True men are feminist, a progressive thread!

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
i'll be turning this one over in my head to come up with a better response too, because all i can think is "should we start at page one of feminism 101 lit?".
Let's distinguish between feminism the idea and its literary presence. There's an awful lot of postmodern twaddle out there. All i have to do is invoke the word "phallocentric"to pull the brakes off that fail train. I'd rather not conflate the sound idea of equality for women with the sort of over-analysis that wants to show that men are inherently, irredeemably the problem. That way lies female supremacism, which isn't any better than the problem of patriarchal mindset (I've accepted that it is synonymous with male Chauvinist) feminists are addressing.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Let's distinguish between feminism the idea and its literary presence. There's an awful lot of postmodern twaddle out there. All i have to do is invoke the word "phallocentric"to pull the brakes off that fail train. I'd rather not conflate the sound idea of equality for women with the sort of over-analysis that wants to show that men are inherently, irredeemably the problem. That way lies female supremacism, which isn't any better than the problem of patriarchal mindset (I've accepted that it is synonymous with male Chauvinist) feminists are addressing.
if men aren't standing in the way of actual, true equality for women, then who is?

feminism isn't inherently anti-male in any way either, it is actually pro male. feminism takes aim at gender roles that hurt not only women, but men as well.

the problem arises with obvious misogynists like desert dude looking at it from a zero sum standpoint, any rights women gain are rights that he feels are being taken away from him. it's very interesting how similar the power struggle is to the civil rights movement, LGBTQ quest for equality, and the like.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Tell me more. If I am stuck in an incomplete awareness, I need to fix that.
i'll be better able to articulate in a year or two, once the misogynists who start taking aim at hillary get me on my game. but equal rights is just part of it, gender roles, bodily autonomy and much, much more is also part of the picture.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
I agree with Marilyn, men and women complement each other:


do you honestly think feminists are preaching gender separatism, or is this the best your feeble little mind could conjure during your porn search?

did you just feel like rebutting an argument no one was making so you could claim some sort of victory?

sad.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
Yea i expected response like "poor grammar", "Marxism" "racist"etc etc first off, seriously your going to try and bash everything i said because of typos caused by a broken iphone screen? An no im not segerfgating, im simply trying to start a thread in which feminist ideas and concepts can evolve out of love and respect, you guys are prime examples of how fucked up everything is and cant have a decent conversation without HATE. And 2nd no feminism is not marxism, sure they are similar in terms of ending oppression, but no they are not the same. one can be feminist and not be a marxist such as myself. and no im not racist im simply pointing out what is true. I can see why u would be offended assumig your white, but hey your getting a taste of what colored people go through on the daily for the past hundreds if not thousands of years. why are you guys scared of women or feminism? Why would you want a war on women? Do you not have women in your lives? A daughter? this is what i dont understand, seriously, if a women is beig raped would u try to stop it? Or laugh? If you choose laugh then you are not human. And if you choose to stand up for the victim, then this is a step towards feminism.
Claiming that only "white supremacists" have the traits you speak of is nothing but racism. There's just no other way to see it. Accusing people you have never met nor know anything about of oppressing women solely because they think your assumptions are way off base is you being the hater, not those you accuse.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
notice the consistent narrative people like you bring us, whether it be racist, anti-gay, or misogynistic:

His point is that the government is treating women like they are too stupid or incapable of obtaining birth control for themselves and thus the government needs to step in and do it for them

His point is that the government is treating ni***rs like they are too stupid or incapable of obtaining civil rights for themselves and thus the government needs to step in and do it for them


His point is that the government is treating gays like they are too stupid or incapable of obtaining workplace rights for themselves and thus the government needs to step in and do it for them



it is thanks to hateful bigots like you that there are so many perfect parallels between anti-gay bigotry, misogyny and racism.

if the ideas get conflated, as they did with OP, it is because of people like you who conflated them.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Bet all you "feminists" don't like this lady:

you are just intent on proving your own idiocy now.

‘'The feminists hate me, don’t they? And I don’t blame them. For I hate feminism. It is poison.”
- thatcher


but since she did believe in climate change, gun control, and socialized medicine, i'm sure that YOU must be a fan of her, right?
 

foreverflyhi

Well-Known Member
Here's the thing from my perspective.
Your definition provided on the opening post is broken.

Feminism is about securing equal rights for women in both law and society.

It is emphatically NOT about race, ideology or revolution.

This is where I disagree i.a. with UncleBuck about Feminism 101, at least as I have experienced it. There are some actual feminists there, and some hyperfeminists as suggested by your OP definition. These are the overreachers.

