Should I try to stretch my plants?

Blue brother · Nov 22, 2014

Hi all,

I've got 10 bf blue cheese under 1200w hps in cooltubes, they're 4 weeks old from seed, I fimd them at wk 2 as I plan on taking cuttings to keep as mothers so I can keep the best pheno. My bulb is maybe 10 inch from plant tops, plants are about 6 inch tall but super dense and thick with foliage, very short internodal space also.

Would it be wise to lift the lights in order to try and get these girls to stretch, my friend recommended this at first and I was skeptical cos I always thought stretching was bad, but the more I think about it the more it makes sense, if I stretch the new foliage it will be ready to be used for cuttings sooner.
Even if I just do this for a short time, can anyone see any obvious drawbacks that I'm missing?

Thanks in advance for any help

budman111 · Nov 22, 2014

Get the light closer, stretch is a very bad thing.

Blue brother · Nov 22, 2014

Closer than 10 inch? I think my radiant temperature would become too high

Mr.Moniker · Nov 23, 2014

Moving your light source farther away won't force new nodes to grow, it will litterally just make your existing plant stretch it's leaves and stems towards the light.

If you plan on flowering, I would just wait it out and not try to stretch her. Why hinder the development of your buds so you can take some cuttings a little sooner? Especially when your gunna be trimming lower plant growth later on in veg anyways for airflow and energy concentraition in flower

crazyhazey · Nov 23, 2014

thats odd because red spectrum usually causes more node spacing.
if you want to take clones sooner maybe try training your plant so the spots where the branches are coming out are closest to your light source, theyll be the main focus of your plants if theyre photosynthesizing the most, then theyll put out more growth to get closer

Blue brother · Nov 24, 2014

Mr.Moniker said:
Moving your light source farther away won't force new nodes to grow, it will litterally just make your existing plant stretch it's leaves and stems towards the light.

If you plan on flowering, I would just wait it out and not try to stretch her. Why hinder the development of your buds so you can take some cuttings a little sooner? Especially when your gunna be trimming lower plant growth later on in veg anyways for airflow and energy concentraition in flower

Yeah I know it won't force new nodes, the Main reason I want them to stretch is so I can take a couple cuttings from each, put them in the mother room, and flower the plants that came from seedASAP. The main goal of this grow is to find a favourable phenotype to keep as a mother. These girls Already have a LOT of nodes due to me fiming them it's just I'm not confident enough to take cuttings that are so small (2inch). Don't get me wrong I know stretching isn't good and I know why. If I was starting with clones you would never hear me saying this but..... I want some lanky branches lol

Thanks very much for ur input mate

Blue brother · Nov 24, 2014

crazyhazey said:
thats odd because red spectrum usually causes more node spacing.
if you want to take clones sooner maybe try training your plant so the spots where the branches are coming out are closest to your light source, theyll be the main focus of your plants if theyre photosynthesizing the most, then theyll put out more growth to get closer

Yeah mate that's what I thought aswell I actually opted for these bulbs over dual spectrum because I plan to do a sog style grow and (eventually) there will be no need for much vegetive growth.
U think maybe I should bend these ladies over? If I do should I remove the foliage on what will be the underside of the plant? Or just bend it over as it is?

Thanks for your input dude

insidagain · Nov 24, 2014

Adjust your node spacing with temps. Interesting artical. http://www.dailysmoker.com/cannabis-grow-guide/conditions/temperature

Blue brother · Nov 24, 2014

insidagain said:
Adjust your node spacing with temps. Interesting artical. http://www.dailysmoker.com/cannabis-grow-guide/conditions/temperature

What an informative article! I've learned something new, up until their third week my girls were subject to 24 hour light and pretty much constant 25c. A week ago I dropped them to 18/6 and their night time temps dropped to 18c, I read somewhere that thc production is greater when the air remains the same temp day and night so I "tweaked" my ventilation to maintain these temps. Now I'm thinking I should "untweak" the ventilation to bring down these night time temps.

Thank you very much for your link mate

crazyhazey · Nov 24, 2014

Blue brother said:
Yeah mate that's what I thought aswell I actually opted for these bulbs over dual spectrum because I plan to do a sog style grow and (eventually) there will be no need for much vegetive growth.
U think maybe I should bend these ladies over? If I do should I remove the foliage on what will be the underside of the plant? Or just bend it over as it is?

