Closet Grow [High Pressure Aeroponic/~600w T5HO/Mini] Gods Gift, Sour D

It's been a while since I've posted on RIU. I have a few random grows under my belt [see sig] this is about my 6th or 7th grow. I've completed harvests using soil, deep water culture, GH Waterfarms, Coco, NFT/low pressure aeroponics (stinkbud's system), and now I am playing around with high pressure aeroponics in my closet. I have both a walk in closet as well as a sliding door closet, and not that much clothes so I decided to make use of the extra closet.

The following is a summary of the system:

Nutrient Delivery:
-Pump @ 80 PSI
-3 Gallon accumulator tank
-Solenoid timer set at 2 seconds on, 4 minutes off
-6x6 ~50 micron mister nozzles (0.159 gallons per minute @ 72 PSI)
-Drain to waste, drain runs on a cyclic timer which periodically empties the waste water to the bathroom)

Nutrient Solution:
- 15-5-14 (GH Maxi Grow) @ 400 PPM
- PH 5.4
- GH Flora Shield @ varying concentrations (eyeball)
- 30% H2O2 @ varying concentrations (eyeball)



Lighting:
[5x]- 54w x 2 PLLs with one MIRO aluminum reflector each. [Total 108W]
[2x]- 24w x 4 T5HOF24 lamps, one IceCap SLR reflector each. [total 96W]
*two of these are not in the system yet


Plant Sites:
[6x] Rubbermaid totes, 24 sites each
[6x24] 2" net pots


Exhaust/Cooling:
- Small evaporative cooler
- Small clip on fans
- Panasonic Whisperline fan (120CFM, 1.0 sone)



I started these plants in a box of coco under a one 96 watt T5HO array.



I am in the process of filling up all these plant sites, so I have been closing them to slowly fill the entire closet.

Here is what the entire closet looks like now. I removed the doors and attached a curtain in front of it.
//big picture

Here are some closeups:






Here is some root porn:



The plants are still recovering right now from a brief dry spell due to my negligence so they aren't looking great. Will post with updates. I will be doing some basic maintenance soon.

Feel free to post questions.

PS, the plants look super beat because I took gratuitous cuttings off them. Those plants provided this:




These should be rooted within a week, then I can veg these for a bit longer then flower. I am thinking of separating the top and bottom into veg and flower zones.

Had some issues with nozzle clogs, some plants were wilting. Fixed it though, nursing these babies back to health.

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Attached is a video of the misters on cycle:
[[video]http://tinypic.com/r/2rwuxdd/7[/video]]Video

I'm watching Got a nice little setup there. Wires everywhere! Those babies will bounce back in no time.

dsmoke1 said:

I'm watching Got a nice little setup there. Wires everywhere! Those babies will bounce back in no time.

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Lol yea, I made almost everything myself so it is not the most well presented. Been meaning to organize all those wires and tie them up some time but you know...

mrcryce said:

Lol yea, I made almost everything myself so it is not the most well presented. Been meaning to organize all those wires and tie them up some time but you know...

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Haha I hear ya

The plants have been through a rough couple of weeks because of random landlord inspections which required an emergency takedown. They are being nursed back to health now though.

I'm about to take an absurd number of cuttings, probably in the 150 range. Lets hope they all root lol.

Pictures follow:
The first picture is a zoomed out picture that shows the overall layout of the setup. The rest are closeups.

woo hoo, the new actinic blues are here. I have swapped out some 55w 3100k bulbs with 55w 50% 420nm blue and 50% 10k bulbs. They look pretty sweet. I have a feeling they will keep me up at night..

what type of pump are you using? I'm suprised those plastic misters take that kind of pressure although I don't know how much you're running. home depot sells a brass mister thats suppose to produce a very fine droplet size, I bought 5 of them and haven't put them to use yet because I've been told even with a little nutrient they're gonna clog and I don't have a high pressure pump..

oh I'm sorry, I overlooked it, its right there....

dbkick said:

what type of pump are you using? I'm suprised those plastic misters take that kind of pressure although I don't know how much you're running. home depot sells a brass mister thats suppose to produce a very fine droplet size, I bought 5 of them and haven't put them to use yet because I've been told even with a little nutrient they're gonna clog and I don't have a high pressure pump..

