1000w Coco Multi-strain Medicinal Grow

t0rn said:

I take that back, just looked up Sensi Bloom A and B, you use 4mL per liter (as recommended on the bottle) of each A and B coming out to a whopping 32mL per gallon. At about 20 bucks per liter each you come to $40 dollars. Compare that to Botanicare's Bloom at $10 per liter.

You use near twice the amount of nutes at 4 times the price making it near 8x more expensive.. I simply cannot justify their prices.

Click to expand...

Yeah, you've got something wrong there... That's not right at all... Check out my break down above... Don't depend on the directions, look at them comparatively, broken down into percentage of elements provided. Much more accurate comparison.

Snow Crash said:

That's funny about the RC cola. I had this feeling that no matter what I picked... Safeway Select, Tab, Pepsi... You'd be saying that.

Click to expand...

No matter what I would have picked the cheaper product to make a point? I don't get that statement, either you were trying to bait me or you seem to know what I like to drink. You're right, it comes down to taste and I LOVE RC.

Snow Crash said:

I think you get my meaning though, you pick your favorite because of how it tastes, not because one company has an advertising budget and another doesn't.

Click to expand...

At 8x the price of other comparable products out there the "taste" better be 8x better than those other products.

I wasn't talking about the budget that AN has to market, I was talking about the way in which they market their products. They strive harder and harder to remove all of the ingredients on the back of their labels and instead fill it in with fantasy claims. Their labeling has got to the point with their new "pH perfect" line that California will not sell the products. They simply do not state what's in it, and lead you to believe that their product will give you amazing results without telling you why or how. That's my biggest issue with them, if they are willing to charge their outrageous prices, they should be able to tell you why you're paying those prices.

Take a look at their Pirhana, VooDoo Juice, and Tarantula.. 3 products that do the same thing at different prices, what's the point?

Snow Crash said:

Yeah, you've got something wrong there... That's not right at all... Check out my break down above... Don't depend on the directions, look at them comparatively, broken down into percentage of elements provided. Much more accurate comparison.

Click to expand...

SO, they charge 8x more AND give you the wrong directions in how to use it? The label clearly states 4mL of each A and B per liter. The only good thing I have to say about AN is that all of their products are used at the same application rates.

I can see where PPM's come into play in a hydroponic setting, but seems overkill in soil or a soil-less medium. I don't want to sit out in my grow room like a mad scientist and play with PPM's. I want to use the product as they say to use it. I've used the Botanicare schedule on the back of their bottle with pretty good results so far, I have one strain that's a lighter feeder.

t0rn said:

SO, they charge 8x more AND give you the wrong directions in how to use it? The label clearly states 4mL of each A and B per liter. The only good thing I have to say about AN is that all of their products are used at the same application rates.

I can see where PPM's come into play in a hydroponic setting, but seems overkill in soil or a soil-less medium. I don't want to sit out in my grow room like a mad scientist and play with PPM's. I want to use the product as they say to use it. I've used the Botanicare schedule on the back of their bottle with pretty good results so far, I have one strain that's a lighter feeder.

Click to expand...

Um... Okay then... They don't charge 8x as much though.

What you are paying for are nutrient salts. They are the same salts in both products. So you pay $9 for 950ml of 2% nitrogen, 1% phosphorus, and 3% potassium. Or you can pay $23 for 2000ml of 3% Nitrogen, 2.2% Phosphorus, and 4.6% Potassium.

Take that down to the bare bones and you pay $0.0095 per milliliter of the weaker strength CNS17.
Or you can get the stronger Sensi A+B at $0.012 per milliliter.

So the difference is that Sensi A+B is 1.25x more expensive to purchase, but you only use 70% of the stuff, so the difference is a wash. Ultimately, you're paying about the same for the salts with either system.

I think you're cool. No need to fix something that isn't broken. Just wanted to change your perception that somehow AN is 8x more expensive. It is a more expensive line, sure, but it's not that bad.

Snow Crash said:

Um... Okay then... They don't charge 8x as much though.

What you are paying for are nutrient salts. They are the same salts in both products. So you pay $9 for 950ml of 2% nitrogen, 1% phosphorus, and 3% potassium. Or you can pay $23 for 2000ml of 3% Nitrogen, 2.2% Phosphorus, and 4.6% Potassium.

Take that down to the bare bones and you pay $0.0095 per milliliter of the weaker strength CNS17.
Or you can get the stronger Sensi A+B at $0.012 per milliliter.

So the difference is that Sensi A+B is 1.25x more expensive to purchase, but you only use 70% of the stuff, so the difference is a wash. Ultimately, you're paying about the same for the salts with either system.

