The Prop-19 people are taking a poll

Ernst · Feb 25, 2011

http://www.theweedblog.com/help-improve-california-marijuana-legalization-effort/#comment-3688

Direct link http://www.taxcannabis.org/page/m/1c6125cd/5061a420/36cd26f2/abad638/1910684022/VEsH/

I'd say tell them NO we don't want that Prop-19 Control 5x5 crap.. Give us real Legalization or go back to Texas!

Friends we must not follow people trying to polish up a "All in One" initiative.
All in one ,means that if it fails only Industry will still have rights like they did after prop 19.

So unless the next Initiative is really liberal by granting us full horticulture right and in a separate initiative to allow the voters to choose what the age will be 18 or 21 I will be against another tax and control attempt.. They will be wasting our time while they continue to make millions.

You See industry players gain by keeping it illegal and if they craft an initiative that is great for them if it passes but also great for them if it doesn't then we are having our leg pulled that they actually care about the little people beyond offering them a longer chain.

So I say KISS keep it simple.. Legalize for the people and we build from there.
It is going to take time to change things and an all in one initiative is not the answer because Prop 19 has failed twice already.
2 Strikes for business and 0 strikes for (215) for the people!

So it's on you.. Support a waste of time or we pass simple rules every one can understand.

But by all means go post comments.

Click that link and complain your best.. Kissing their asses is the wrong thing to do after they failed and wasted our hopes and dreams..
Letting them do it again is dead wrong.

We are all one so there has to be some basic foundation that will empower the people and open the door for business..
But Business first? Hell no.. This is California We swing way left.

Ernst · Feb 26, 2011

Rust never sleeps!

These guys are wanting to know which way the wind blows.. Send them your hot air and soon before they get a artificial seance of superiority like they did the last time.

Democracy works only if we participate.

undertheice · Feb 26, 2011

Ernst said:
Send them your hot air and soon before they get an artificial sense of superiority like they did the last time.

who is it you think has this sense of superiority, the ones who realize the compromises we must all make or those who feel they deserve it all in one fell swoop. hot air is right, that's exactly what it is. you seem to expect to get everything you want all at once, a naive conceit and a hindrance to those who understand what we are asking of this society.

Johnnyorganic · Feb 26, 2011

Exactly WTF, in your opinion, is wrong with Texas?

My grow is robust. It's just not free.

And I am not forced to fraudulently claim I am a brokedick, nor do I require anyone's permission in order to grow.

I give myself permission.

I wonder how many people who talk (type) smack about Texas have never visited, much less lived here?

UncleBuck · Feb 26, 2011

Johnnyorganic said:
Exactly WTF, in your opinion, is wrong with Texas?

My grow is robust. It's just not free.

And I am not forced to fraudulently claim I am a brokedick, nor do I require anyone's permission in order to grow.

I give myself permission.

I wonder how many people who talk (type) smack about Texas have never visited, much less lived here?

i have spent the last several autumns and springs in texas (barely). actually, i rested my head in santa teresa, new mexico...although i could walk to texas in about 3 minutes.

one thing that surprised me about texas was how nice and how cordial the people were. i did not expect any place on earth to be friendlier than portland, but el paso was pretty close. not nasty like phoenix or new jersey.

i am a brokedick in oregon because i have a 'chronic muscle spasm' in my trapezius muscle. i like being a brokedick because it protects me from all state prosecution. also, it allows me to push the plant limits...if for any reason i am searched, i only have to dispose of any plants above my limit (but i would never be searched).

in any case, desal with the fact that texas is FUCKED. you know it, too.

but i think the OP was just turning a phrase. i don't think he hates texas as much as it allowed him to turn a phrase.

just like if i told you to drop the hippy bullshit or go back to oregon

Ernst · Feb 27, 2011

Did I mention that the poll is for California?

Texas is one messed up state for cannabis. Maybe just Maybe it will get a medical cannabis program some day but for now a person can still get a life sentence for cannabis but who cares?

As to what we get and the path that takes; We will get what we fight for.
As for the rest.. Horticulture rights for the people is the foundation of cannabis freedom. That funky ass prop 19 5x5 crap wasn't freedom for the people it was a new form of prohibition where the people had to kiss some land owner's ass to have even one plant in the yard.. If you could at all.

Texas aside.. The Prop-19 folks are having a poll. Go tell them what you think.
If you are not in California then just move along and have a nice day.

