Organic mix issues

G

Grower899

Well-Known Member
What's up guys, I made an organic mix about 4 months ago, said mix consists of:

33% perlite
33% ewc/compost
33% peat

Amendments were

6 cups azomite, 2 cups lime. 1 cup tomato tone, 1 cup alfalfa meal, 1 cup bat guano, 2 cups kelp meal. Shoulda left the guano out and used basalt instead of azomite but whateves.

So I've used the mix since 30 days after I made it, and it will grow in veg fantastic, however a couple weeks into flower the plant just starts to cannabilize itself. Leaves die from the bottom up, turning yellow and then dying. At first I thought I had a N def, so I added a little fish emulsion, i couldn't really tell a difference.

Then I thought maybe I was over watering, so I left them alone for a while, after watering only every 5 days or so I didn't notice any improvement, and started noticing it usually worsens the day after I water. Maybe my soil doesn't have enough aeration and is compacting over time?

2 purple trainwrecks acted this way, along with a gdp and a ptw clone, in that order. The clone has by far suffered the worst, the plants grow and finish but never to potential. Here's a pic of the clone. That was a couple weeks ago, at this point the entire plant is as yellow as the leaves in the middle. Not sure what's wrong here, about to just stick to coco =/.
20170829_091655.jpg
 
Richard Drysift

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
Maybe you should've flowered in a bigger container. That looks kinda small for the plant size. I find it better to transplant to the largest possible pot in the week just before flipping. The roots need room and space for a healthy soil food web to become established.
Another cool trick is to use spikes and/or layers; I like using jobes organic spikes which are slow release and will feed for 8 weeks. Perfect for a cannabis bloom cycle. I don't do it as much anymore because my mix has become so rich but I used to add a high N layer in the bottom of every final size bloom container. I add some rol soil and mix in cow and chicken manure. Then a thin layer of more recycled soil and then sprinkle in some crushed oyster shell to regulate the ph drop and then a bit more soil and granular myco. The root ball transplant goes directly on top of that and is filled in. Some growers here don't like the idea of spikes and layers but they can help keep plants green if your mix is not yet supernaturally active.
It takes awhile, in my case it was 6 months+, for the mix to become active enough to keep them green all the way to harvest. You need to recycle it a few times before it really begins to work. And always add in more compost either solid or AACT form. Just amending the soil once isn't enough to reach supernatural status.
 
kratos015

kratos015

Well-Known Member
"Maybe my soil doesn't have enough aeration and is compacting over time"

I had this same issue pop up myself, my yields in 2g pots were pretty great where as my yields in my 25g pots suffered. The reason is because I had them directly on the ground and the pots weren't allowed to properly drain themselves or breathe on the bottom. Right away I see they're sitting on dishes, try propping them up on something (bricks, wood, anything really) so that the water can flow out. With organic soil, much like a compost pile, we want things moist like a sponge but not soaked. The reason for this is because your roots and microbes can actually drown if this happens, furthermore this can create anaerobic conditions in the constantly damp part of the medium resulting in an unbalanced and acidic soil. This is also why deficiencies will begin to pop up, because the damp conditions of the soil will make for a more acidic medium, resulting in lock outs.

Furthermore, the reason these issues occur in early-mid flower is because that is usually when the plants get rootbound and the medium being able to properly drain becomes even more crucial. The other thing to consider about the fabric pots is that you want them propped up on something ideally so that the roots on that part of the pot can breathe too. I'm thinking that if you prop the pots on something, wait for the girls to dry out a little, then water to 5-10% runoff you should be fine after that if you keep it up.

The other thing I have a feeling about is the 33% compost/EWC being perhaps too much. This next time around I'll be going with something like 40% peat/40% aeration/20% compost. Your soil will in fact compact over time because of gravity alone, but there's also something else to consider. We start with 33% of EWC/peat/aeration right? Well, eventually the 33% of peat will slowly decompose over time with the organic amendments in the soil. So pretty much, as time goes on the ratio of peat moss you used will go down where as the ratio of compost/EWC goes up. That's because after things start decomposing the mix becomes something more like 20-30% peat, 33% aeration (will remain constant unless you're using rice hulls), and 37-47% EWC/compost. Then eventually you're left with nothing but compost and aeration.

