New Beginnings: Tricking out a rough Grow-Room.

About almost two decades ago I built a sixteen square foot organic soil planter bed grow-box in the back end of a twenty foot travel trailer. It was a wonderful time.
As it turned out being in such small quarters and running a 1000 watt HPS required that the incoming air be cold.
when I moved my trailer from about 2500 feet above sea level in California to about 120 feet above sea level to be an hour closer to work, I witnessed climate change directly year after year.
At first it was cold enough in October to run that light. Then October slipped to November and then December. Finally it was late January and things started turning to spring early March. The Grow was not possible for safety reasons.

New Beginnings:

My Mother passed away at 96 and left us kids some money. Enough for me to leave California and buy a house in Illinois where there are great values and low prices. Hence my new beginning.
This place is a real fixer upper but, the one thing the realtor and seller did not show online was that renters had put in a bare-bones grow room. A Grow-Room with a really solid door. Nothing else is as secure in this whole place except the grow room. I'm talking ax resistant door! Funny!
It's rough.
It needs a dedicated electric circuit.
It needs to be a clean room in all senses of the word.

Since this is two decades later for me and it is absolutely a blessing to live here I want to share what I do with you. After all we all will learn as this project goes forward.
It's a lot of fun to contribute to Grow-Sites. These days there is a lot less of a chance the Federal Government will come after you in a Medical use state.
I used to post a lot on three different sites. I am sure there are pictures from yesteryear on a harddrive in a box here but this isn't about yesteryear.

So, with a little effort and much TLC there will be a "Garden-Room" I can share with you all.

I welcome comments. I welcome advice and I will be asking questions of you all from time to time.
I do have general skills however, I don't know everything.
This will be a self paced project.

Enjoy!

Friendly_Grower

Getting Started:

What I will refer to as the "Garden-Room" is actually an enclosed front porch. I may refer to "Grow-Room" meaning the nine by eight foot "secure" room that is walled off from the rest of the enclosed porch. Referencing "Garden-Room" is the whole enclosed front porch in my mind.

Disclaimer: I will be fully complaint with Illinois law on medical grows. I believe the five plant limit is wrong but that is politics for another day.

The Grow-Room is a rough space of about seventy two square feet. The other part of the Garden-Room is a bit bigger then that.

Friendly_Grower

Beginning the Electrical work.

My experience with electrical is limited. I have never wired up a sub-panel before and 220 has been a mystery for me.
I welcome your input!
The goal is to have two 15 amp circuits. I will be running one light and support equipment.

Today I have watched a little YouTube and I think I am beginning to understand that I want to have a sub-panel.
I have a 30 amp dryer circuit and an 30 amp AC circuit already in there.
The AC is not functional at this time but, if it were then I would have to decide if I am running the dryer or AC with the grow-room on but not all three. If I did I expect I would trip the big breaker.
I'm looking at my electrical box that gets the service and I see that there is room for another 30 amp 220 breaker in there. That is good.
I suspect 30 amps will be just fine.

The term for wiring to a sub-panel is Feeder. It will be feeding the sub-panel.

So far these are the two videos I have looked at:

<--- explains 110 and 220 well.

<-- educational video

The basics I have gleaned is I will want to run 8 gauge wire. 8 gauge is rated for 40 amps but I have listened and for continuous duty, like running lights 18 hours a day it is better to go one size larger. 10 gauge is what is rated for 30 amps but continuous duty is anything over three hours. Also the amperage rating is surge amps. Like starting a skill saw. It will pull a lot of amps when the switch is pulled and then settle down on amperage. So, that 30 amp is the max and not continuous duty rated. Best to go one size larger.

I wonder if the 30 amp breakers can take 8 gauge? I don't see anything so far saying no? Do you know?

I think the wire is called 8-3 and that gives me two hots and a neutral plus ground I think.
So, generally speaking I must run wire and attach it with the right fasteners all the way to the Garden-Room. Run it into a sub-panel.
Placement of the sub-panel is 30 inch open space in front of it side to side and 3 feet of open space in front of it.
Once there I would have one hot on one bus and the other hot on the other bus. There will be a neutral so that goes on the neutral bar and naturally there is a ground.
If I understand correctly then I would wire each 110 circuit with it's own hot and both will connect to the neutral. Plus ground too.

Does that sound right?