Thanks for your input dude

probably a good idea for your growing style, dual spectrum is good for potency but most use an hps for yield benefits(which most go for when doing sog), then switch to mh or both hps and mh for the last 2-3 weeks for more trich output.

are you planning on doing a perpetual with clones? if so i might still veg for a week or two, they need some time to get ready for flower imo as far as root growth goes, 12/12 from seed or clone should yield a zip per plant with the optimal strain but a little extra veg time can make all the difference as far as yield goes.

and if theyre mothers and you want faster growth branch wise, yes. and i wouldnt remove foliage unless its restricting air flow(leads to mold), those are still good for producing/storing energy needed later on. i sometimes remove smaller branches if they get no light since theyll be another thing pulling energy from the more significant bud sites, but if theyre mothers i may leave them and train the plant so theyre the highest point and get the most attention. and no prob, glad to help man.

Blue brother said:
What an informative article! I've learned something new, up until their third week my girls were subject to 24 hour light and pretty much constant 25c. A week ago I dropped them to 18/6 and their night time temps dropped to 18c, I read somewhere that thc production is greater when the air remains the same temp day and night so I "tweaked" my ventilation to maintain these temps. Now I'm thinking I should "untweak" the ventilation to bring down these night time temps.

Thank you very much for your link mate

if you want faster veg id stick with 24/0 in the future, though letting an hid cool down is probably a good idea. constant temps are good because the plant doesnt get stressed as much, probably not a huge difference in thc production but it likely depends on the difference between temps during lights on and off.

Blue brother · Nov 24, 2014

crazyhazey said:
probably a good idea for your growing style, dual spectrum is good for potency but most use an hps for yield benefits(which most go for when doing sog), then switch to mh or both hps and mh for the last 2-3 weeks for more trich output.

are you planning on doing a perpetual with clones? if so i might still veg for a week or two, they need some time to get ready for flower imo as far as root growth goes, 12/12 from seed or clone should yield a zip per plant with the optimal strain but a little extra veg time can make all the difference as far as yield goes.

and if theyre mothers and you want faster growth branch wise, yes. and i wouldnt remove foliage unless its restricting air flow(leads to mold), those are still good for producing/storing energy needed later on. i sometimes remove smaller branches if they get no light since theyll be another thing pulling energy from the more significant bud sites, but if theyre mothers i may leave them and train the plant so theyre the highest point and get the most attention. and no prob, glad to help man.

if you want faster veg id stick with 24/0 in the future, though letting an hid cool down is probably a good idea. constant temps are good because the plant doesnt get stressed as much, probably not a huge difference in thc production but it likely depends on the difference between temps during lights on and off.

I'm not planning on having plants in different stages of flower if that's what you mean, but I will be keeping moms and clones alone then as soon as the flowering plants are harvested new clones will be going straight in so i suppose it is perpetual in the true sense of the word. Eventually I might experiment with different stages but for now I just wanna learn the technique to be honest.

I'm implementing what I've learned from al b. fuct threads and flowering large clones straight from the propogation area, they're gonna be spaced with 8inch centres in grodan delta 6" blocks, everything from lower 1/3 cut off twice during early bloom period.
I'll be very pleased indeed with an oz per plant on my first run, but like I said I just want to learn the technique first.

Cool dude I'm gonna start bending them over tomorrow.

I can control the environment to maintain constant temperatures day through night regardless of lighting, are you saying this is what will make the plants more vigorous ? Or isit the actual light?

May I ask where you got the information about blue spectrum increasing trichome production? I'm always interested in ways to increase potency. Have you done any tests yourself? Are they documented anywhere? I've read about the use of uv lamps, trying to replicate the light at a certain altitude ( Hindu Kush I think). Apparently this increases trichome production but I've never seen any conclusive evidence but some pretty convincing side by side tests?