That's why next time I'll be going with 40% peat/40% perlite/20% EWC/compost and every month or so I'll top dress with the same amendments I always use, then cover it with more compost.

I'm starting to think that the longer you anticipate keeping your no-till going is directly proportional to the amount of compost you should have in your mix. I'm no horticulturist/botanist/expert by any means, but this is what I'm starting to think based off of my last experience attempting no-till. If you plan on recycling your soil, 33% compost should be just fine. However, if you're planning on having a 1+ year long no-till bed I'm starting to think you pretty much only want 10-20% compost/EWC in the mix, this way you account for the fact that your peat moss/amendments decomposing and further contributing to the compost/EWC percentage. Over time you'll be left with nothing but compost and your aeration, and it will be time to mix a new batch of soil. Next time I run no-till, I will for sure only use 10-15% ewc/compost and simply top dress with more every month to keep things going.

The more I experiment with organics the more I understand when the experts say less is more. It's funny how people refer to soil as "cooking" it because much like cooking, it's a lot easier to add more than to take it out if you add too much. Too much could cause you to have to start all over again, but too little just means you have to add a little more until it's just right.

Hope you're able to resolve things my man.
 
G

Grower899

Well-Known Member
Richard Drysift said:
Maybe you should've flowered in a bigger container. That looks kinda small for the plant size. I find it better to transplant to the largest possible pot in the week just before flipping. The roots need room and space for a healthy soil food web to become established.
Another cool trick is to use spikes and/or layers; I like using jobes organic spikes which are slow release and will feed for 8 weeks. Perfect for a cannabis bloom cycle. I don't do it as much anymore because my mix has become so rich but I used to add a high N layer in the bottom of every final size bloom container. I add some rol soil and mix in cow and chicken manure. Then a thin layer of more recycled soil and then sprinkle in some crushed oyster shell to regulate the ph drop and then a bit more soil and granular myco. The root ball transplant goes directly on top of that and is filled in. Some growers here don't like the idea of spikes and layers but they can help keep plants green if your mix is not yet supernaturally active.
It takes awhile, in my case it was 6 months+, for the mix to become active enough to keep them green all the way to harvest. You need to recycle it a few times before it really begins to work. And always add in more compost either solid or AACT form. Just amending the soil once isn't enough to reach supernatural status.
Click to expand...
I've thought maybe it was container size as well. It's in a 3 gal atm. Alothough i dont think said plant is that large, less than 2 ft tall and about the same width. However ive considered it as my problem before, so idk. I flowered the plants the clone came from in a 5 gal and they had the same problem only not as severe. Don't have room for much more than 5 gals.

I've only recycled about 10 gallons back into he original mix which is about 20 gal. Also, I'm pretty sure it was your thread where I saw to use the moves spikes. I almost picked some up once but figured I'd see how things go before adding something else. I may pick some up.
 
MistaRasta

MistaRasta

Well-Known Member
Grower899 said:
What's up guys, I made an organic mix about 4 months ago, said mix consists of:

33% perlite
33% ewc/compost
33% peat

Amendments were

6 cups azomite, 2 cups lime. 1 cup tomato tone, 1 cup alfalfa meal, 1 cup bat guano, 2 cups kelp meal. Shoulda left the guano out and used basalt instead of azomite but whateves.

So I've used the mix since 30 days after I made it, and it will grow in veg fantastic, however a couple weeks into flower the plant just starts to cannabilize itself. Leaves die from the bottom up, turning yellow and then dying. At first I thought I had a N def, so I added a little fish emulsion, i couldn't really tell a difference.