Let me be clear: there is a war on women. (Although I suspect you and I would strongly disagree about its shape.) I want it to end. I am very suspicious though of tagalong agendas. You implied that to be a feminist, one needs to be nonwhite and Marxist. This I reject.

I saw your Bell Hooks quotes in a different thread. I find them good and true. Have you read them? Isn't she asking for equality? is there even a hint of crosstalk in there about race and economic politics? I admit I haven't read more of her, but going just by those two quotes, I like what I've seen. I'll stop that the moment I see any trace of political agenda (such as a demand for socialism) or the sort of sly reverse bigotry that says women are better than men. I've seen that viewpoint championed, and I see that as swapping one ill for another - patriarchy for matriarchy. Only through equality in rights and opportunities, combined with a respect for the real physical differences between the sexes and a willing to leverage those by cooperating, men with women and women with men, and all within their sexes too ... do I see a stable way forward.
I am a feminist.
But I reject hyper- and radical feminism.

Thank you for your well put response.

i completly understand everything you said.

if i implied that marxism and being not white is part of feminism, i apologize, this is not what i meant, im simply implying that most of todays problems is caused by capitalism, who runs these CEO companies? Who runs the majority of the senate? Or government, white hetro sexual men.

Im going to leave the marxist debate behind because i feel it will go off track, and thats not what i want in this thread. Would i would like to see is pist like yours, and unclebucks.

Now this might b confusing so i will do my best.

No feminism is NOT necessary equality. Bare with me please, equality would mean that women have the same rights that oppressive men currently have. this is not what is the ultimate goal, the goal is to reshape (revolutionize) how opression comes into the daily lives of all people, especially those of color, lgbtq, women and children. Make sense?

Yes i have read many bell hooks books. Here are some books in my arsenal


And some more qoutes from bell hooks Feminism is for everyone


"As all advocates of feminist politics know most people do not understand sexism or if they do they think it is not a problem. Masses of people think that feminism is always and only about women seeking to be equal to men. And a huge majority of these folks think feminism is anti-male. Their misunderstanding of feminist politics reflects the reality that most folks learn about feminism from patriarchal mass media."

Last but not least

"Visionary feminism is a wise and loving politics. It is rooted in the love of male and female being, refusing to privilege one over the other. The soul of feminist politics is the commitment to ending patriarchal domination of women and men, girls and boys. Love cannot exist in any relationship that is based on domination and coercion. Males cannot love themselves in patriarchal culture if their very self-definition relies on submission to patriarchal rules. When men embrace feminist thinking and preactice, which emphasizes the value of mutual growth and self-actualization in all relationships, their emotional well-being will be enhanced. A genuine feminist politics always brings us from bondage to freedom, from lovelessness to loving."
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
if men aren't standing in the way of actual, true equality for women, then who is?

feminism isn't inherently anti-male in any way either, it is actually pro male. feminism takes aim at gender roles that hurt not only women, but men as well.

the problem arises with obvious misogynists like desert dude looking at it from a zero sum standpoint, any rights women gain are rights that he feels are being taken away from him. it's very interesting how similar the power struggle is to the civil rights movement, LGBTQ quest for equality, and the like.
I love women and think they're beautiful. I love men and think they're rugged and handsome. Spartacus on Stars shows the duality between man made and nature. From pure man which develops into men loving and adopting ironically a femine quality, to a pure women in control and who must take the burden of taking care of the men when attacked from without. Because at most you can strive for protection from within., but you have no protection from the male domination of nature. At best you can embrace the needs of basic nature and let people go out on a fun retreat where men can be men and women can be women. But a feelings circle should be in both retreats..
 

foreverflyhi

Well-Known Member
Claiming that only "white supremacists" have the traits you speak of is nothing but racism. There's just no other way to see it. Accusing people you have never met nor know anything about of oppressing women solely because they think your assumptions are way off base is you being the hater, not those you accuse.
Looks like your avoiding my question, do you have a daughter? Wife? MOTHER? If so, how can u say the things u have said? What are you scared of?
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
No feminism is NOT necessary equality. Bare with me please, equality would mean that women have the same rights that oppressive men currently have. this is not what is the ultimate goal, the goal is to reshape (revolutionize) how opression comes into the daily lives of all people, especially those of color, lgbtq, women and children. Make sense?
i wasn't gonna do it until you earned it, but you earned it.

+rep.

anthonyweiner and his beautiful white pussy like this post


 
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