with a very acidic pH. It brews for a couple of more days to kick off the Krebs cycle as well as restart the microbes. This way, I feel I am harnessing more of the meals I use. Since I use meals from ACT brews in hydro, I need to make sure they are super portable. If I don't brew long enough, I have to use 5x more fertilizer and I still can't pull out all of the nitrogen. I have been doing this for a while, for fun - For myself.

This is one reason why I will NEVER put carcinogens in my herbs, as some retarded jackasses are trying to kill people.
You made a mistake, but I am spurting off lies and other misinformation? Riiiight.

And no, not really... that doesn't even sound like an AACT. People don't sterilize their AACT's by any means. The best AACTs are compost\castings\humus with blackstrap and a minor amount of Kelp meal (if any) and fish hydrolysate. The stuff you put in is not supposed to dissolve completely into a slime. Check out: http://www.microbeorganics.com/

Sure you have a good handle on the Krebs cycle there?

Sheesh, now I feel I have to defend myself. Thanks pSi007 for the date sheet info. I did not know that H2SO4 was carcinogenic. I don't suppose it makes any difference that when in dilute form, H2SO4 breaks down to H+ Sulfur and Oxygen...which are all safe and already present in our reservoirs. And here's one of my sources for it's use:

"Sulfuric acid is probably the best acid with which to lower the pH."

Fron the Aggie Horticultural website entitled Nutrient Solutions for Greenhouse Vegetable Culture at:

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/greenhouse../hydroponics/solutions.html

I didn't bring this up initially and I promise to not mention it again. People make their own choices anyway.
JD
Yes it makes a difference. Also, sulfuric acid MIST is known to be carcinogenic (just when inhaled)... not solutions of it (not that I use the stuff anyways).
http://www.hpa.org.uk/webc/hpawebfile/hpaweb_c/1202115622321
 

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
You know Nullis...I'm not sure whose side you're on. And when I said "I don't suppose it matters..." I was being sarcastic to pSi007.

Back on topic (so I don't get my hand slapped) On the subject of organic vs inorganic: I will cite the venerable AlB Fuct, the plant can only use nutrients in their chemical form. So you add compost...but the plant selects NPK to absorb (plus a host of micro-nutrients) So really, I guess it doesn't matter from a certain perspective.
JD
 

Trousers

Well-Known Member
This is the general state of mind regarding this subject. I, however, am a veteran on growing cannabis and I know what I am talking about when I say the 10%-15% meals can be further broken down before they are added to the medium. I would not suggest it if I was getting poor results, if you think your results are better, that is fine, don't judge mine - please. :)


I have tested the act brews for many years. I have found that if I brew the organics for weeks, they stabilize the pH to 7.8, due to pathogenic microbes. The large amounts of citrus acid during the last week of brewing will kill the putrefaction and reduce the pH to around 4 or slightly less, depending on how strong the brew is. This will do an acidic sterilization and the citric acid will convert via the Krebs cycle into more usable microbes, nutrients, and elements. When the pH begins to raise again, I add crushed elemental sulfur. After a couple more days, the pH stabilizes and holds at about 6.4 or so for my medium. The pH needs adjusting with citrus acid about 1x per week, it goes off by about pH0.1. The citrus acid restarts the Krebs cycle and gives an immediate form of pH down. Keep in mind, citrus acid is pH 1.4. so it`s fucking heavy shit...


Some jackass actually suggested using the acid from a lead battery.. What a dumb fuck.. LEAD POISONING! :weed:

The Coir / Perlite medium is ultra light, a half-gallon pot would have a wet weight of about 2 or 3lbs - This is too aerated for anaerobic microbes to live. My "tea" is black, the res water is black, it does not smell like death or shit, it works.


I like to KIS, you apparently do not.

Just dumped a 37.5 hour brewed tea on my plants. No PH or anything, just dumped it on there.
 

Nullis

Moderator
You know Nullis...I'm not sure whose side you're on. And when I said "I don't suppose it matters..." I was being sarcastic to pSi007.

Back on topic (so I don't get my hand slapped) On the subject of organic vs inorganic: I will cite the venerable AlB Fuct, the plant can only use nutrients in their chemical form. So you add compost...but the plant selects NPK to absorb (plus a host of micro-nutrients) So really, I guess it doesn't matter from a certain perspective.
JD
As far as sulfuric acid goes, I agree with you that it is not carcinogenic in solution, and not in diluted solutions, and is probably just fine for use as pH down in hydroponics. Sulfuric acid is carcinogenic when inhaled. Nobody who grows hydroponically should be using fuming sulfuric acid, and saying that people who use diluted solutions of it for growing are "adding carcinogens" is a stretch by any sense of the word.

However, there is something really big you're missing with the "plants can only use nutrients in their chemical form" perspective. There is another reason for adding compost/earthworm castings besides providing nutrients. Plant roots absorb [most] nutrients as simple ions or charged particles: cations are positively charged, anions are negatively charged. They are "inorganic" in the sense that the particles themselves are carbon free.