Then I thought maybe I was over watering, so I left them alone for a while, after watering only every 5 days or so I didn't notice any improvement, and started noticing it usually worsens the day after I water. Maybe my soil doesn't have enough aeration and is compacting over time?

2 purple trainwrecks acted this way, along with a gdp and a ptw clone, in that order. The clone has by far suffered the worst, the plants grow and finish but never to potential. Here's a pic of the clone. That was a couple weeks ago, at this point the entire plant is as yellow as the leaves in the middle. Not sure what's wrong here, about to just stick to coco =/.
View attachment 4012993
Click to expand...

6 cups of azomite= A LOT of aluminum

Your plant looks like it needs some Calcium.
 
G

Grower899

Well-Known Member
kratos015 said:
"Maybe my soil doesn't have enough aeration and is compacting over time"

I had this same issue pop up myself, my yields in 2g pots were pretty great where as my yields in my 25g pots suffered. The reason is because I had them directly on the ground and the pots weren't allowed to properly drain themselves or breathe on the bottom. Right away I see they're sitting on dishes, try propping them up on something (bricks, wood, anything really) so that the water can flow out. With organic soil, much like a compost pile, we want things moist like a sponge but not soaked. The reason for this is because your roots and microbes can actually drown if this happens, furthermore this can create anaerobic conditions in the constantly damp part of the medium resulting in an unbalanced and acidic soil. This is also why deficiencies will begin to pop up, because the damp conditions of the soil will make for a more acidic medium, resulting in lock outs.

Furthermore, the reason these issues occur in early-mid flower is because that is usually when the plants get rootbound and the medium being able to properly drain becomes even more crucial. The other thing to consider about the fabric pots is that you want them propped up on something ideally so that the roots on that part of the pot can breathe too. I'm thinking that if you prop the pots on something, wait for the girls to dry out a little, then water to 5-10% runoff you should be fine after that if you keep it up.

The other thing I have a feeling about is the 33% compost/EWC being perhaps too much. This next time around I'll be going with something like 40% peat/40% aeration/20% compost. Your soil will in fact compact over time because of gravity alone, but there's also something else to consider. We start with 33% of EWC/peat/aeration right? Well, eventually the 33% of peat will slowly decompose over time with the organic amendments in the soil. So pretty much, as time goes on the ratio of peat moss you used will go down where as the ratio of compost/EWC goes up. That's because after things start decomposing the mix becomes something more like 20-30% peat, 33% aeration (will remain constant unless you're using rice hulls), and 37-47% EWC/compost. Then eventually you're left with nothing but compost and aeration.

That's why next time I'll be going with 40% peat/40% perlite/20% EWC/compost and every month or so I'll top dress with the same amendments I always use, then cover it with more compost.

I'm starting to think that the longer you anticipate keeping your no-till going is directly proportional to the amount of compost you should have in your mix. I'm no horticulturist/botanist/expert by any means, but this is what I'm starting to think based off of my last experience attempting no-till. If you plan on recycling your soil, 33% compost should be just fine. However, if you're planning on having a 1+ year long no-till bed I'm starting to think you pretty much only want 10-20% compost/EWC in the mix, this way you account for the fact that your peat moss/amendments decomposing and further contributing to the compost/EWC percentage. Over time you'll be left with nothing but compost and your aeration, and it will be time to mix a new batch of soil. Next time I run no-till, I will for sure only use 10-15% ewc/compost and simply top dress with more every month to keep things going.

The more I experiment with organics the more I understand when the experts say less is more. It's funny how people refer to soil as "cooking" it because much like cooking, it's a lot easier to add more than to take it out if you add too much. Too much could cause you to have to start all over again, but too little just means you have to add a little more until it's just right.

Hope you're able to resolve things my man.
Click to expand...
Yeah I think I def added to much compost, or not enough perlite. Probably a little of both.