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The misters I use are acetyl and they have a threaded screw instead of barbs. they also have little mesh filters inside to prevent clogging but I have to clean them anyways because of biofilm build up. I tried to find a picture online but i cant seem to find these nozzles anywhere anymore. (i got them on ebay originally) I don't know about brass misters because I used a piece of brass to weigh down the intake line in the reservoir and it corroded probably from the low PH. If your system is low pressure home depot has other nozzles that are pretty cheap in the gardening section. There are 3gph mister nozzles with 1/4" tubing barbs made by Toro that come in bags of 5-10 and are real cheap. They are very easy to maintain too because the nozzle head screws out from the fitting so you can remove them for cleaning and then screw back on. There is also a digg brand that is even easier to maintain, but i don't believe it can handle the psi I use and it is a huge water hog too. I think they are 5 gph. Regardless of the nozzles you use if your pump is not high enough pressure, (eg, aquarium pump)the mister heads will not put out a fine mist. I think you need at least 40 psi because these things are made to run off the tap.

I also have an inline filter before the pump to ensure that the misters dont clog. I am pretty sure home depot has these as well. They are real cheap and the filter can be cleaned so they last a long time.

mrcryce said:

The misters I use are acetyl and they have a threaded screw instead of barbs. they also have little mesh filters inside to prevent clogging but I have to clean them anyways because of biofilm build up. I tried to find a picture online but i cant seem to find these nozzles anywhere anymore. (i got them on ebay originally) I don't know about brass misters because I used a piece of brass to weigh down the intake line in the reservoir and it corroded probably from the low PH. If your system is low pressure home depot has other nozzles that are pretty cheap in the gardening section. There are 3gph mister nozzles with 1/4" tubing barbs made by Toro that come in bags of 5-10 and are real cheap. They are very easy to maintain too because the nozzle head screws out from the fitting so you can remove them for cleaning and then screw back on. There is also a digg brand that is even easier to maintain, but i don't believe it can handle the psi I use and it is a huge water hog too. I think they are 5 gph. Regardless of the nozzles you use if your pump is not high enough pressure, (eg, aquarium pump)the mister heads will not put out a fine mist. I think you need at least 40 psi because these things are made to run off the tap.

I also have an inline filter before the pump to ensure that the misters dont clog. I am pretty sure home depot has these as well. They are real cheap and the filter can be cleaned so they last a long time.

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Yeah I buy the Digs misters with the valve on them from home depot , they don't seem to clog like most of the other ones home depot sells, I guess I'll just settle for low pressure since its a bit safer.

dbkick said:

Yeah I buy the Digs misters with the valve on them from home depot , they don't seem to clog like most of the other ones home depot sells, I guess I'll just settle for low pressure since its a bit safer.

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Safer as in basic safety or safer for your plants? Oh yea also I forgot to mention I don't recirculate so that helps a lot for clogging.

safer for the plants. There seems to be less forgiveness in a high pressure system like that. The way I do it(although low pressure) even if all the sprayers clog or the pump goes out the plants won't die since roots are still dangling in the water/nutrient.

dbkick said:

safer for the plants. There seems to be less forgiveness in a high pressure system like that. The way I do it(although low pressure) even if all the sprayers clog or the pump goes out the plants won't die since roots are still dangling in the water/nutrient.

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I definitely feel you. I lost one harvest to pump going out (actually the plug got dislodged so it wasn't on) and another harvest to sprayers clogging (biofilm); in each of these incidents the plants were beyond saving in less than a day of lights-on. This was a huge disappointment to me because when I grew in GH waterfarms, I had a clog resulting in one of my drip sites failing, and the plant took over two weeks to die. (I didn't bother checking for problems over the two weeks because there was way too much canopy for me to inspect the Waterfarm.) I also did NFT/low pressure aero, which was able to survive for a few hours when my rez ran out. My favorite so far has been coco though; I grew 16 plants simply in coco pots on timed drippers and did not lose a single one to water/nutrient related issues.

The appeal of aero has been too difficult for me to resist though, especially when I look around on RIU and see other people and their awesome aero grows. The main benefit of high pressure is supposed to be how the water is broken into droplets that are just the right size to be easily absorbed by the roots, so maybe you can think about simply upgrading your system to high pressure without messing with the 'backup' system. I was thinking of actually filling my root chamber containers up about 25% with hydroton balls to buffer against some kind of nozzle failure, but I think I have learned my lesson well enough to where i won't be having nozzle failures any time soon.

Also I have started to run a small amount of calcium hypochlorite in the rez so hopefully from now on it will be completely sterile and prevent anything from growing inside the nozzles and tubing.

so the question wasnt answered.

