Starting over, new mix - input so I don't dork it up again

Okay, so anyone who's seen my prior thread should know the back-story of made an attempt of a witches brew mix of things on hand and recycling prior media. That didn't go so well and ended up with an extremely hot mix to the point of toxicity on K.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/fixing-a-bad-soil-mix-looking-for-input-suggestions.960942/

I've decided to start over with the goal of not having a lot of 'cook' time required; I'm already late to the party and wanted to be rolling a few weeks ago, but I'll take whatever time is needed to do it right.

I picked up more FFoF (fresh) to use in any mix - I have a lot of amendment options on hand for a 'new' base mix which I have this FFoF, a bag of 'Just Rite' mix, a bag of Happy Frog, some Peat from h/w store and a decent amount of chunky perlite. Then I have several bags of various amendments (i..e kelp, azomite, bone/blood/cottonseed/neem meal. Plenty gypsum/dolo lime and a little crab shell left to use as well. Then there's the super hot P/K mix which I have way too much of - so a 'dash of that could be incorporated or top dressed later. It had all types of other goodies in it (diatomaceous, biochar, old hydroton, mush compost, coco, etc) so if I can make use of any of it (even at 1:10 ration for instance) I'd think it still has something to offer.

So without overdoing things, I was hoping to use some of the additional calcium inputs, the crab shell for its chitin and maybe some neem meal for the early N needs and more importantly for the pest management aspects. The rest I'm open on using or not using any... The goal is for around 30 to 40 gal after mixed.

So I'll turn to the crowd again and ask for input so I don't dick it up like last time. My thinking is go with the base mix (to be determined) adding some liming for ph buferring and getting some extra calcium in there and then maybe everything else should just be amendments later (thought about using tea bags so I could remove if seeing issues)

All ears to those in the know...

Have you considered a 'base mix' from scratch that doesn't use a hodge podge of bagged mixes? Knowing just where you started from goes a long way towards correcting any issues down the line. Guessing where FFOF or 'Just Rite' started from is a bit more problematic.

I have a nice solid base mix I've used for years, but it's all single ingredients and followed very closely with no deviation. The tweaking comes later with whatever is going to be grown in it, but the base remains the same.

A 'bud' likened it to making a cake. You have a recipe to follow. Keep adding ingredients and soon it's no longer cake. Play with the frosting (amendments), not the basic recipe.

Make sense?

Wet

Ok , you got WAY TOO MANY THINGS going on.

There is NO way for you to know in what ratios you are doing plus FF is already amended , so you are just nuking everything. FFOF " alone " has everything in it plus oyster shell to ph control it. It is already PH out of the bag at 6.3. I use Tap Water for watering and feeding - no magic water , just some ph down on hand to zero it in range.

All of that stuff you have on hand could make 20 different type of soils ... No need to guess. Adding perlite to FFOF is a given to help aerate it better and for drainage. FFOF is charged with nutes enough for 5 weeks on just water.

I just do things simple .... You can go by this diagram and can see that the bottom 1/3 of container has the FULL strength FFOF for a SUPER SOIL style boost in flower.




Everybody has got a spin on containers , he'll I use variants on this with different layering .
But if you MUST " make your own " do this mix.
It is a very strong blend that I personally run on water all the way thru. Water only.



This is a NO COOKING REQUIRED MIX. I changed slightly ( if light warrior is not easily found ) - I substituted 1 - 1 1/2 cup of MYCO instead .... I like this way better. But it is a great easy mix.

Well that's sort of where I was heading... figure out a base mix based on Peat/FFoF/EWC/Perlite at some given ratio. And then only adding what is needed, when needed. The 1st major concerns I was still sorting out about using a mix based on FFoF was if it had sufficient liming out of the bag (I've heard that it doesn't) and some pest management aspects (i.e. the neem) since FFoF is also notorious for being buggy/having pests. I did plan on throwing something like mosquito dunks into things pro-actively given that reputation.

NewGrower2011 said:

Well that's sort of where I was heading... figure out a base mix based on Peat/FFoF/EWC/Perlite at some given ratio. And then only adding what is needed, when needed. The 1st major concerns I was still sorting out about using a mix based on FFoF was if it had sufficient liming out of the bag (I've heard that it doesn't) and some pest management aspects (i.e. the neem) since FFoF is also notorious for being buggy/having pests. I did plan on throwing something like mosquito dunks into things pro-actively given that reputation.

Click to expand...

The gnat problem and the low soil ph associated with ffof can often be associated with growers who water to often. When someone adds perlite or something for drainage the soil does not stay as wet and helps with both of these problems.
I'm glad you are backing off fully amending it, if it was depleted after a harvest and was going to be used again, that would be the time to use various amendments IMO.
Happy Growing!