Ernst

Ernst · Feb 27, 2011

undertheice said:
who is it you think has this sense of superiority, the ones who realize the compromises we must all make or those who feel they deserve it all in one fell swoop. hot air is right, that's exactly what it is. you seem to expect to get everything you want all at once, a naive conceit and a hindrance to those who understand what we are asking of this society.

Did I tell you I went to the meetings? Well One of them anyway.
Lee and the group didn't listen to common sense but then again it turned out to be a neo-conservative approach to Cannabis legalization..

Like I point out Industry will try and use freedom for the people to obtain permission for industry. The Prop 19 offer was Horticulture in 5x5 if a rich person gave you permission and then just on garden per property and they skipped individual rights altogether. I'd say thinking that qualifies for a sense of superiority.
So what new offer of incomplete cannabis freedom will the Prop 19 folks try sell us next. Remember if we waste the next election cycle voting down more BS like Prop 19 was then yes they can leave California as far as I am concerned and the State will be better for it.

I am for the 5 things by the way. http://california2012.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=202

I figure we should start with freedom for living beings and that means people who are breathing and alive. Forget Corporations this election cycle.
Got to have a pulse to get Cannabis rights I say.. so any initiative that has rights for non-living corporations needs to be DOA ( dead on arrival )
Personally I have had enough of Cannabis Millionaires making Bank while the people lose their livelihoods and homes so Any Cannabis Initiative I vote yes for had better swing hard left and do something for the people..

Well.. It looks like the cycle of respite on California's Cannabis Legalization is over.. Back to the struggle for Cannabis freedom.

Count on Me supporting True Legalization for the people. Anything less is snake oil.. Will Prop 19 the third be a bottle of Snake-oil like prop-19 the second?
So, Do go share your own opinion with them.. After all they pushed incomplete cannabis freedom last time and they may try again. Let them know how you feel.

Swing hard left California! Haven't we had enough anti-freedom and anti-choice from Conservatives already?

Ernst · Feb 27, 2011

UncleBuck said:
i have spent the last several autumns and springs in texas (barely). actually, i rested my head in santa teresa, new mexico...although i could walk to texas in about 3 minutes.

one thing that surprised me about texas was how nice and how cordial the people were. i did not expect any place on earth to be friendlier than portland, but el paso was pretty close. not nasty like phoenix or new jersey.

i am a brokedick in oregon because i have a 'chronic muscle spasm' in my trapezius muscle. i like being a brokedick because it protects me from all state prosecution. also, it allows me to push the plant limits...if for any reason i am searched, i only have to dispose of any plants above my limit (but i would never be searched).

in any case, desal with the fact that texas is FUCKED. you know it, too.

but i think the OP was just turning a phrase. i don't think he hates texas as much as it allowed him to turn a phrase.

just like if i told you to drop the hippy bullshit or go back to Oregon

Yes a turn of the phrase because Richard Lee is the icon of prop-19 the second and he is a Texas libertarian .

------------------------------

More on my position for 2012.

I am a Native Californian who is pushing the cannabis issue to the left. I figure that if we don't get rights to grow plants for breeding purposes then we are going to be "F****D"
If we let our greed rule the day then we hand to the next generation only modified prohibition rather than Canna-Freedom.

So lets do this right. Do a simple and clear language Initiative to legalize for the people. Let's not try and draft an all in one (Business-Drug_Policy,Decrim) initiative.

For the People in 2012! Let our paid legislators define business and drug policy after we give clear legal rights to the people!
Another loser Initiative like prop-19 is will keep people from Canna-Freedom while business still makes bank!

If we cannot pass simple and clear rights for people then how in the hell will a complex and suspicious initiative pass?
Prop 19 didn't pass and a remake will waste California's time and keep "we the people" criminals another two years while some people make millions.
I have a hard tine with the knowledge that a crop can be sold by business but the right to grow that crop is a crime for the rest.

This is a time for canna-industry to step back and support the rights for common people over their business interests. Legalize for the people first!

Johnnyorganic · Feb 27, 2011

The notion that Texas has draconian cannabis laws is an inaccurate stereotype. Texas law is in line with the other non-medical states.

No one will get a life sentence for simple possession in Texas. In fact, one might not even go to jail at all. The laws have changed. Educate yourself before making asinine statements.