I think you're cool. No need to fix something that isn't broken. Just wanted to change your perception that somehow AN is 8x more expensive. It is a more expensive line, sure, but it's not that bad.

Click to expand...

Depends on if you're a noob and going off the bottle rather than really breaking it down to EC. If you're using what the bottle recommends 16mL of each A and B you have nearly double the amount of stuff that you're adding at double the price for 2 separate products. I'm getting the 8x which is more like 7x the price based on what they list as their dosages.

I do understand however that the AN products should not be used at the recommended 4mL/L and it's more like 2mL/L. Even then though you're spending 4x as much. The shit that kills me is that they're one of the few cannabis specific nute companies. If you were a noob and picked these products up and used them at their recommended dosages you'd probably be in for some shit and stunt you plants.

If you're paying so much, why would they give you misinformation directly on the bottle? The fact is they are revamping their products and labels all of the time, why not fix the thing that actually matters, usage of the product. They instead remove the ingredients and make fantasy claims about yield and resin production. I'm pretty sure it's so expensive because there's magic in there.

t0rn said:

Depends on if you're a noob and going off the bottle rather than really breaking it down to EC. If you're using what the bottle recommends 16mL of each A and B you have nearly double the amount of stuff that you're adding at double the price for 2 separate products. I'm getting the 8x which is more like 7x the price based on what they list as their dosages.

Click to expand...

Oh, okay, yeah, just a different way of thinking about it then I guess.

I never trust the bottle. Since getting an EC/PPM meter I have begun understanding how important watching those levels are. Just a little extra food can add up over time in a soilless system like Coco.

To get an idea of what I'm using check out the thread I started this morning. It lists the levels of all the nutrients I have, or plan on, using for this grow.
https://www.rollitup.org/marijuana-plant-problems/395977-i-have-problem-you-probably.html

t0rn said:

I do understand however that the AN products should not be used at the recommended 4mL/L and it's more like 2mL/L. Even then though you're spending 4x as much. The shit that kills me is that they're one of the few cannabis specific nute companies. If you were a noob and picked these products up and used them at their recommended dosages you'd probably be in for some shit and stunt you plants.

Click to expand...

Definitely not a noob friendly system... But it's possible to over feed with anything when you don't really know what you're doing. It's important to read the nutrient levels on the bottle and make sense of those rather than reading the instructions on the back. I think it's a "better" way of approaching most things in life, really understanding how they work, and not that they work.

I've broken it down already. It is no more or less expensive than CNS17. Not even 4x as expensive. When you look at the amount of stuff you get, how much you use, and what it costs... It's the same.

$23 gets one Liter of A and one Liter of B. So 2 liters total. That's about $11.50 per Liter.
CNS17 is sold by the quart, so about 0.95 Liters is $8.

Since you use less of the A+B than you do of the CNS, that ~$3.50 difference per liter makes sense.

Really, seriously, I'm not trying to mislead you here. Pound for Pound AN isn't any more expensive for the Basic stuff.

Where the costs come in is when you start running all the additives. That's when the price from one system to another really changes. Personally, I like Canna nutrients, as I agree with you that running the entire line from AN is just too damned expensive. Maybe when I'm balling and money means nothing to me I'll run it... Or maybe if someone shows me some seriously convincing proof. But like you, I'm not about to jump on any AN band wagon.

I was taking a peek at that thread you started a couple hours ago, I'll be bumping it up later.

AN's products broken down:
[youtube]9fm0Gh26dNM[/youtube]

AN's B-52:
[youtube]kkEw04Kvct0[/youtube]

Kushie Kush:
[youtube]wXbAU840a6o[/youtube]

Budfactor-X:
[youtube]80Wjm1j5qfw[/youtube]

Rhino-Skin:
[youtube]yAb4HKO4t08[/youtube]

Voodoo Juice:
[youtube]3RG5T3avlsg[/youtube]

Take a look at these videos, he is biased, but only based off the fact that AN is a whore.

t0rn said:

I do understand however that the AN products should not be used at the recommended 4mL/L and it's more like 2mL/L. Even then though you're spending 4x as much. The shit that kills me is that they're one of the few cannabis specific nute companies. If you were a noob and picked these products up and used them at their recommended dosages you'd probably be in for some shit and stunt you plants.

If you're paying so much, why would they give you misinformation directly on the bottle? The fact is they are revamping their products and labels all of the time, why not fix the thing that actually matters, usage of the product. They instead remove the ingredients and make fantasy claims about yield and resin production. I'm pretty sure it's so expensive because there's magic in there.