I used to have my pots off of the floor, but i was only running 2 plants at the time and didn't need the entire floor space. At this point I just gotta make myself something that'll fit the whole bottom and I'll have them up off the floor once again.
 
G

Grower899

Well-Known Member
MistaRasta said:
6 cups of azomite= A LOT of aluminum

Your plant looks like it needs some Calcium.
Click to expand...
Yeah when I was first making the mix I was following a beginners mix off of another site and they were recommending 8 cups for my app, but I went with 6. That may be the issue honestly I'm not sure. I'm not sure that I have any significant sources of ca in my mix.
 
kratos015

kratos015

Well-Known Member
Grower899 said:
Yeah when I was first making the mix I was following a beginners mix off of another site and they were recommending 8 cups for my app, but I went with 6. That may be the issue honestly I'm not sure. I'm not sure that I have any significant sources of ca in my mix.
Click to expand...
Look into Crab or Crustacean Meal, both are very high in calcium and also have great NPK ratios. Both are sold by Neptune's Harvest and are great products. The Crab Meal has an NPK of 2-4-1 I believe and loads of Calcium, the Crustacean Meal has a 5-3-1 NPK with a similar amount of Calcium. Both also provide you with the benefits of chitin, providing you with integrated pest management. I didn't have a single pest in my garden this year, and I have a GRIP of moths this time of year. I mean an absolute shit load of moths, like you wouldn't even believe. Didn't have one single moth, caterpillar, gnat, etc and I give all the credit to the Crab/Neem meal in my soil.

Dolomite Lime is a pretty significant source of Calcium, however the availability of it depends entirely on the consistency of the lime. Unfortunately, since most lime is in pelleted form (at least in my experience) it will take a while for it to decompose and provide calcium to your mix. Next time around, look into substituting the Lime with Oyster Shell Flour. OSF is high in calcium and also acts as a pH buffer just like Lime does, however it's in a powdered/flour form so it will be more readily available than lime will be. I've been using OSF for my pH buffer for the last handful of grows and will NEVER go back to Lime.

The reason people would use Azomite is because of the mineral content of it, however Wetdog (well known organics member on this forum) says that Kelp Meal is capable of providing all of the minerals to your soil that you could possibly need. However, if you still want to add minerals to your mix there are more affordable and simple options than Azomite. You can find bags of Gypsum at your local Lowes or even Home Depot, and Basalt is also amazing stuff but can be more expensive than Azomite depending on where you source it.

I don't know how true this is, because the person that told me this never actually cited a source. But that being said I've heard that Azomite contains an astonishing amount of fluoride within in as well as aluminum as Rasta pointed out.

All that being said, please don't let any of the above scare you into thinking you're doomed or anything silly like that. Just get those pots propped up so they can breathe/drain properly and you should be just fine after that.

Worst case scenario is the lime isn't decomposing fast enough to buffer your pH and/or provide you with appropriate levels of Calcium. Perhaps look into grabbing yourself a bag of OSF and top dressing with that after you prop the pots up. Then with every watering the OSF will incorporate itself into the soil, buffering your pH and providing you with the much needed calcium.

Living organics can be a pretty big learning curve, especially if you come from a hydroponics background. But so long as you never give up and stick with it you WILL get it eventually, I'm quite confident in that. If in doubt, always ask questions. If you ask me, the only stupid question is the one you don't ask. And if anyone makes you feel stupid for asking a question, they obviously have self-image problems of some sort. This forum was designed to help others out, not wave our dicks around :p
 
MistaRasta

MistaRasta

Well-Known Member
kratos015 said:
Look into Crab or Crustacean Meal, both are very high in calcium and also have great NPK ratios. Both are sold by Neptune's Harvest and are great products. The Crab Meal has an NPK of 2-4-1 I believe and loads of Calcium, the Crustacean Meal has a 5-3-1 NPK with a similar amount of Calcium. Both also provide you with the benefits of chitin, providing you with integrated pest management. I didn't have a single pest in my garden this year, and I have a GRIP of moths this time of year. I mean an absolute shit load of moths, like you wouldn't even believe. Didn't have one single moth, caterpillar, gnat, etc and I give all the credit to the Crab/Neem meal in my soil.
Click to expand...
Sadly the Calcium source found in Crab shell is in Carbonate form so you're not going to be seeing those Ca++ ions for a long time.