Where Texas is serious is in its focus on trafficking. I have no problem with that. I am no friend of the cartels.

I hope Texas never goes medical. The medical cannabis movement diverts resources and support from the ultimate goal: Re-legalization.

Ernst · Feb 27, 2011

Johnnyorganic said:
The notion that Texas has draconian cannabis laws is an inaccurate stereotype. Texas law is in line with the other non-medical states.

No one will get a life sentence for simple possession in Texas. In fact, one might not even go to jail at all. The laws have changed. Educate yourself before making asinine statements.

Where Texas is serious is in its focus on trafficking. I have no problem with that. I am no friend of the cartels.

I hope Texas never goes medical. The medical cannabis movement diverts resources and support from the ultimate goal: Re-legalization.

What we can all agree on is that we need to change things in the Whole USA.
California has a history of liberal views so another remade prop 19 will also find that we will turn on it in 2012 if it fails to grant liberal rights for cannabis to the people.

I don't care to distress you over Texas. Just don't get arrested is all I ask. That would be a bummer for you and me.

fdd2blk · Feb 27, 2011

i remember when ALL the prop 19 supporters said we'd all be fucked if it didn't pass. that it was "our only chance". that once it failed the whole world would crack down on weed.

lol

Ernst · Feb 27, 2011

I remember it being said we should support this (prop 19) because they knew the right way to compromise.

Everything and everyone else was wrong.

I believe what we need is open debates not private polls.

I say Dare to Want More! 5x5 if you own property is so 1700's

medicineman · Feb 27, 2011

Johnnyorganic said:
The notion that Texas has draconian cannabis laws is an inaccurate stereotype. Texas law is in line with the other non-medical states.

No one will get a life sentence for simple possession in Texas. In fact, one might not even go to jail at all. The laws have changed. Educate yourself before making asinine statements.

Where Texas is serious is in its focus on trafficking. I have no problem with that. I am no friend of the cartels.

I hope Texas never goes medical. The medical cannabis movement diverts resources and support from the ultimate goal: Re-legalization.

Back in the 60s there was a guy doing life for simple possession in Texas, I know it's true, because I read it in playboy in the 60s, (Subtle humor). Nevadas MJ laws were equally draconian in the past, but Texas has not always been MJ friendly. In Nv. now, the cops mainly pick on the idiots that rub it in their faces, or are just too stupid to be clandestined. If you are out driving around getting stoned and get pulled over and the cop smells it, they are going to search and if they find any, the owner of such pot is going to jail, get a ticket or a court date where the defense lawyers can make their bank. It is still a game and the user loses. I wonder if any of those Californians that voted prop 19 down ever spent a night or more in Jail over Marijuana.

Johnnyorganic · Feb 27, 2011

I am not denying Texas law dealt harshly with users FIFTY fucking years ago.

I am simply stating that the old stereotype no longer applies.

I understand Ernst was simply making a point, however. :peace:

As far as driving and smoking is concerned; that's just asking to get caught. It's no different than driving around with an open container. There's no legal remedy for stupid.

UncleBuck · Feb 27, 2011

fdd2blk said:
i remember when ALL the prop 19 supporters said we'd all be fucked if it didn't pass. that it was "our only chance". that once it failed the whole world would crack down on weed.

lol

ALL of the prop 19 supporters?

i remember supporting that prop and urging all my california family and friends to do the same.

i don't remember saying it was our only chance or that a weed crackdown would ensue should it fail.

the internet remembers everything. perhaps you can show me where i said that, since your statement applies to ALL prop 19 supporters.

UncleBuck · Feb 27, 2011

Johnnyorganic said:
I am not denying Texas law dealt harshly with users FIFTY fucking years ago.

I am simply stating that the old stereotype no longer applies.

I understand Ernst was simply making a point, however.

As far as driving and smoking is concerned; that's just asking to get caught. It's no different than driving around with an open container. There's no legal remedy for stupid.

here in oregon, cannabis possesion is a simple ticket. a fine. nothing.

AND we have cannabis as a schedule 2 substance, formally recognizing its medicinal properties. only state in the nation.

i will not be surprised when we legaize before cali does.

Ernst · Feb 28, 2011

In California, Taxing and Canna-millionaires are coming before legalization and We have made having that Cannabis a fine to help that political objective to stay on track.
The People will be the last to benefit because Government and the Industry are setting it up that way.
It's obvious.