Nitrogen is the only nutrient that can come as either a cation (NH[SUB]4[/SUB][SUP]+[/SUP]) or an anion (NO[SUB][SUP]3[/SUP][/SUB][SUP]-[/SUP]). Many are available as cations: Ca[SUP]2+[/SUP], Mg[SUP]2+[/SUP], K[SUP]+[/SUP], Fe[SUP]2/3+[/SUP], Zn[SUP]2+[/SUP], Mn[SUP]2+[/SUP],Na[SUP]+[/SUP], Cu[SUP]2+[/SUP]. Others are anions: Cl-, S[SUP]2-[/SUP], MoO[SUB]4[/SUB][SUP]2-[/SUP] (molybdate), H[SUB]2[/SUB]PO[SUB]4[/SUB][SUP]-[/SUP] and HPO[SUB]4[/SUB][SUP]2-[/SUP] (ortho-phosphates primarily), H[SUB]2[/SUB]BO[SUB]3[/SUB][SUP]-[/SUP] (borate), etc. In soil ammonium is readily converted to nitrate by microbes. Other elements have their own peculiarities, for example P has a tendency to form complexes with other things in the soil that result in it becoming unavailable. They may also displace or interact or compete with each other.
Ion charge is an important consideration because humus/compost/soil, clay as well as sphagnum and coco coir (used in potting mix) actually have a tendency to hold onto the cations (cation exchange capacity). Soil, or humus/clay particles possess a net negative charge, which allows them to hold onto cations such that they will not leach out of the soil, but remain plant available. Those anions which do not precipitate or complex with organic matter have a tendency to leach out of the soil, and concentrations of them can be low in the soil solution.

Luckily, plants didn't evolve alone, and soil is not an inert material by any means. Forest soil\humus is alive with thousands of different species of bacteria/archaea and fungi as well as other microbes and beneficial organisms. Plants establish mutually beneficial (symbiotic) relationships with a variety of micro-organisms, which the plant helps to support via plant root exudates, including carbohydrates. One of the most notable relationships is between the plant root and several species of fungi which are referred to as mycorrhizal fungi. This kind of fungi forms an intimate relationship with plant roots, either penetrating the root cells or forming a sheath around them, and they go out in search of minerals (particularly phosphorous) and water to bring back to the plant. The way hyphae grow they are able to branch out and increase their surface area much more efficiently than plant roots, they can go places the roots can't get to and fungi have enzymes that allow them to digest and dissolve materials to convert them to plant available form.

A primary role of bacteria and fungi is to decompose organic matter, resulting in plant available nutrients; while other microbes eat the bacteria and fungi and each other, resulting in even more plant available nutrients. But this whole process results in more than just plant available nutrients. Humus is the end result of composting/leaf litter and vegetative decomposition. It has micro-organisms and plant usable nutrients, but also humates, humic substances and humic/fulvic acids. Humic and fulvic acids are natural chelating agents. They form plant available complexes with certain metals and micro-nutrients, assisting with nutrient availability and transport. Certain kinds of bacteria/archae can even take the nitrogen gas from the atmosphere and turn it into ammonium (NH[SUB]4[/SUB]+), while others can further change it into nitrate.

Microbes in organic soil do even more than make nutrients available, protecting the plants from predators, regulating pH in the rhizosphere, producing antimicrobial compounds and even plant growth regulators/hormones. Really, the plant is selecting which microbes to stimulate for greatest benefit to itself.
 

JohnDee

Well-Known Member
Wow Nullis,
You must be straight today! So all you wrote is still about nutrient chemical availability...and in theory, a good chemical hydro mix should be able to provide all that.

I've been thinking on this...and I don't have much science to back it up. Well, like when you eat asparagus and your piss smells funny. That's from a chemical called methyl mercaptan that's filtered by your kidneys.

So what I'm saying is that there must be a variety of similar chemicals present in organic soil that ARE absorbed by the roots and remain in the bud to enhance flavors. I would argue that organic bud is no stronger nor does it yield better...it may only taste better because of the oganic "soup" that it grows in. Just don't feed your plants asparagus!

So actually this thread might more accurately reflect differences if the argument was organic vs inorganic. And since I do hydro and not soil and chemical and not organic: I still maintain hydro does it better.
JD
 

Nullis

Moderator
Soil sort of necessitates organic to me because, soil outdoors is alive and that life nourishes the plants as well. More than anything the microbes in soil, especially the strongly symbiotic ones, are enhancing nutrient availability and absorption but that certainly isn't all they are doing. If plants have better access to nutrients they are going to grow better, probably yield more and maybe even taste better, etc.

But there is much more in soil that isn't in any hydro nutrient mix. Even if you just want to get down to trace minerals and the super trace or rare earth elements and how they play into the activity of microbes and plants.
 

Blitzedgrowkid08

Well-Known Member
Soil sort of necessitates organic to me because, soil outdoors is alive and that life nourishes the plants as well. More than anything the microbes in soil, especially the strongly symbiotic ones, are enhancing nutrient availability and absorption but that certainly isn't all they are doing. If plants have better access to nutrients they are going to grow better, probably yield more and maybe even taste better, etc.

But there is much more in soil that isn't in any hydro nutrient mix. Even if you just want to get down to trace minerals and the super trace or rare earth elements and how they play into the activity of microbes and plants.
Definitely agree Nullis. Soil is the way to go if quality is what your after. There is no compromise but I do want to dive into dwc too along with my soil grows for extra knowledge and hopefully a plus on the yield
 
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