So far I'm thinking of my base being the following for a goal of around 36 gal of media

30% perlite
50% FFoF
10% EWC
10% Peat

From there I haven't made up my mind but I like that as a repeatable/known starting point I could always go back to with a quick/fairly cheap run to the store.

If I wanted to use any of the ph benefitting amendemnts like dolo/gypsum I need to figure out a good ratio to shoot for without overdoing it. Last time a few comments were that my calcium was way low...

NewGrower2011 said:

So far I'm thinking of my base being the following for a goal of around 36 gal of media

30% perlite
50% FFoF
10% EWC
10% Peat

From there I haven't made up my mind but I like that as a repeatable/known starting point I could always go back to with a quick/fairly cheap run to the store.

If I wanted to use any of the ph benefitting amendemnts like dolo/gypsum I need to figure out a good ratio to shoot for without overdoing it. Last time a few comments were that my calcium was way low...

Click to expand...

since FFOF already has dolo (but not enough in my opinion) you could add 1/4 cup per cu.ft., and gypsum i'd run at 1/2 cup per cu. ft. Should be good to go after that as far as Ca and pH buffering.

So with the amendments I have on hand there's a couple I'm still itchin' to include - I dropped the dough on 'em so I'd like to get the benefits from them.

I have a tiny amount of crab shell left in the bag to use up, which I like for the chitin. Probably only a cup or two worth. Then I have the kelp/azomite/neem that I'd like to consider at least using in small quantity - the neem for its pest management primarily. When looking at vermifire product I noted they included greensand which I have on hand here as well along with some DE.

So I'm sold on the base mix/Ca inputs but work's kept me busy and haven't done my homework on the quantity/ratio's to consider for any of the others I'm contemplating how to incorporate still.

NewGrower2011 said:

So with the amendments I have on hand there's a couple I'm still itchin' to include - I dropped the dough on 'em so I'd like to get the benefits from them.

I have a tiny amount of crab shell left in the bag to use up, which I like for the chitin. Probably only a cup or two worth. Then I have the kelp/azomite/neem that I'd like to consider at least using in small quantity - the neem for its pest management primarily. When looking at vermifire product I noted they included greensand which I have on hand here as well along with some DE.

So I'm sold on the base mix/Ca inputs but work's kept me busy and haven't done my homework on the quantity/ratio's to consider for any of the others I'm contemplating how to incorporate still.

Click to expand...

def use the neem meal, 1/2 cup per cu. ft., kelp can be used up to 1 cup per cu. ft., crab at 1/2c per cu.ft., azomite and 1/2cup per cu. ft., greensand up to 1 cup per cu.ft. easy peazy

Budzbuddha said:

Ok , you got WAY TOO MANY THINGS going on.

There is NO way for you to know in what ratios you are doing plus FF is already amended , so you are just nuking everything. FFOF " alone " has everything in it plus oyster shell to ph control it. It is already PH out of the bag at 6.3. I use Tap Water for watering and feeding - no magic water , just some ph down on hand to zero it in range.

All of that stuff you have on hand could make 20 different type of soils ... No need to guess. Adding perlite to FFOF is a given to help aerate it better and for drainage. FFOF is charged with nutes enough for 5 weeks on just water.

I just do things simple .... You can go by this diagram and can see that the bottom 1/3 of container has the FULL strength FFOF for a SUPER SOIL style boost in flower.


View attachment 4114784

Everybody has got a spin on containers , he'll I use variants on this with different layering .
But if you MUST " make your own " do this mix.
It is a very strong blend that I personally run on water all the way thru. Water only.

View attachment 4114786

This is a NO COOKING REQUIRED MIX. I changed slightly ( if light warrior is not easily found ) - I substituted 1 - 1 1/2 cup of MYCO instead .... I like this way better. But it is a great easy mix.

Click to expand...

This is money

After 1 last trip to store to grab some EWC and Ancient Forest (tea use and amendements) I think I'm finally settling in on a repeatable (known) mix to try out. I am wondering how many weeks it'll carry me through - I see many describing their water-only mixes that last the entire run and was hoping to land somewhere along those lines but I can top-dress/feed if needed.

So here's where I'm landing based on my threads, even more reading/homework and lessons learned from the last botched attempt...

FFoF 45%
Perlite 25%
EWC 10%
Coco(Canna) 10%
AncientForest 5%
Turface 5%

I wanted the Coco/AF/Turface in there for various reasons, so I went with them being less than 25% of overall mix. I also think (?) the turface will give some silica inputs over time as it breaks down.

For amendments I'm avoiding npk inputs for most part (some nutes in these but not the reasoning for adding a given item)...

