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New grower, pre grow w/ lots of question

New guy joe

New guy joe

Member
How is it going, fist time posting so I apologize if I'm not clear in describing what I plan on working with so far.

The area I will be growing in is a portable car garage that zips up completely. It is 10 feet wide, 18 feet long, and 7 feet high at lowest spot, about 10 feet at the highest.

I plan on sectioning off the back end of the tent into two side by side 5x5 areas. One for veg, one for flowers. I will be building wooden frames to support lights , separate both rooms and build doors. I will then be insulating both rooms then using Mylar on top of that.

For lights I would like to use 1000w HPS/mh air cooled hoods w/ ceramic fittings and 6" intakes per room.

Now comes the questions. First off does anything in this initial set up seem off?

Questions concerning ventilation.
1. Would it be wise to run a 6" inline intake through both air cooled vents then out the top or should they have separate inline fans and not connect?

2. If using one intake fan will work for both 1000w lights what cfm will be needed for this?

3. Can I run ducting through the top of both room and have both ducts connect to one carbon scrubber and one inline exhaust fan together? Will 6" be enough or do I need 8"?

Next question is about electrical. The garage is set up with its own breaker box with 220 volts. Will that be enough to run both 1000w lights, fans etc.? I'm not electronically inclined to I would be having a friend with electrician experience setting this up so no need to worry about me burning it all down.

I would like to have 5 plants in both rooms in pots. With the 5x5 space what size pots will I need to be using for full size plants? I will be using soil btw.
Might look into hydro down the road but I would like to get a confident grasp on the more forgiving soil.

As for the lights. What distance is prime real estate from the plants?

Any sort of information is welcome.
Stay high, healthy and happy.
 
taGyo

taGyo

Well-Known Member
Set up sounds good.

Depending on how much ducting you use I would use two separate fans. Between the ducting length and a carbon filter you start to lose CFM. If you're dedicating one fan to suck up the hot air and then push that air through one light and then exhaust you'll be able to combat heat issues better. Get a fan controller. You will need one.
Another problem with using one intake for each fan is you'd still need an intake for each room to circulate the air.
Make sure your fans are PUSHING air into the cool tubes and not PULLING it. Pushing will save you valuable wear-and-tear damage. Pulling will cause un-needed stress. Make sure it pulls through the carbon filter and pushes out to the lights.

If you want to do one fan for exhaust then I would use an 8" fan with a speed controller for that size room. To figure out what CFM you need multiply length x width x height. That is your Cubic Feet. Now multiply that by 1.25. This is the MINIMUM you need, the more the better and a fan controller.
At that point you can then use one 6" to cool your lights. Try to keep the duct work straight and as minimal as possible to avoid air loss. If it dips and twists and curves too much you could end up with water in your duct. It also dramatically reduces air movement.

220 volts is not amps and do you mean 240? 240v will run two 1000k at about 5-8 amps I believe. You can only load a circuit with 80% before you start to become a fire hazard. Also your fans and stuff won't be compatible with 220/240. You will most likely need to add one 120v for the rest of your stuff. A 20-40 amp would suffice. I would go overboard and do 40 amps. I would only run one 1000w on a 15 amp 120v circuit.

How many volts is 20 amps?
  1. Most modern residential circuits are 15 or 20 amps, so we're looking at a max load of either (15A x 120V =) 1800 watts or (20A x 120V =) 2400 watts before the breaker trips.
Now do the math with 20 @ 220v = 20 x 220v = 4400. That's great for your lights but, as mentioned earlier, not everything will be able to run @ 220v. Make sure your ballasts have a 220v plug as well, that will add to your draw but save you money in the long run.
See the difference if it's 15 amps? It's 3300. This is why you need to find this out. IMO with electrical, better be safe then sorry because if a fire goes up and you're asleep and the fire department comes then you're out of plants, out of luck and in jail.

For a 5x5 space go with 5 gallons, better trees. After your first grow you can even go up to 7 gallon if you don't mind moving things around or set up an automatic feeding. The reason I say 5 gallon to start is because there's a lot of info on 5 gallon pots out there, better to run with the herd before starting your own pack, you know what I mean?

Light height varies. Depends on how cold your cool tube is and how close you can stick it without burning your plants. Some people can stick their 1000w 10" away and not get burn, I'd recommend starting at 12-14". On top of actual heat, 1000ws produce a lot of radiant energy, some your plant will absorb and others it will deflect off. Light burn happens when they can't deflect off that extra light and it's just pummeling away at them.