The whole Chitin thing is just here-say IMHO to sell certain products..ever since I started balancing soil (somewhat) to albrecht ratios I haven't had a pest problem and I don't use insect frass,crab shell, etc..

bugs don't have a pancreas to digest sugars, get your plants cells filled up with complex carbohydrates and bugs will know not to fuck around..

that being said, I'm sure Chitin helps to a degree, I just personally haven't seen a change using products that contain it..

Balance is the key.
Using overt amounts of neem and Kelp will only serve to help in the short term. Tbh, neem made my fungus gnat populations worst when I applied it at coots recommended rate.

:wall:

But again, this was my experience.
 
G

Grower899

Well-Known Member
kratos015 said:
Look into Crab or Crustacean Meal, both are very high in calcium and also have great NPK ratios. Both are sold by Neptune's Harvest and are great products. The Crab Meal has an NPK of 2-4-1 I believe and loads of Calcium, the Crustacean Meal has a 5-3-1 NPK with a similar amount of Calcium. Both also provide you with the benefits of chitin, providing you with integrated pest management. I didn't have a single pest in my garden this year, and I have a GRIP of moths this time of year. I mean an absolute shit load of moths, like you wouldn't even believe. Didn't have one single moth, caterpillar, gnat, etc and I give all the credit to the Crab/Neem meal in my soil.

Dolomite Lime is a pretty significant source of Calcium, however the availability of it depends entirely on the consistency of the lime. Unfortunately, since most lime is in pelleted form (at least in my experience) it will take a while for it to decompose and provide calcium to your mix. Next time around, look into substituting the Lime with Oyster Shell Flour. OSF is high in calcium and also acts as a pH buffer just like Lime does, however it's in a powdered/flour form so it will be more readily available than lime will be. I've been using OSF for my pH buffer for the last handful of grows and will NEVER go back to Lime.

The reason people would use Azomite is because of the mineral content of it, however Wetdog (well known organics member on this forum) says that Kelp Meal is capable of providing all of the minerals to your soil that you could possibly need. However, if you still want to add minerals to your mix there are more affordable and simple options than Azomite. You can find bags of Gypsum at your local Lowes or even Home Depot, and Basalt is also amazing stuff but can be more expensive than Azomite depending on where you source it.

I don't know how true this is, because the person that told me this never actually cited a source. But that being said I've heard that Azomite contains an astonishing amount of fluoride within in as well as aluminum as Rasta pointed out.

All that being said, please don't let any of the above scare you into thinking you're doomed or anything silly like that. Just get those pots propped up so they can breathe/drain properly and you should be just fine after that.

Worst case scenario is the lime isn't decomposing fast enough to buffer your pH and/or provide you with appropriate levels of Calcium. Perhaps look into grabbing yourself a bag of OSF and top dressing with that after you prop the pots up. Then with every watering the OSF will incorporate itself into the soil, buffering your pH and providing you with the much needed calcium.

Living organics can be a pretty big learning curve, especially if you come from a hydroponics background. But so long as you never give up and stick with it you WILL get it eventually, I'm quite confident in that. If in doubt, always ask questions. If you ask me, the only stupid question is the one you don't ask. And if anyone makes you feel stupid for asking a question, they obviously have self-image problems of some sort. This forum was designed to help others out, not wave our dicks around :p
Click to expand...
Ok, I've expanded my amendment list a bit since I first made my mix. Picked up blood meal (due to at the time I had an N def), langbeinite, crab meal, and gypsum.