Dolo Lime 1/4 cup per ft/3
Gypsum 1/4 cup per ft/3
Kelp 1/2 cup per ft/3
Neem 1/2 cup per ft/3
Azomite 1/4 cup per ft/3
Greensand 1/4 cup per ft/3
CrabShell 1/4 cup per ft/3

I've intentionally under-shot things on these just in case. I had read elsewhere to try and keep total amendments under (x) cups per ft/3 so I tried to set my range around 2 cups and divy things up so as to fit within that constraint. If folks think I should/could aim higher then I'm open to it but also erring on the safer side of things.

I'm also using the EWC/AncientForest/Crab in a tea that I'll be using for the initial watering in of the mix and then let is sit perhaps a week; I don't think this mix needs 'cooking' since there's no real hot npk inputs.

Whatever u make your base out of I would make it 30/30/40...or 33/33/34...1st base medium..peat if u want to prob make the best over all mix imo with what u have...but tbh I think the smartest thing to do would to use the ff and shit u have...then add amendments when needed ...2nd compost/castings....I'd do a mix of this 33% depending on the quality of the compost and the ewc...half and half of both compost and ewc for the 2nd 33%...then the 3d thing will be you're aeration ...I personally add more aeration than anything else..it's closer to 40% of my mix...not all the exact aeration products I want in it cause mines recycled moonshine mix and has a ton of perlite..but I use rotted wood chunks charged with (you don't have to but I think it's smart)..but charged w rabbit poop and kelp meal..u could use something else....but if say u use the ff for a base I wouldd still add amendments ...w the moonshine mix..which is a lot stronger than just plain ff of...I added my own combo of nutes and my plants loved it...I added 1 1/2 cups per cf of rabbit poop..with the recommend amounts of happy frog fruit and flower..and happy frog jump start..a few 30 lb bags of castings...I also added quite a few nute teas and microbial teas... heavy nute teas too..I did ness up and lock out P early on but I fixed it...butI was being dumb and adding shit way too much ...anyway...with the mixed up ff, compost and ewc, and aeration...I myself would add about 1/2 ta 3/4 cup of kelp meal per cf.... now for the neem..not sure cause iv never used it..but I would DEF use it..sounds like the bees knees..I'd prob go lighter than what a reg mix calls for by 1/3 a cup or so depending on what all and how well your compost was made from too..I would not use the lime..use the Gypsum by 1/2 to a 1/4 of what it usually is called for in cf...crab shell 1/2 cup per cf..greensand ..idk I thought I seen u had it..but if so 1 cup per cf....I would get basalt over azomite..hear it works OK..but has bad metals in it...I'd make a super good diverse microbial tea to jump start it...u could use the ancient forest in the 33% mix w compost and ewc..but I myself would use it in a tea ..if it's what I think it is...I'd bubble 1 cup ewc 1 cup ancient forest 1.2 c compost..hand full of forest dirt.. handful of yard dirt..handful of dirt from under a really old stump or something like that...in a 5 gal bucket w a carb source like molasses...this will help get the microbes going and start a good web..I think I seen u had some other amendments u can use for quick release or u can make teas outa ...I think I'm . missing something i was gonna say but my nephew just came lol..handful for sure...but man I bet my ass with that mix and a lil of this and that hereand there you will grow the best smoke you could buy if u have good growing habits and skills browskie

Curiousity gets the best of me - why not use the lime? I know one "buffers" (depending on school of thought there) and one does not so I thought a dash of both would cover a little additional buffering capacity just in case.

I wouldn't use the lime cause u could use a diff pH buffer that does more than just that..and kill two birds...I also read some shit I can't remember atm about lime use I didn't like so much

So this "does more than just buffer" angle - what would you substitute that would be multi-purpose and still offer the buffering?

Well the 1st part of the deed is done. It's mixed and on a tarp with an aact to wet it in. I've not added any amendments yet and I actually ended up using less Turface than planned so technically I could add more of one of the base components but I think I'll grab a bag of biochar/hort charcoal to make up the difference.

I threw some mosquito bits in the pile and covered with a tarp to try and prevent any pest issues up front; I'm also looking into how much diatom earth to add to the mix (sil content) - or if I should rather wait and just use in top layer as a dressing to fight pests primarily.

I've done more homework on the dolo lime so I think I'll go very light on it (1/8 cup per ft3) and Gypsum at 1/4 cup per since I've seen tihngs about both that could be considered less desirable (read something about compaction with Gypsum iirc - left an impression both could have issues). Hoping small dash of each gets the benefits without the risks/issues.

Fingers crossed - I'll probably send one of those newer soil tests out once it's all done just for the sanity check.

NewGrower2011 said:

So this "does more than just buffer" angle - what would you substitute that would be multi-purpose and still offer the buffering?

Click to expand...

Oyster shell flour