Finally, make sure you read a lot. The biggest thing new growers do is 1) Over-fert, 2)Over-water, 3) Over-think.
I'd recommend smart pots. Bigger roots, bigger trees, more buds.
Be patient.
Let them veg to about 1/2 of their desired length before switching to flower.
Check at least twice a day in the beginning.
Follow proven formulas, understand why they work and THEN diverge off.
Don't let the temperatures get to high.
Don't tell anyone & don't get cocky.
We are your new family.

Good luck.
 
New guy joe

New guy joe

Member
Aww thank you sir, after more ventilation research I am going to attach the carbon filter to the inline fan (400cfm) to my hood then have another smaller inline on the other side of the hood to help exhaust and take that straight out the room. I will have a inline exhaust near the ground feeding cool air. This way I will only need ducting to go out of the room once to reduce possible light coming in.
What sort of filter should I use for the inline fan or is that not necessary ?

Ok sounds like I have enough electricity for the job if it is set up correctly (overkill=safe)
Will I be able to reduce volts if my ballast are not 240 volt plugs by using the 120v circuits?
 
New guy joe

New guy joe

Member
V
taGyo said:
Set up sounds good.

Depending on how much ducting you use I would use two separate fans. Between the ducting length and a carbon filter you start to lose CFM. If you're dedicating one fan to suck up the hot air and then push that air through one light and then exhaust you'll be able to combat heat issues better. Get a fan controller. You will need one.
Another problem with using one intake for each fan is you'd still need an intake for each room to circulate the air.
Make sure your fans are PUSHING air into the cool tubes and not PULLING it. Pushing will save you valuable wear-and-tear damage. Pulling will cause un-needed stress. Make sure it pulls through the carbon filter and pushes out to the lights.

If you want to do one fan for exhaust then I would use an 8" fan with a speed controller for that size room. To figure out what CFM you need multiply length x width x height. That is your Cubic Feet. Now multiply that by 1.25. This is the MINIMUM you need, the more the better and a fan controller.
At that point you can then use one 6" to cool your lights. Try to keep the duct work straight and as minimal as possible to avoid air loss. If it dips and twists and curves too much you could end up with water in your duct. It also dramatically reduces air movement.

220 volts is not amps and do you mean 240? 240v will run two 1000k at about 5-8 amps I believe. You can only load a circuit with 80% before you start to become a fire hazard. Also your fans and stuff won't be compatible with 220/240. You will most likely need to add one 120v for the rest of your stuff. A 20-40 amp would suffice. I would go overboard and do 40 amps. I would only run one 1000w on a 15 amp 120v circuit.

How many volts is 20 amps?
  1. Most modern residential circuits are 15 or 20 amps, so we're looking at a max load of either (15A x 120V =) 1800 watts or (20A x 120V =) 2400 watts before the breaker trips.
Now do the math with 20 @ 220v = 20 x 220v = 4400. That's great for your lights but, as mentioned earlier, not everything will be able to run @ 220v. Make sure your ballasts have a 220v plug as well, that will add to your draw but save you money in the long run.
See the difference if it's 15 amps? It's 3300. This is why you need to find this out. IMO with electrical, better be safe then sorry because if a fire goes up and you're asleep and the fire department comes then you're out of plants, out of luck and in jail.

For a 5x5 space go with 5 gallons, better trees. After your first grow you can even go up to 7 gallon if you don't mind moving things around or set up an automatic feeding. The reason I say 5 gallon to start is because there's a lot of info on 5 gallon pots out there, better to run with the herd before starting your own pack, you know what I mean?

Light height varies. Depends on how cold your cool tube is and how close you can stick it without burning your plants. Some people can stick their 1000w 10" away and not get burn, I'd recommend starting at 12-14". On top of actual heat, 1000ws produce a lot of radiant energy, some your plant will absorb and others it will deflect off. Light burn happens when they can't deflect off that extra light and it's just pummeling away at them.

Finally, make sure you read a lot. The biggest thing new growers do is 1) Over-fert, 2)Over-water, 3) Over-think.
I'd recommend smart pots. Bigger roots, bigger trees, more buds.
Be patient.
Let them veg to about 1/2 of their desired length before switching to flower.
Check at least twice a day in the beginning.
Follow proven formulas, understand why they work and THEN diverge off.
Don't let the temperatures get to high.
Don't tell anyone & don't get cocky.
We are your new family.