When I recycled my 2 purple trainwrecks on 8-14 I added their 10 gals of soil back to my remaining bit, maybe 3 gals. I reamended with 1 cup of the following mix, 1 cup of kelp, tomatoe tone, alfalfa meal, .5 cups of langbeinite, and blood meal. No extra guano or gypsum because I didn't have at it at the time. Still haven't added the gypsum at this point. I wanted to keep it simple with fewer amendments, but problems make you buy more shit, lol. Also added 1 cup lime and "fresh" bagged ewc. I also started my own compost bin as well! Should be done in a month or 2. Pretty excited about that. Think that'll help as well no more bagged composts/ewc.

At this point I wanna add the gypsum, not sure how much maybe half a cup. And prolly 20-30% more perlite at least. Thought about picking up a bag of oyster shell flour but idk if i want another bag, or if necessary with the crab meal/gypsum/lime.

Def gonna get something in there to get the plants off of the floor this weekend, been meaning to do it for a while. Gotta figure out how to get the water dishes out while also using as much floor space as I can. Might just get some different sized plant stands.

Thanks for the help and input thus far. Gonna hope the added ca and extra perlite help out. Just put one in flower but I don't think I added any extra perlite to it's container. I've got one I know I put the extra perlite in its container gonna flower in a couple weeks maybe 3, so i guess I'll see what happens with that one.
 
Last edited:
W

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
kratos015 said:
Look into Crab or Crustacean Meal, both are very high in calcium and also have great NPK ratios. Both are sold by Neptune's Harvest and are great products. The Crab Meal has an NPK of 2-4-1 I believe and loads of Calcium, the Crustacean Meal has a 5-3-1 NPK with a similar amount of Calcium. Both also provide you with the benefits of chitin, providing you with integrated pest management. I didn't have a single pest in my garden this year, and I have a GRIP of moths this time of year. I mean an absolute shit load of moths, like you wouldn't even believe. Didn't have one single moth, caterpillar, gnat, etc and I give all the credit to the Crab/Neem meal in my soil.

Dolomite Lime is a pretty significant source of Calcium, however the availability of it depends entirely on the consistency of the lime. Unfortunately, since most lime is in pelleted form (at least in my experience) it will take a while for it to decompose and provide calcium to your mix. Next time around, look into substituting the Lime with Oyster Shell Flour. OSF is high in calcium and also acts as a pH buffer just like Lime does, however it's in a powdered/flour form so it will be more readily available than lime will be. I've been using OSF for my pH buffer for the last handful of grows and will NEVER go back to Lime.

The reason people would use Azomite is because of the mineral content of it, however Wetdog (well known organics member on this forum) says that Kelp Meal is capable of providing all of the minerals to your soil that you could possibly need. However, if you still want to add minerals to your mix there are more affordable and simple options than Azomite. You can find bags of Gypsum at your local Lowes or even Home Depot, and Basalt is also amazing stuff but can be more expensive than Azomite depending on where you source it.

I don't know how true this is, because the person that told me this never actually cited a source. But that being said I've heard that Azomite contains an astonishing amount of fluoride within in as well as aluminum as Rasta pointed out.

All that being said, please don't let any of the above scare you into thinking you're doomed or anything silly like that. Just get those pots propped up so they can breathe/drain properly and you should be just fine after that.

Worst case scenario is the lime isn't decomposing fast enough to buffer your pH and/or provide you with appropriate levels of Calcium. Perhaps look into grabbing yourself a bag of OSF and top dressing with that after you prop the pots up. Then with every watering the OSF will incorporate itself into the soil, buffering your pH and providing you with the much needed calcium.

Living organics can be a pretty big learning curve, especially if you come from a hydroponics background. But so long as you never give up and stick with it you WILL get it eventually, I'm quite confident in that. If in doubt, always ask questions. If you ask me, the only stupid question is the one you don't ask. And if anyone makes you feel stupid for asking a question, they obviously have self-image problems of some sort. This forum was designed to help others out, not wave our dicks around :p
Click to expand...
Just a quick FYI on that 'slow release' pellitized lime that you will never go back to.