Hey- good to see another intersted in hpa... The additon on bleach is a good idea for biofilm issues, and keeping out all organics will probably be a good idea too. You can try a finer mesh filter such as 5 microns or so- or even use a 1 micron filter bag to pour your nutes through upon filling your res. Another tip is to use 140 tpi silkscreen suspended in the bottom to keep the roots out of the runoff so they stay dryer. A larger accumulator that could allow days or a week between the pump coming on will provide plenty of safety net against pump failure or power outage. And lastly, eventually you can dial your mist cycle back until there aren't and accumulating drips on the roots and you'll get the hairs (they look too wet and not like hp roots yet)- also at that point you can reduce your ec further. I am only in the building stage of my setup, but this advice comes from all I have read and understand so far about this stuff and learned from others. I am subbed and will enjoy watching your setup...
Cheers!

Phlange said:

so the question wasnt answered.

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oh sorry. I totally forgot. The pump is an aquatec CDP 6800 meant to be used as an RO booster I believe. And for good measure, the accumulator tank has 5 gal capacity.

Trichy Bastard said:

Hey- good to see another intersted in hpa... The additon on bleach is a good idea for biofilm issues, and keeping out all organics will probably be a good idea too. You can try a finer mesh filter such as 5 microns or so- or even use a 1 micron filter bag to pour your nutes through upon filling your res. Another tip is to use 140 tpi silkscreen suspended in the bottom to keep the roots out of the runoff so they stay dryer. A larger accumulator that could allow days or a week between the pump coming on will provide plenty of safety net against pump failure or power outage. And lastly, eventually you can dial your mist cycle back until there aren't and accumulating drips on the roots and you'll get the hairs (they look too wet and not like hp roots yet)- also at that point you can reduce your ec further. I am only in the building stage of my setup, but this advice comes from all I have read and understand so far about this stuff and learned from others. I am subbed and will enjoy watching your setup...
Cheers!

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Thanks for the advice. I don't have any issues with clogging due to salt/mineral build up. I am hoping this hypochlorite treatment is going to work but i am not going to be a happy camper if i have to replace nozzles during flowering. Do you believe that having 100% dry roots is beneficial? There are some aero systems with built in redundancy (such as aeroponic roots up top, dwc roots on bottom), so I figured maybe the benefit of not keeping the roots completely dry in the runoff could serve as aeroponic roots up top, and DWC on the bottom.

I am trying to slowly dial back the mist cycle but I am having issues because not every plant is equally developed, and the weaker ones sometimes die =\

I am thinking of just culling them and only keeping the stronger ones.

mrcryce said:

Thanks for the advice. I don't have any issues with clogging due to salt/mineral build up. I am hoping this hypochlorite treatment is going to work but i am not going to be a happy camper if i have to replace nozzles during flowering. Do you believe that having 100% dry roots is beneficial? There are some aero systems with built in redundancy (such as aeroponic roots up top, dwc roots on bottom), so I figured maybe the benefit of not keeping the roots completely dry in the runoff could serve as aeroponic roots up top, and DWC on the bottom.

I am trying to slowly dial back the mist cycle but I am having issues because not every plant is equally developed, and the weaker ones sometimes die =\

I am thinking of just culling them and only keeping the stronger ones.

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Check out post #336 in my thread https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/437684-true-hp-aero-2011-a.html .

I just posted these from a guy who knew what he was doing. Your question is somewhat loaded, as there is a very long answer to how to get the proper root environment because of all the details even though the concept is simple enough. I actually posted a big response and when looking for that post # in my thread for those root pics I lost the whole thing!

Anyway, I am just getting my system built, and don't have any real life experience yet, but I've done a ton of research and have been getting help from some people who are successfully doing this. Feel free to stop by and use any resources I've linked in my thread, luckily there are some people out there with the right information if you look hard enough.

The answers to your questions are alot more complicated than it would seem. You have to make sure that all the roots are recieving the mist in the first place, then getting the saturation correct is secondary, but very important to the development of the fuzzy roots. If you ever do acheive root hairs, you'll definitely want to lower the ec or they will burn easily. As I said- I'm learning the basic concepts of hpa are so simple, but the minor details are so important, and a whole book could be written on them. The easiest way is to copy a known to work design from someone else, and I mean to the letter. That's pretty much what I'm trying to do. If you lower the wetness of your chamber, the root rot will likely not be an issue in the future, but for now the bleach will hopefully help. Root rot is very hard to cure once it's taken hold in my experience. For now I would just focus on keeping them alive, and you can read and learn how to make changes for the next grow perhaps? You already have most of the parts necessary to do this right, just need some minor adjustments and tuning to get the whole expereience... I wish you luck either way and will watch your thread here, feel free to join in mine if you like too...