Friendly_Grower

No clue on your electrical questions other than to say I wold think the 30 amp could take the 8 gauge but sorry to hear about mom and welcome to the midwest. There is an Illinois thread, but it is not very active. Chicagoland or southern illinois?

Xsan said:

No clue on your electrical questions other than to say I wold think the 30 amp could take the 8 gauge but sorry to hear about mom and welcome to the midwest. There is an Illinois thread, but it is not very active. Chicagoland or southern illinois?

Click to expand...

Southern Illinois. A bit of a culture change from Cali.
On Electric. Yeah, I'm learning as I go. Going one size up in this case makes sense safety wise.

Where are you going to hook the neutral in the sub panel? Two hots and a ground is all you need for the sub panel. 8 gauge wire is fine and will fit.

If it were me I’d rather only do it once in case I decided to upgrade something later and use a 50 amp 2 pole breaker and 8 gauge wire to feed the sub panel. Once you start adding ac for the summer and dehumidifier, fans, upgrading to more and bigger lights. Trust me it’s cheaper to buy a bigger gauge wire once than to rip out the 8 gauge and replace with 6 if you didn’t happen to need more. Plus since it’s on your porch if you needed outside outlets or whatever you could run em off that panel.

Apalchen said:

Where are you going to hook the neutral in the sub panel? Two hots and a ground is all you need for the sub panel. 8 gauge wire is fine and will fit.

If it were me I’d rather only do it once in case I decided to upgrade something later and use a 50 amp 2 pole breaker and 8 gauge wire to feed the sub panel. Once you start adding ac for the summer and dehumidifier, fans, upgrading to more and bigger lights. Trust me it’s cheaper to buy a bigger gauge wire once than to rip out the 8 gauge and replace with 6 if you didn’t happen to need more. Plus since it’s on your porch if you needed outside outlets or whatever you could run em off that panel.

Click to expand...

Well uh, now I don't know enough to have a firm opinion. Therefore, I thank you for replying.

I watched a YouTube video and I looked on Google. 8 gauge is rated for 40 amps. Did you mean 6 gauge?

Size & AMP Ratings

NM, TW, & UF WIRE (Copper Conductor)	SE CABLE (Copper Conductor)
12 AWG - 20 AMPS	6 AWG - 65 AMPS
10 AWG - 30 AMPS	4 AWG - 85 AMPS
8 AWG - 40 AMPS	2 AWG - 115 AMPS
6 AWG - 55 AMPS	1 AWG - 130 AMPS

1 more row

Click to expand...

If I run for 50 amps the smallest is 6 and the advice I took from YouTube videos is for continuous duty ( more than 3 hours straight ) suggested going one size larger. 50 amps then would take what?
I'm confused. What is the difference here between NM, TW, & UF WIRE (Copper Conductor) and SE CABLE (Copper Conductor)
Because by the "continuous duty theory" 6 AWG SE Copper looks like it can handle it to me.

I can do 50 amp. I was thinking the wire would be too large for a breaker.
On the needing a neutral. I am learning so I thought the 220 comes in with say 6-3 and there are two hots and a neutral (plus ground).
The Neutral goes to the neutral bar. Then to wire up a 120 plug I have one hot and a Neutral wire on that circuit.
Is that wrong?

Actually I like the 50 amp better.

Friendly_Grower

Update

The Formica sheets are here already. Way cool.

Potting Bench

Check out this cute potting bench. The Garden-Room is looking better.
It is time to transplant out of Solo cups so I will be using it soon.

More on the Electrical.

Wow. I have been watching YouTube Videos and I also talked with people at Home Depot. "Home Depot" Home De Pot.. Hee hee

So I know what the right wire is and it is seriously expensive by the foot.
Not only that but I have to buy all the tools to run it like a seriously long drill bit. Well they call it a flex bit. It is designed to go through walls and floors to drill a hole for the feeder cable. Insulated Gloves, electrical screw drivers.
The smartest electrician so far is

Benjamin Sahlstrom
246K subscribers

He is the Man when it comes to educating about electrical stuff. Not that others are dumb just that Ben has my respect and I subscribed.