If you look at the prop 19 people they are pushing Taxing over Legalization for 2012.

Like I have said way too conservative. If we follow up 2010 with a failed attempt in 2012 then this path of Taxing and criminality will become the way things will be forever!

It's time to swing hard left even if you are a far right supporter when it comes to Cannabis.
We should save Cannabis and skip Humanity's current stupidity.

Ernst · Feb 28, 2011

Johnnyorganic said:
I am not denying Texas law dealt harshly with users FIFTY fucking years ago.

I am simply stating that the old stereotype no longer applies.

I understand Ernst was simply making a point, however.

As far as driving and smoking is concerned; that's just asking to get caught. It's no different than driving around with an open container. There's no legal remedy for stupid.

My Daughter is in Oklahoma. She asked me really nice to share some of my genetics and produce. I wouldn't blink twice to do that for her as my daughter but as a citizen of Oklahoma and my Daughter I told her I wouldn't ever consider placing her at risk.
So it's not just Texas that I am fearful of over human rights and cannabis.

Ernst · Feb 28, 2011

medicineman said:
Back in the 60s there was a guy doing life for simple possession in Texas, I know it's true, because I read it in playboy in the 60s, (Subtle humor). Nevadas MJ laws were equally draconian in the past, but Texas has not always been MJ friendly. In Nv. now, the cops mainly pick on the idiots that rub it in their faces, or are just too stupid to be clandestined. If you are out driving around getting stoned and get pulled over and the cop smells it, they are going to search and if they find any, the owner of such pot is going to jail, get a ticket or a court date where the defense lawyers can make their bank. It is still a game and the user loses. I wonder if any of those Californians that voted prop 19 down ever spent a night or more in Jail over Marijuana.

I was one who was against prop-19 but held my nose and voted yes.

What I see is an exploitation of the Cop-N-Criminal culture prohibition has created. As I say change in culture takes time but the Government types and the Canna-Millionaire types know the tide has turnd and are now benefiting from a form of insider trading. That is why true Legalization is a danger and is not supported by the Prop-19 types.

We can level the field. Since this is a plant and not a manufactured good we simply follow our laws on horticulture as with any crop. We have to make it equally legal for Grandma to breed that strain for her special cookies, I love grandma's that Bake, as well as open the door for fine Cannabis shops.
What we are seeing is the Wal*Mart of Cannabis in Sacramento http://www.sacbee.com/2011/02/27/3433804/wal-mart-of-weed-gardening-store.html when the Citizen can lose their job, home and not qualify for organ transplant let alone medical insurance or medical care.
So the reality, from my perspective, is the Cannabis Revolution is on track but it's not for us average citizens. So far we can say we have "trickle down Legalization." That we may be lucky to live where a medical person will not be evicted for growing a plant in a rental but it's not a State level right and we see the Profiteer of that rental gets more rights to that renters medical cannabis than the actual medical cannabis person does.
Slowly the foundation of plutocracy is being inserted where democratic gains have been made. See Union busting in Wisconsin and elsewhere for more info.
I conjecture that the cannabis movement is now on a track to be in line with plutocracy.

Only voting in some really liberal laws for Cannabis can stop Cannabis as a tool for plutocracy in my opinion and as good natured and well meaning any compromise platform like Prop-19 and the Jack Herer group are suggesting ( see below ) the best thing is for all of us to hold our noses and vote far left in 2012 especially for our beloved Mary Jane..

* from what I know so far the Jack Herer group supports most of what the prop 19 does except they adopt Wine-laws as the basis for legal foundation.

Isn't it time those who do time or did time for cannabis get the benefit of cannabis legalization?
Corporations do not breath nor can they toke.. Why are we handing control of Mary Jane to them.

Food for thoughts guys.. Any feed back on this post?

Ernst · Feb 28, 2011

http://california2012.org/viewforum.php?f=6

My forum and some articles..

Looks like i need to get back to covering the Canna-news.

Trust me working alone it is a bit taxing to read and post every day a dozen or so.

BUT!

We have a discussion of taxing medical cannabis and Steve Kubby, Prop 215 Author, Drafts New initiative to Decriminalize Marijuana

So it's going on and it's taking shape so let's get our people involved.

What we need is a serious open public debate.

Please stop by and have a read.. posting to one site is enough for me.
California2012.org is my humble site.. Help is welcomed.

The Prop-19 people are taking a poll

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