Click to expand...

hey t0rn - if you're a newbie like me, and you bought Sensi A/B for veb... and your RIU family warned you about going full strenght - then you'd be like me at 38 days into veg, and only at HALF strength on the A/B. And you will straight up burn your ladies at full strenght AN if you're not careful (depending on the strain of course)
Peace.

I <3 magic! I was informed about the General Hydroponics 3part that works pretty well. And as for some AN Nutrients, Budcandy is supposed to be pretty sexy, and the Kushie Kush pairs with it well. This is is all what i was told from the guy who's using those specifically now, and the other few he pointed out he tried with not as great success. Even tho Bontanicare is working great for me with easy feed schedules and measurements, I would like to dabble into other nutrient lines and see how they work. Of course, do a little research on doseage with all these goof ups on the labels, ive been hearing about.

Hmk, surprised you never heard of the GH 3 part system, that's the lucas formula summed up; KISS method.

Budcandy (AN) is a pretty good deal, it's the same as Botanicare's Sweet and most other companies make a similar product. Budcandy actually comes out to being cheaper than Sweet, Kushie Kush on the other hand I'd really do my research on, seems like smoke and mirrors.

Good news~

Two more clones have rooted, one Panchota that was taken on 12/16 (13 days to root) and the last Kryptonite clone that was in the dome. The Kryptonite was the top of the plant when I did its initial topping and I want to say that it's been almost a month that it's been in the dome, never gave up on it.

On Friday, which marks 2 weeks of flowering for the original plants, I'm placing 3 more Hogs into the flowering room to start my perpetual.

t0rn said:

Good news~

Two more clones have rooted, one Panchota that was taken on 12/16 (13 days to root) and the last Kryptonite clone that was in the dome. The Kryptonite was the top of the plant when I did its initial topping and I want to say that it's been almost a month that it's been in the dome, never gave up on it.

On Friday, which marks 2 weeks of flowering for the original plants, I'm placing 3 more Hogs into the flowering room to start my perpetual.

Click to expand...

congrats on your clones t0rn.... so give us some updated pics.

Kiki007 said:

congrats on your clones t0rn.... so give us some updated pics.

Click to expand...

Pics from 2 days ago are on page 24

Keep in mind I still don't have any cloning gel :/ Seems to be working ok for me though, with that one rooting I'm at an 80% rate so far. Haven't really lost the last one and my hopes were dwindling on the last 2 that I took the first time, but the Kryptonite top rooted and I'm still waiting on the Romulan top. I hear tops take longer to root..

Gh 3 part nutes Are great and well priced I'm not into the Lucas formula using the gh 3 part because it's a 3 part fertilizer why be cheap and only use 2 Ed rosenthal stands behind the gh nutes and so do I they work great in coco too

Deerhunter617 said:

Gh 3 part nutes Are great and well priced I'm not into the Lucas formula using the gh 3 part because it's a 3 part fertilizer why be cheap and only use 2 Ed rosenthal stands behind the gh nutes and so do I they work great in coco too

Click to expand...

My buddy was at the hydro shop yesterday and he said that GH now has a 2 part series, new and improved I guess. They probably noticed everyone just picking up the 2 part and leaving out the third.

Good news again, the 2nd and final Panchota clone is rooting, 10 days with just a bloom nute soak on the rockwool cubes. Panchotas leaves are all coming in really dark purple now, almost black. The smoke I got the seed out of was mega dank and dark and was one of my best friends favorite smokes.

Still have 3 Romulan and 3 Giesel in the clone dome waiting to root.

Pic with the lights on, magnetic ballast camera killer:


Panchota: 41"


Poison: 36 1/2"


Hog: 31"


Giesel: 27"
Guess my stoned ass didn't send the picture

Romulan: 26 1/2"


Kryptonite: 22 1/2"


3 Hog clones getting flowered tomorrow: 14-15"

I'll get some pictures of the veggers tomorrow, but I got a new strain today, Banana Kush:

Type: Hybrid &#8211; 60% Indica dominant (Sensi Seeds Banana x OG Kush)
Price: $18/gram $50/8th
Appearance: The sample acquired had very loose bud structures, but were sparkling with very shiny trichomes. An above average visual appeal for this Kush strain.
Aroma: Yes, it does really smell like bananas, though the strong kush scent will overpower once crushed or ground.
Taste: That banana taste lingers in your mouth. Very sweet and pleasant.
Effects: This was a classic indica body buzz, focusing its effects in the chest region (some feeling heavy and others feeling expanded or full). The sample provided quick results with some dizzy or light headed effects for the intital 5 -10 minutes.
Duration: Long. 2+ hours