Minimum wage in mathematical terms

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UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
...if your costs go up...the cost of labour...you MUST charge more for your gas, or narrow your profit margin, and lowering your profit margin is the last choice you would make.
see pada. here it is.

it's a theory. a talking point. empty rhetoric. nothing more.

if they had an example of such, they'd be waving it in our faces. but they don't.

counterexamples abound, such as min wage going up 40% from 2006-2009, yet the big mac only went up 15% in the same time, about on par with real inflation (not the official inflation number, which pretty much excludes most of what goes into making a big mac).

let's ask him for some concrete examples in the real world to prove his little theory.
 

Pinworm

Well-Known Member
no. prices rarely go down unless competition drives prices lower.

if you own the only gas station in a 500 mile radius, you can charge whatever you want, until people start going for alternatives like making their own Methyl alcohol, or switching to propane or some other alternative (your only competition)

if another gas station opens up across the street and charges 1/2 what you charge, you will either lower your prices to compete, or go out of business.
if you simply cannot cut your price in half and still maintain a profit, then you close, and the new guy is the only gas staion in 500 miles, and HE can charge whatever he wants.

if your costs go up, whether for the gasoline from your supplier, or your property taxes on the land, or regulatory costs (double walled underground tanks, regular soil testing, whatever), or the cost of labour for your gas station attendants, you MUST charge more for your gas, or narrow your profit margin, and lowering your profit margin is the last choice you would make.

it's the same way Wal Mart forces out their competition.
they come to town, and get a sweetheart deal (usually no city fees or taxes for 5-12 years) and then they sell for less, so much less that the competition (who faces these costs wal-mart is dodging) go under, then wal-mart can charge whatever they like.

their competitors cannot beat wal-mart's low low prices (since wal mart already has the edge by dodging local taxes and fees) so they cannot remain profitable.
Kyne's defends his ideas with Wal-mart's business standards. Did he get a seasonal job as a greeter this year or something this year?
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Kyne's defends his ideas with Wal-mart's business standards. Did he get a seasonal job as a greeter this year or something this year?
if you cringe at his defense of walmart, then be happy you never had to see carthoris.

that dude was way more long winded, nowhere near as intelligent, a million times more racist, and just a way more miserable shit stain of a human being than kynes could ever aspire to be.

carthoris was a dick.
 

Pinworm

Well-Known Member
if you cringe at his defense of walmart, then be happy you never had to see carthoris.

that dude was way more long winded, nowhere near as intelligent, a million times more racist, and just a way more miserable shit stain of a human being than kynes could ever aspire to be.

carthoris was a dick.
Sure sounds like one. More of a dick than Kynes? Tough to believe. But they'res always someone out there who comes harder than the next asshole. Doesn't that just fill your heart with awesomeness?
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Kyne's defends his ideas with Wal-mart's business standards. Did he get a seasonal job as a greeter this year or something this year?
wal mart is a real example of predatory business models with government collusion

this model is firmly established.

you dont even have to look very hard to find examples of the process at work.

competition drives prices lower, lack of competition drives prices higher.

higher costs mean either higher prices or lower profit margins, and when cost is higher than the price you can charge, you have ZERO profit and close the operation.

walmart, due to their massive size can eat the cost of charging less than expenses until the competition folds up, then their prices start going up.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Sure sounds like one. More of a dick than Kynes? Tough to believe, but they'res always someone tougher than the next asshole out there. Doesn't that just fill your heart with awesomeness?
kynes is nowhere near the biggest dick on this board, and he is probably the only intelligent righty that comes to mind offhand.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
no. prices rarely go down unless competition drives prices lower.

if you own the only gas station in a 500 mile radius, you can charge whatever you want, until people start going for alternatives like making their own Methyl alcohol, or switching to propane or some other alternative (your only competition)

if another gas station opens up across the street and charges 1/2 what you charge, you will either lower your prices to compete, or go out of business.
if you simply cannot cut your price in half and still maintain a profit, then you close, and the new guy is the only gas staion in 500 miles, and HE can charge whatever he wants.

if your costs go up, whether for the gasoline from your supplier, or your property taxes on the land, or regulatory costs (double walled underground tanks, regular soil testing, whatever), or the cost of labour for your gas station attendants, you MUST charge more for your gas, or narrow your profit margin, and lowering your profit margin is the last choice you would make.

it's the same way Wal Mart forces out their competition.
they come to town, and get a sweetheart deal (usually no city fees or taxes for 5-12 years) and then they sell for less, so much less that the competition (who faces these costs wal-mart is dodging) go under, then wal-mart can charge whatever they like.

their competitors cannot beat wal-mart's low low prices (since wal mart already has the edge by dodging local taxes and fees) so they cannot remain profitable.
Thanks for explaining it



Annual gross profit in 2012 = $195.95 billion

2.2 million employees


I can see how using the model you outlined it could affect smaller businesses, as their profit margins are much smaller. But what about these giant corporations? Would you support mandating a reasonable working wage for any employer making over a certain amount in profits each year?
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
higher costs mean either higher prices or lower profit margins, and when cost is higher than the price you can charge, you have ZERO profit and close the operation.
do you even have one single example of a business that had to close due to minimum wage going up?
 