Thanks for taking the time to help me out dude ur a star

crazyhazey · Nov 24, 2014

Blue brother said:
I'm not planning on having plants in different stages of flower if that's what you mean, but I will be keeping moms and clones alone then as soon as the flowering plants are harvested new clones will be going straight in so i suppose it is perpetual in the true sense of the word. Eventually I might experiment with different stages but for now I just wanna learn the technique to be honest.

i think perpetual really just means you have plants constantly flowering and vegging, though it may mean throwing more into flower every couple of weeks, ive heard the word used in both instances. after you have different stages things start getting complicated, different nute regiments, having to adjust elevation so they arent too close/far from the light, etc. id just stick with flowering a whole room together, id also do this because id run the last week or so at a very cold temp to increase resin output and get some color on those bitches, if they arent already colorful theyll probably look a lot different if you do this, plus theyre more sticky and frosty imo.

I'm implementing what I've learned from al b. fuct threads and flowering large clones straight from the propogation area, they're gonna be spaced with 8inch centres in grodan delta 6" blocks, everything from lower 1/3 cut off twice during early bloom period.
I'll be very pleased indeed with an oz per plant on my first run, but like I said I just want to learn the technique first.

if theyre good sized clones thats a different story, they have a lot more to work with and will likely root quicker with all the stored energy they have. and do you mean all foliage? i think this would lead to more energy being sent to the top nodes but cutting off leaves would be a bad idea imo. and i mean best case scenario they run a zip off each, this is with something like ak47 or just about any other high yielders.

Cool dude I'm gonna start bending them over tomorrow.

I can control the environment to maintain constant temperatures day through night regardless of lighting, are you saying this is what will make the plants more vigorous ? Or isit the actual light?

May I ask where you got the information about blue spectrum increasing trichome production? I'm always interested in ways to increase potency. Have you done any tests yourself? Are they documented anywhere? I've read about the use of uv lamps, trying to replicate the light at a certain altitude ( Hindu Kush I think). Apparently this increases trichome production but I've never seen any conclusive evidence but some pretty convincing side by side tests?

Thanks for taking the time to help me out dude ur a star

make sure to massage the stem until its flimsy, lightly squeeze it until its forgiving. and more light=more photosynthesizing, though some say root growth is better with a short dark period though i always felt plants switched between foliage growth and root growth, when they really need to they focus on it. keepin temps constant is best for growth as well, they wont have to deal with stress that is caused by fluctuating temps, though if its only like a 5 degree difference i dont think it would be as big of a priority to me.

and its an interesting subject for sure, people say it relates to the amount theyre photosynthesizing, since theres two different types of chlorophyll that both take in different nms of blue and red light, hps being dominantly red, adding blue spectrum causes chlorophyll to produce more. this has also been done by a few growers/breeders, uv supposedly also contributes to output as well, better exposure to sunlight at higher elevations allows them to receive much higher levels. this is how a strain supposedly broke the record at 33% thc, it was grown at the top of a mountain, probably given optimal conditions as well.

many find these full spectrum and uv LEDs to be a lot better on trich output, theyre just getting good enough to compete with hps with yield too, maybe theyll soon surpass it. and no prob man, glad i can help.

Blue brother · Nov 25, 2014

crazyhazey said:
i think perpetual really just means you have plants constantly flowering and vegging, though it may mean throwing more into flower every couple of weeks, ive heard the word used in both instances. after you have different stages things start getting complicated, different nute regiments, having to adjust elevation so they arent too close/far from the light, etc. id just stick with flowering a whole room together, id also do this because id run the last week or so at a very cold temp to increase resin output and get some color on those bitches, if they arent already colorful theyll probably look a lot different if you do this, plus theyre more sticky and frosty imo.

if theyre good sized clones thats a different story, they have a lot more to work with and will likely root quicker with all the stored energy they have. and do you mean all foliage? i think this would lead to more energy being sent to the top nodes but cutting off leaves would be a bad idea imo. and i mean best case scenario they run a zip off each, this is with something like ak47 or just about any other high yielders.

make sure to massage the stem until its flimsy, lightly squeeze it until its forgiving. and more light=more photosynthesizing, though some say root growth is better with a short dark period though i always felt plants switched between foliage growth and root growth, when they really need to they focus on it. keepin temps constant is best for growth as well, they wont have to deal with stress that is caused by fluctuating temps, though if its only like a 5 degree difference i dont think it would be as big of a priority to me.