What I understand so far:

It is rather straight forward once I had enough reinforcement of concepts from watching YouTube.
I had a basic understanding of AC however, I thought 220 was two phase in my mind.
American 220 is 1 phase. I did not know that. Well 1 phase for residential. Three phase is for larger buildings and places that have high loads.
So for this. A simple 70 Amp sub-panel costs about $18. Add in a 30 Amp breaker for the 220 and two 20 Amp 120 breakers and I can wire up 4 120 outlets and maybe two 220 outlets.
Now what I did not know and I was informed, by a Member here, is that I needed a residual-current device to protect me from electrocution. I totally agree with that. I can see myself being a dumb-ass standing barefoot on wet cement and becoming a ground point.
The thing to do here is to install a combination breaker and residual-current device. This is called a GFCI Breaker by Square D. It will cut off power if it detects an imbalance in what it sends and what it gets back. Most excellent.
So I have all the parts for the sub-panel. I do not have the parts for wiring the Garden-Room outlets yet and I now know what Feeder breaker to buy to send power to the sub panel now.

I believe I can get the measurements of how much wire I need to reach the sub-panel in a couple-three weeks and trust me I do not want to buy one foot more than needed at almost $6 a foot.
I am having work done under the house so I will wait on them to be done before I do my thing.

I will try and post pictures when I do the wiring.
I'm guessing this is interesting to some. However please do your own research and do not take my word or experiences as an education on wiring your own grow-room. Stay alive!


Friendly_Grower

I'm enjoying, thank you for sharing!

Good News.

I found folks that could answer the question "what wire do I run" for the feed.
They said 6-6-6-6 Aluminum SER cable. Okay. Phew I was lost on that one.
I have learned much more so I feel better.
Now on to laying out the actual electrical. This is something I must think about in earnest.
I'm not sure what all I want to accomplish however, recycling the heat out of the Grow-Room into the house is one of the basic ones for me. Why waste the heat? Two for one. Grow plants keep warm.
Does anyone have links to rooms where there are switched venting? Venting that changes with electric "valves."
I am considering three exhausts and two inlets. I know that sounds like stoner engineering and you would be right except I have experienced the winds and the lack of wind here.
I'll want the most pleasant grow environment I can get so the idea of ducting that can be electrically opened or closed is interesting.
I am entertaining these ideas so any links to other setups would be helpful.

Cooling Choice

I have decided to try out a dual hose portable AC.
As I mentioned in the thread https://rollitup.org/t/air-conditioning-in-wall-or-portable.1063687 the coolest (pun intended) choice would be a Mini-Split AC. The better than portable would be a Wall or Window unit. What I am trying to do is stay low-key. So, I will try a dual hose portable with optional heater for "Just in case." My Garden is personal medical so production is right out.
No need to design for year round produce.

Friendly_Grower

ill be watching closely... im certified electrician, but from overseas, so your gauge, 110v and 220v monophase is something i have to wrap my head around, i once did wiring diagram on another forum for american guy but that was 2 years ago... am currently at work so in about 2 hours ill have time to check out your panel needs and think about what i can input...

WOW!

It's an eclectic effort actually.
My latest stump-er is what conduit to use.

I have a 50 Amp GFCI and that 6-6-6-6 Aluminum SER cable is here.
Two 240 V single outlets will be just fine for lights.
I picked up two 120 V AFCI breakers so that seems to be what Code calls for now. All new 120 V circuits must be AFCI'd. Also for garages and such now the feed must be GFCI'd so I am a bit ahead of the curve on that one.
I figure two receptacles from both "legs" in the Grow-Room ( 4 receptacles total ) and a couple receptacles in the Garden-Room. I don't see continuous duty loads in the Garden-Room.

Yeah, I am wondering. This old house has had foam insulation injected in parts and places so no way to phish any wire through those walls.
I figure I will be running conduit on the surface. But what? I guess metal is what I need. I like the grey NM pipe. Any suggestions?
I have a washer and small AC that needs a 20 Amp in the kitchen, I must move a 240 V 30 Amp for a dryer so that needs conduit.
Conduit is what has me stumped now.

From what I have seen I can use the metal conduit and run individual wires. I don't recall what that is called.
I have 10-2 and 12-2 here which I could use but I have not figured out what to do yet.
I'm not sure what to do. I would like to use the wire I already bought but can romex be in a conduit?

I sure want to do a respectable and proper job of it. It is one step at a time. I have a book, YouTube and also belong to self-help sites. Plus RIU.

Friendly_Grower

pahval said:

ill be watching closely... im certified electrician, but from overseas, so your gauge, 110v and 220v monophase is something i have to wrap my head around, i once did wiring diagram on another forum for american guy but that was 2 years ago... am currently at work so in about 2 hours ill have time to check out your panel needs and think about what i can input...