Good luck.
Click to expand...
This is all very helpful thank you!
 
taGyo

taGyo

Well-Known Member
Your ballast should be 240v compatible and 120v compatible. If it's 120v then you can ONLY run those two 1000w on that circuit. I wouldn't chance a fire. If it's 240v you have a little wiggle room but your timers need to be 240v and your fans will most likely be 120v. To reduce volts you need your electrician friend to re-wire some of it.

You will most likely only need a carbon filter for your flowering rooms, MOST plants aren't too stinky in veg.

Do the math on your grow space. L X W X H X 1.25 = MINIMUM CFM. I would just set up each room with it's own intake fan through the hood IMO. If you have one 6" fan intaking (One through a carbon filter, your veg room can most likely just intake) through each hood and it's a decent 6" fan then you may not even need intake, just cut some air holes and the negative pressure will do it's thing. I run an 4x8x7 and I don't use an intake, the negative pressure is enough, but I'm also in a grow tent with mesh flaps.

Here's how I would set up the room:

---------------------------------------- X = Carbon Filter, F = Fan, D = Duct, L = Light,
l VEG l FLOWER l 0 = Exhaust.
l x l x l
l f l f l
O ====L=D l D=L========O
l l l
l l l
----------------------------------------

You don't really need an intake for your veg room either but a fan and air flow is necessary and if you're going with a 1000w MH I would cool it. I use T5s for veg because I don't want to cool shit in the veg tent, I just run a wall-mounted fan.
 
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New guy joe

New guy joe

Member
taGyo said:
Your ballast should be 240v compatible and 120v compatible. If it's 120v then you can ONLY run those two 1000w on that circuit. I wouldn't chance a fire. If it's 240v you have a little wiggle room but your timers need to be 240v and your fans will most likely be 120v. To reduce volts you need your electrician friend to re-wire some of it.

You will most likely only need a carbon filter for your flowering rooms, MOST plants aren't too stinky in veg.

Do the math on your grow space. L X W X H X 1.25 = MINIMUM CFM. I would just set up each room with it's own intake fan through the hood IMO. If you have one 6" fan intaking (One through a carbon filter, your veg room can most likely just intake) through each hood and it's a decent 6" fan then you may not even need intake, just cut some air holes and the negative pressure will do it's thing. I run an 4x8x7 and I don't use an intake, the negative pressure is enough, but I'm also in a grow tent with mesh flaps.
Click to expand...
Do you mean set each room with its exhaust fan then I may not need an intake due to negative pressure?

Also I'm still doing price shopping on inline fans and carbon filters. For the 5x5x7 space do you have any links for recommendations?
 
taGyo

taGyo

Well-Known Member
Well your L x W x H x 1.25 is only 218, which is smaller then mine and I use a 6" fan so any 6" fan above 350 would be good.

Yes, your fan is extremely powerful for that area so you should only need an intake. Fan controller is necessary.
 
New guy joe

New guy joe

Member
taGyo said:
Ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR3.TRC1.A0.H0.X6" fan carbon filter.TRS0&_nkw=6" fan carbon filter&_sacat=0

I like the wrapped ones because they're less noisy.
Click to expand...
I found this one I think it will do nicely.
120vand 400 cfm is more than enough.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/321315592483?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=20141212152715&meid=65e9d418b5344a5793e16b51c318d147&pid=100338&rk=8&rkt=29&sd=281465643197&_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726&_mwBanner=1

So I want to make sure you said that I would likely only need the exhaust fan going out with hot air and that I only need vents for cold air to be pulled in through negative pressure?
 
taGyo

taGyo

Well-Known Member
Yes for a 5x5 area with a fan oscillating in it, negative pressure should be enough. That should draw in enough CO2 for five plants.
 
taGyo

taGyo

Well-Known Member
My veg tent is a 5x5x6.5 with no intake and no exhaust, just open flaps and T5s.

My flower is 8x4x6.7 with no intake, 2x 1000w air cooled, a 6" fan, carbon filter and 8 plant rdwc and I'm fine. Only thing I might do is upgrade to 8" but I really don't need it, I'm just an over-doer.
 
New guy joe

New guy joe

Member
Awesome. I will probably be framing out both rooms and then only start with one room first and when I can afford it I will start the second room. With the items im looking to buy it looks like it will only be about 600$ to start each room. Thank you for all the info, I know I will be back with more questions.
 
taGyo

taGyo

Well-Known Member
I'll be waiting.

Lucky you, I spent over 2 grand on my first set up but I went straight to hydro.

- Gyo
 
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