and its an interesting subject for sure, people say it relates to the amount theyre photosynthesizing, since theres two different types of chlorophyll that both take in different nms of blue and red light, hps being dominantly red, adding blue spectrum causes chlorophyll to produce more. this has also been done by a few growers/breeders, uv supposedly also contributes to output as well, better exposure to sunlight at higher elevations allows them to receive much higher levels. this is how a strain supposedly broke the record at 33% thc, it was grown at the top of a mountain, probably given optimal conditions as well.

many find these full spectrum and uv LEDs to be a lot better on trich output, theyre just getting good enough to compete with hps with yield too, maybe theyll soon surpass it. and no prob man, glad i can help.

Yeah bro I agree that this is the correct meaning of perpetual.
Have you ever tried pouring crushed ice over your media and flushing through it In the last week or so. What kind of temps are we talking here? And are these constant temps yes? Not just cold nights?

When I said cut off everything from the bottom 1/3 I meant just bud producing plant material, not leaves. I'm running blue cheese which isn't a outstanding yielder but still good, but I have 1 LSD which is a high yielder, if taste and quality of high are adequate then il probably keep a clone of that as a mother aswell.

I've just bent them there they look upset lol. They won't be soon though

I accidentally snapped a plants mainstem at about week 2 and I just literally left it alone and now it's very much healed and also the plant with the most vigor.

Do you use both mh and hps? Or just dual spectrum bulbs?
Correct me here if I'm wrong but does that mean you can be at the point of total RED light saturation and be no where near BLUE light saturation, therefor adding more blue would increase production.

I don't know enough about led lighting to chime in here, but I think it would take a lot of conclusive side by side tests for me to switch, it willprobably end up like most grow choices and comed own to preference and necessity. What is the luminous output of a 600w led panel?

crazyhazey · Nov 25, 2014

Blue brother said:
Yeah bro I agree that this is the correct meaning of perpetual.
Have you ever tried pouring crushed ice over your media and flushing through it In the last week or so. What kind of temps are we talking here? And are these constant temps yes? Not just cold nights?

When I said cut off everything from the bottom 1/3 I meant just bud producing plant material, not leaves. I'm running blue cheese which isn't a outstanding yielder but still good, but I have 1 LSD which is a high yielder, if taste and quality of high are adequate then il probably keep a clone of that as a mother aswell.

I've just bent them there they look upset lol. They won't be soon though I accidentally snapped a plants mainstem at about week 2 and I just literally left it alone and now it's very much healed and also the plant with the most vigor.

Do you use both mh and hps? Or just dual spectrum bulbs?
Correct me here if I'm wrong but does that mean you can be at the point of total RED light saturation and be no where near BLUE light saturation, therefor adding more blue would increase production.

I don't know enough about led lighting to chime in here, but I think it would take a lot of conclusive side by side tests for me to switch, it willprobably end up like most grow choices and comed own to preference and necessity. What is the luminous output of a 600w led panel?

its a technique i never really tried, ive just heard of people doing it and killing their plants by over stressing them, its not great for the roots either. and id say somewhere around 50-55 degrees, thats when you start seeing some output, itd be better to keep it constant but even if they only get cold nights ive seen some color change. there is a little bit of stress caused by training but it should subside after a day or two, and whenever this happens i make a splint with a stick and masking tape, or any string available.

personally i flower outdoors most of the time, i got the right strains for it so i avoid a higher power bill all together, dont really have an adequate space for it for the moment either. and exactly, some blue spectrum allows chlorophyll to produce more since its takes in a certain nm blue as well as red. i felt the same way last year but ive been seeing a lot of progress with leds, lamps can be quite overpriced at times but theyre starting to get a bit more economical for smaller grows. and it really depends on the company, ive read threads that say theres already lamps that can match luminosity with a 1000w hps, im yet to see a side by side yet though so im not completely sure about it. theres a pretty popular thread about led panels on here and everybody usually comes on with good evidence, id check it out.