Click to expand...

Yeah, Mono-Phase.
I thought in my mind that 240V was 2 phase. LOL
I guess it is a full wave or something. Split for 120 V and two hots for full wave 240V. Or something like that. Each "leg" or hot is 120 V and between the two it is 220 V.. 220 / 240 it's the same thing. It's all 240 V but people call it 220 because it was called that in the way back I think.

To wire up 220 V I need two hots and a ground.
For 120 V one Hot and a Neutral + Ground
There are things that need a second Neutral wire but nothing in the grow-room I figure.

Friendly_Grower
.

hey mate, sorry i forgot i promised to look into this, i popped my sleeping pills, and am almost done, all i have right now is this video:


which i wanted to see to learn about your system... i think 240v is bi-phase since you use 2 phase (hot) terminals... for all surface wires i usually used hard pvc conduit, they can be installed neatly... i would just check how many wires go to each location and take one that fits them all, its easier and cheaper...

edit: thats not how you do things, i just checked these videos:


i need to see your space and know more about where goes what to know what diameter of conduit, gauge and breakers to install, but rn im so buzzed from my pills, all i can do is say gn and rock on...

pahval said:

hey mate, sorry i forgot i promised to look into this, i popped my sleeping pills, and am almost done, all i have right now is this video:

which i wanted to see to learn about your system... i think 240v is bi-phase since you use 2 phase (hot) terminals... for all surface wires i usually used hard pvc conduit, they can be installed neatly... i would just check how many wires go to each location and take one that fits them all, its easier and cheaper...

edit: thats not how you do things, i just checked these videos:

i need to see your space and know more about where goes what to know what diameter of conduit, gauge and breakers to install, but rn im so buzzed from my pills, all i can do is say gn and rock on...

Click to expand...

On Phases. Nope it's a single phase.
Three Phase is used in large buildings and other constructs like that I understand.
Electric motors can be one or three Phase.

Here is something

For 240V circuits, the potential difference is between two hot wires that are 180° out of phase (see Figure 1). Because we only measure across two wires, both 120V and 240V are referred to as single-phase power. (It's rare to find three-phase AC power in residential situations). Nov 2, 2016

Click to expand...

So that means when one Hot is positive 120 V the other is negative 120 V and the difference between is 240 V. That is still one Phase.

As for my space I already posted pictures at the start of this thread. There is little more done than that.
I'd like to see things go faster but that part of the house isn't top priority.
New Hot Water heater install today then I MUST get the washer and dryer installed.
I need to figure out conduit.
I did see people run Romex under a house then come through the floor to a box with that grey NM PVC.
They didn't run conduit the whole way.
My outlets must be run through the floor and would have to come up inches away from the wall. As I said that wall is blown with Foam so no Phising wire in the wall.
I appreciate you man. It's nice that you are interested. It's just going to be a little slow going. But! Going it is.

So hey you work with 3 Phase in Residential all the time huh!?

Friendly_Grower said:

On Phases. Nope it's a single phase.
Three Phase is used in large buildings and other constructs like that I understand.
Electric motors can be one or three Phase.

Here is something


So that means when one Hot is positive 120 V the other is negative 120 V and the difference between is 240 V. That is still one Phase.

As for my space I already posted pictures at the start of this thread. There is little more done than that.
I'd like to see things go faster but that part of the house isn't top priority.
New Hot Water heater install today then I MUST get the washer and dryer installed.
I need to figure out conduit.
I did see people run Romex under a house then come through the floor to a box with that grey NM PVC.
They didn't run conduit the whole way.
My outlets must be run through the floor and would have to come up inches away from the wall. As I said that wall is blown with Foam so no Phising wire in the wall.
I appreciate you man. It's nice that you are interested. It's just going to be a little slow going. But! Going it is.

So hey you work with 3 Phase in Residential all the time huh!?

Click to expand...

yea, romex trough floor and then pipe on a wall seems like a cool idea, it will save you some buck on pvc pipes... yea, here we have 240v and 3 phase 480v devices like ovens, water heaters etc.

pahval said:

yea, romex trough floor and then pipe on a wall seems like a cool idea, it will save you some buck on pvc pipes... yea, here we have 240v and 3 phase 480v devices like ovens, water heaters etc.

Click to expand...

Is your 240 V single Phase? I think not but is it?
It's interesting to learn about other cultures.