The pellitized or 'prilled' lime (and my gypsum to boot), IS powdered/pulverized in a fast dissolving binder, that dissolves, usually with the first watering, releasing the lime..

This is done for easier use in spreaders/application equipment. If you've ever tried to apply pulverized lime or OSF outside with even a slight breeze, it is a godsend.

Easy enough to see for yourself. I've never seen gypsum in just the pulverized form, only pellets and is the same basic process. Take a Tbl or so and drop it into a half glass of water. In an hour or less you will have, brown water, from the dissolved binder and white stuff on the bottom that will be whatever you used for the test, gypsum or lime.

I do use slightly more of the prilled stuff, to account for the binder, it gets measured, but doesn't contribute anything, so, I don't count it.

Unless OSF is a 'on the shelf' item in your area you are chaining yourself to a very expensive item (from shipping cost), that offers no real world benefit to what's available 'up the street'.
 
W

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
MistaRasta said:
Sadly the Calcium source found in Crab shell is in Carbonate form so you're not going to be seeing those Ca++ ions for a long time.

The whole Chitin thing is just here-say IMHO to sell certain products..ever since I started balancing soil (somewhat) to albrecht ratios I haven't had a pest problem and I don't use insect frass,crab shell, etc..

bugs don't have a pancreas to digest sugars, get your plants cells filled up with complex carbohydrates and bugs will know not to fuck around..

that being said, I'm sure Chitin helps to a degree, I just personally haven't seen a change using products that contain it..

Balance is the key.
Using overt amounts of neem and Kelp will only serve to help in the short term. Tbh, neem made my fungus gnat populations worst when I applied it at coots recommended rate.

:wall:

But again, this was my experience.
Click to expand...

My experience also. +1

Btw, raw mushrooms are full of chitin. Collect in the wild, or ask the produce guy just where they dump the produce that has gone bad.

VC containes chitinase (sp?), so again, your worm bin has you covered.

In both cases, free, or nearly so and no shipping expense.
 
kratos015

kratos015

Well-Known Member
Wetdog said:
Just a quick FYI on that 'slow release' pellitized lime that you will never go back to.

The pellitized or 'prilled' lime (and my gypsum to boot), IS powdered/pulverized in a fast dissolving binder, that dissolves, usually with the first watering, releasing the lime..

This is done for easier use in spreaders/application equipment. If you've ever tried to apply pulverized lime or OSF outside with even a slight breeze, it is a godsend.

Easy enough to see for yourself. I've never seen gypsum in just the pulverized form, only pellets and is the same basic process. Take a Tbl or so and drop it into a half glass of water. In an hour or less you will have, brown water, from the dissolved binder and white stuff on the bottom that will be whatever you used for the test, gypsum or lime.

I do use slightly more of the prilled stuff, to account for the binder, it gets measured, but doesn't contribute anything, so, I don't count it.

Unless OSF is a 'on the shelf' item in your area you are chaining yourself to a very expensive item (from shipping cost), that offers no real world benefit to what's available 'up the street'.
Click to expand...
I live out in the middle of nowhere and have pretty much no access to anything unless I get it online. Perhaps I just haven't been buying the right kind of lime, but it just seems like I personally get better results with the OSF over the lime. I live in such a small town that I'd have to drive out 25-30 miles just to have access to Miracle Gro. You'd probably have a good laugh if you knew what I had to spend just to get a lot of these items :p
 
W

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
No, not laughing. Just hate to see people overspend when cheaper alternatives are available.

No Lowes or HD or feed store within a reasonable distance? Ace hardware or WalMart? A free 'ship to store' is usually offered. The local feed store is small, but can get stuff in on his weekly truck that he has no room to keep in stock. Found this out by chatting to him and asking about a particular product.