Blue brother · Nov 25, 2014

What strains u growing? Im geussing sativa/sativa dom. I dont enjoy the high i get from smoking sativas it makes me anxious and paranoid. We got some top shelf amnesia haze the other day and it almost wrote me off, mind racing. No likey.

crazyhazey · Nov 25, 2014

some crosses i made from an indica dom and a sativa dom strain i got from a friend who grows in much similar conditions(humid, at times very hot), both have seawarp lineage so theyre great from mold and pm resistance. lookin like 40/60 hybrids, a little more on the sativa side so im gonna let em run some extra weeks, maybe backcross with a heavy indica, herijuanas what i have in mind but well see what happens. and im the same way, though a good sativa is better for the mornings for me, if its too much of an indica i wanna go back to sleep or will likely end up not doin shit all day lol

but thats a haze for ya, if theyre harvested when most do(10-20% amber) they almost always have that effect, also if theyre really sativa dom. i really like super silver though, not too uppity, just the perfect amount of couchlock. headbands another good one thats like that too, it might be closer to a hybrid than sativa dom depending what breeder its from.

GroErr · Nov 26, 2014

Just a thought and practice I've been using for a few rounds with good success. I veg bushy, tight node, trained plants under LED's and flower under CMH, the LED's naturally produce short/tight nodes and the training gets them bushy/wide. I don't keep mom's but I cut any clones I want during an induced stretch period, just prior to flowering. I do this by flipping the lights to 14/10 for about 10-12 days before flipping them to 12/12 and it does 2 things. It induces the normal stretch you get when you flip to 12/12 but with a couple of extra hours of light (when they can use it), and it also induces pre-flowering. I've read that you can actually flower at 14/10 but I've never tried it or left them @14/10 for longer than 10-12 days. I cut my clones around day 7 during what is a natural stretch due to length of day changes and they root as well or better than cutting them during my 18/6 veg cycle. It does what you want but doesn't stretch them any more than they would when you flip straight to 12/12. Also, the time is not wasted, I see buds within 3-4 days of flipping to 12/12 and they finish towards the lower end of breeder times. Have replicated this 4 times with about 8 strains and will be sticking with it going forward. Cheers.

crazyhazey · Nov 26, 2014

GroErr said:
Just a thought and practice I've been using for a few rounds with good success. I veg bushy, tight node, trained plants under LED's and flower under CMH, the LED's naturally produce short/tight nodes and the training gets them bushy/wide. I don't keep mom's but I cut any clones I want during an induced stretch period, just prior to flowering. I do this by flipping the lights to 14/10 for about 10-12 days before flipping them to 12/12 and it does 2 things. It induces the normal stretch you get when you flip to 12/12 but with a couple of extra hours of light (when they can use it), and it also induces pre-flowering. I've read that you can actually flower at 14/10 but I've never tried it or left them @14/10 for longer than 10-12 days. I cut my clones around day 7 during what is a natural stretch due to length of day changes and they root as well or better than cutting them during my 18/6 veg cycle. It does what you want but doesn't stretch them any more than they would when you flip straight to 12/12. Also, the time is not wasted, I see buds within 3-4 days of flipping to 12/12 and they finish towards the lower end of breeder times. Have replicated this 4 times with about 8 strains and will be sticking with it going forward. Cheers.

semi autos can flower under 14/10 like iranian strains since they do in nature, not sure if you can do this with regular photoperiods but some probably can if you switch from 24/0. clones also supposedly root faster when theyre going into flower, likely because they have more energy stored and know the season is close to an end. sounds like a good method though, more photosynthesizing means more output, always wanted to look into growing autos for that reason.

GroErr · Nov 26, 2014

crazyhazey said:
semi autos can flower under 14/10 like iranian strains since they do in nature, not sure if you can do this with regular photoperiods but some probably can if you switch from 24/0. clones also supposedly root faster when theyre going into flower, likely because they have more energy stored and know the season is close to an end. sounds like a good method though, more photosynthesizing means more output, always wanted to look into growing autos for that reason.

Only run photos but In my observations/tests they seem to respond quicker taking them when the parent is in the stretch. A lot of activity/growth going on at that stage, would make sense they'd root faster and take better.

falcao_mufc · Nov 27, 2014

My blue cheese which is 4 weeks old:

I was able to take 2 decent length cuttings off the bottom a few days ago. I was even able to find a couple off the bottom of my northern lights which is same age but tiny:

Should I try to stretch my plants?

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