Pinworm

Well-Known Member
wal mart is a real example of predatory business models with government collusion

this model is firmly established.

you dont even have to look very hard to find examples of the process at work.

competition drives prices lower, lack of competition drives prices higher.

higher costs mean either higher prices or lower profit margins, and when cost is higher than the price you can charge, you have ZERO profit and close the operation.

walmart, due to their massive size can eat the cost of charging less than expenses until the competition folds up, then their prices start going up.
I bet you're still buying all your tighty-whities, 2% milk, feminine hygiene products, and Xtra-Small condoms from them, aren't you?
 

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
So I've seen this thread up for a bit...and been wondering...........
I went around town...went to mcdonalds and they said they made 8.50 an hr. I went to heb and walmart, walmart paid 10 an hr and heb 8.50..went to jiffy lube and they start at 9. Dishwasher at applebees and at a local college made 8.50.....8.50 seems to be the lowest pay I could find and it went on like this with most jobs about 9
I'm not into politics and don't venture round here..have no real opinion on this matter

Just curious as to who actually makes minimum wage?
I know I've never made minimum wage..or anyone I've ever met

I tried Googling what jobs actually pay minimum wage, but wasn't much help...as every job listed as paying minimum wage payed a decent bit more
 

echelon1k1

New Member
So I've seen this thread up for a bit...and been wondering...........
I went around town...went to mcdonalds and they said they made 8.50 an hr. I went to heb and walmart, walmart paid 10 an hr and heb 8.50..went to jiffy lube and they start at 9. Dishwasher at applebees and at a local college made 8.50.....8.50 seems to be the lowest pay I could find and it went on like this with most jobs about 9
I'm not into politics and don't venture round here..have no real opinion on this matter

Just curious as to who actually makes minimum wage?
I know I've never made minimum wage..or anyone I've ever met

I tried Googling what jobs actually pay minimum wage, but wasn't much help...as every job listed as paying minimum wage payed a decent bit more
Unclebuck has admitted to making less than the annual Californian minimum wage. He makes $7K a year.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
So I've seen this thread up for a bit...and been wondering...........
I went around town...went to mcdonalds and they said they made 8.50 an hr. I went to heb and walmart, walmart paid 10 an hr and heb 8.50..went to jiffy lube and they start at 9. Dishwasher at applebees and at a local college made 8.50.....8.50 seems to be the lowest pay I could find and it went on like this with most jobs about 9
I'm not into politics and don't venture round here..have no real opinion on this matter

Just curious as to who actually makes minimum wage?
I know I've never made minimum wage..or anyone I've ever met

I tried Googling what jobs actually pay minimum wage, but wasn't much help...as every job listed as paying minimum wage payed a decent bit more
clearly you've cracked the secret: MINIMUM WAGE IS A LIE!

http://austin.craigslist.org/

click on jobs, type in "$7.25", and press search.

voila.
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
http://blog.cwpub.com/post/5179859473/big-mac-inflation
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774473.html

1988 min wage: $3.35
2011 min wage: $7.25

216% upness.

1988 big mac: $2.39
2011 big mac: $3.80

159% upness.

in 1988, one hour of labor at minimum wage would buy you 1.4 big macs.
in 2011, one hour of labor at minimum wage would buy you 1.9 big macs.

i will be demanding some pancakes before we proceed any further.
you love the Big mac index because it supports your ideology, but in fact it is the exception to the rule it is designed to have a SMALL margin, and make the profit off volume, and ancillary items which have much higher margins.

it's very nearly what is referred to as a "Loss Leader"

McBurgers doesnt make it's money on burgers, they make it on drinks fries, cookies and shit.

choose a commodity, any commodity, that has no government subsidy or price cap, and youll see the same 3x to 4x increase in cost between 1988 and 2012.

Gold:
1988 ~$450/troy ounce
2013 ~$1600/troy ounce




note that aluminium breaks the trend. theres an exception to every rule

http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

even the bureau of labour statistics shows that since 1988 any amount of us currency is worth HALF what it was then, and the CPI deliberately excludes the things which have gone up the most: Food, Energy, Housing, etc..

what inflation? how about DOUBLE inflation (which coincidentally is about the same rate as the increase in the minimum wage in calif, the most economically important state in the union)

and thats even when the real number is concealed by elimination of those things which are NECESSITIES for life.

you really just believe anything anybody says on Huffpo dont you?
 

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
Well I did.....search your suggestion
Nobody made minimum wage...those that did also made tips ...doesn't count as true minimum wage in my mind but whatevs
Seemed you got a bit upset there buck? Hmmm maybe you really do make that
Well toodles....
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Thanks for explaining it



Annual gross profit in 2012 = $195.95 billion

2.2 million employees


I can see how using the model you outlined it could affect smaller businesses, as their profit margins are much smaller. But what about these giant corporations? Would you support mandating a reasonable working wage for any employer making over a certain amount in profits each year?
if such a law were passed, wal-mart would simply avoid it by making all their stores "independent subsidiaries" or franchises.

on the distribution end wal-mart pays decent wages to their truckers, warehousemen and whatnot. they only really pay shit for the retail end employees because really, thats a job any asshole can do, and theres TONS of assholes looking for a job.
so many that even the mexicans have been going back to mexico, since they come for work, and when the labour market is flooded with people selling, and few buying, they dont have the pricing edge they used to.
 
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