Organics should not be overly expensive.
 
hillbill

hillbill

Well-Known Member
Big box stores all over the US are clearing out their garden supplies and you can find really deep discounts in organic amendments. It is worth a drive in the fall. I have shelves of meals and other amendments that I got at 33%-50% of retail.
 
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Grower899

Well-Known Member
hillbill said:
Big box stores all over the US are clearing out their garden supplies and you can find really deep discounts in organic amendments. It is worth a drive in the fall. I have shelves of meals and other amendments that I got at 33%-50% of retail.
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Very true. Last week I picked up a big bag of tomatoe tone for 3 bucks. Twice the size of the small bag I paid 11 for at the beginning of the season. Might even be bigger than 2x that small bag.
 
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Grower899

Well-Known Member
Well the purple trainwreck is still growing at least. Hard to believe with no green leaves but hey.

The gdp 1 that has had troubles is about to finish up, next Sunday will be 10 weeks prolly chop it then. Also got a clone from gdp 1, that's bushing up really nicely. Doing excellent in veg, he's the next to go in so I'll see how flower goes for him as well.

Gdp 3 is in the soil about 3 weeks into flower so far and he's looking alright. Still can't remember if I added extra perlite to that pot or not. Gdp 4 will go in soon, I know it has extra perlite so I'll see how it does.
 
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Grower899

Well-Known Member
The purple trainwreck is still massively cannabilizing herself, and gdp 3 started to as well. Hit them with some fish emulsion last night, starting to think I'm just starving them =/

On another note I cut a tester branch from gdp 1 the day of week 8 and it was actually alright. Gonna chop it Sunday which will be 10 weeks. Thinking it sound be pretty good.
 
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Grower899

Well-Known Member
Well gdp 1 was cut and dried it's decent. Not as good as it should be, and piss poor yeild due to wtf ever is going on. Purple trainwreck is still going. Gonna get cut in like a week or so, which will be a few days over 11 weeks. Really started to swell this last week, I'm surprised considering it looks terrible.

Richard Drysift said:
Maybe you should've flowered in a bigger container. That looks kinda small for the plant size. I find it better to transplant to the largest possible pot in the week just before flipping. The roots need room and space for a healthy soil food web to become established.
Another cool trick is to use spikes and/or layers; I like using jobes organic spikes which are slow release and will feed for 8 weeks. Perfect for a cannabis bloom cycle. I don't do it as much anymore because my mix has become so rich but I used to add a high N layer in the bottom of every final size bloom container. I add some rol soil and mix in cow and chicken manure. Then a thin layer of more recycled soil and then sprinkle in some crushed oyster shell to regulate the ph drop and then a bit more soil and granular myco. The root ball transplant goes directly on top of that and is filled in. Some growers here don't like the idea of spikes and layers but they can help keep plants green if your mix is not yet supernaturally active.
It takes awhile, in my case it was 6 months+, for the mix to become active enough to keep them green all the way to harvest. You need to recycle it a few times before it really begins to work. And always add in more compost either solid or AACT form. Just amending the soil once isn't enough to reach supernatural status.
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Picked up a bag of those spikes on sale, gonna try a run with those and see how it goes, but for the time everything in veg has gone back to coco. If this run with the spikes goes well I'll start switching back to organics.
 
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Grower899

Well-Known Member
kratos015 said:
I live out in the middle of nowhere and have pretty much no access to anything unless I get it online. Perhaps I just haven't been buying the right kind of lime, but it just seems like I personally get better results with the OSF over the lime. I live in such a small town that I'd have to drive out 25-30 miles just to have access to Miracle Gro. You'd probably have a good laugh if you knew what I had to spend just to get a lot of these items :p
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I read your post about watering and how it can really effect your soil. Made me really wonder if that's my problem. I really don't think it is, but maybe. I've quit watering them for 5 days until they were bone dry and wilting a little, whichbdidnt help any, and ive ttied waterong more frequently which made things significantly worse. Right now I'm watering about a half a gallon every 3 days.
 
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