When during the course of our evolution did we gain souls?

[tyler.durden]

If it happens but infrequently, I don't think science is currently equipped to deal with that very well. cn

Strange. Every other known force in reality seems to be extremely consistent. I wonder why this supposed force would have such different properties?

 

[cannabineer]

Strange. Every other known force in reality seems to be extremely consistent. I wonder why this supposed force would have such different properties?

If I were to make a wineglass guess, it would be that it's only dipping into the material, sensually-accessible plane in a somewhat fitful manner. Those other forces are, well, inanimate. I've heard too many stories to be comfily incredulous, and not enough to glean pattern from them. It leaves me ... uncommitted. cn

 

[Beefbisquit]

If I were to make a wineglass guess, it would be that it's only dipping into the material, sensually-accessible plane in a somewhat fitful manner. Those other forces are, well, inanimate. I've heard too many stories to be comfily incredulous, and not enough to glean pattern from them. It leaves me ... uncommitted. cn

If it were just inconsistent, there would still be at least some reliable evidence. I mean, fossils are inconsistent but we still find them from time to time....

 

[Chief Walkin Eagle]

Who said his ability is inconsistent? If you develop a personal connection with my friends then they will be able to receive your thoughts. I have grown stronger mentally since first discovering this and am able to put up a barrier to stop them from receiving my thoughts when I dont want them to. Having someone in your head is fucking terrifying lol but you gotta lose the fear because being scared wont help at all. At first I would think "Get the fuck out of my head man" and things like that and you could see he was very uncomfortable because he didnt want to be receiving those thoughts. Other than losing the fear and becoming more mentally secure, I dont know how I put up that barrier, and its not always up either.

If scientists were to test him, I imagine they would have to find some young dude and get him to have a bromance with my friend lol because there has to be a personal connection, and this young dude can be an atheist too.

 

[Beefbisquit]

Who said his ability is inconsistent? If you develop a personal connection with my friends then they will be able to receive your thoughts. I have grown stronger mentally since first discovering this and am able to put up a barrier to stop them from receiving my thoughts when I dont want them to. Having someone in your head is fucking terrifying lol but you gotta lose the fear because being scared wont help at all. At first I would think "Get the fuck out of my head man" and things like that and you could see he was very uncomfortable because he didnt want to be receiving those thoughts. Other than losing the fear and becoming more mentally secure, I dont know how I put up that barrier, and its not always up either.

If scientists were to test him, I imagine they would have to find some young dude and get him to have a bromance with my friend lol because there has to be a personal connection, and this young dude can be an atheist too.

All they would have to do is take both of the guys and put them in separate areas, and give one of them a piece of paper that had an original idea on it, that had never been seen by anyone. If the other participant could still understand his thoughts, while being segregated, it might be legit. If they couldn't transfer a completely original introduced by someone 'not close' to the,, I'm not sure I'd believe in the ability. Also, It's possible they're using some code to communicate things to each other with their eye movements, or subtle face movements, so it'd be best if they were unable to see each other either.

 

[tyler.durden]

Cheif, just a wild hypothetical (because it's slow on this subforum tonight): what if your telepathic friend and your other buddies admitted to you that they were just fucking with you? He read a couple of books on cold reading, had gotten really good at it, and talked a couple other guys into going along with the act. How do you think you'd handle this revelation? Would it cause you to revise your world view? Would you be happy or depressed to know the truth?

 

[Chief Walkin Eagle]

Cheif, just a wild hypothetical (because it's slow on this subforum tonight): what if your telepathic friend and your other buddies admitted to you that they were just fucking with you? He read a couple of books on cold reading, had gotten really good at it, and talked a couple other guys into going along with the act. How do you think you'd handle this revelation? Would it cause you to revise your world view? Would you be happy or depressed to know the truth?

Like I said, they dont have the smarts to do that kinda stuff. They barely passed high school and Im pretty sure they only ever read books that they were assigned in English class. The one thats OBSESSED with spirituality has read The Necromonicon by Aleister Crowly but thats about it. Maybe "Smarts" is not the right word and Im wrongfully belittling them, but they definitely dont have the determination to do such things. Im a pretty observant guy too, I can read and understand peoples personalities and motives quite well and I always know the result of a situation long before it happens, the crazies would call me an empath I guess lol so they wouldnt be able to pull that kinda trick on me at all. Though I do understand that from your point of view, your explanation is infinitely more plausible than what I say is happening.

 

[tyler.durden]

Like I said, they dont have the smarts to do that kinda stuff. They barely passed high school and Im pretty sure they only ever read books that they were assigned in English class. The one thats OBSESSED with spirituality has read The Necromonicon by Aleister Crowly but thats about it. Maybe "Smarts" is not the right word and Im wrongfully belittling them, but they definitely dont have the determination to do such things. Im a pretty observant guy too, I can read and understand peoples personalities and motives quite well and I always know the result of a situation long before it happens, the crazies would call me an empath I guess lol so they wouldnt be able to pull that kinda trick on me at all. Though I do understand that from your point of view, your explanation is infinitely more plausible than what I say is happening.

Good post, but it didn't answer my questions -

If they successfully pulled that hoax on you -

1. Would it cause you to revise your world view?
2. Would you be happy or depressed to know the truth?

 

[mindphuk]

Like I said, they dont have the smarts to do that kinda stuff. They barely passed high school and Im pretty sure they only ever read books that they were assigned in English class. The one thats OBSESSED with spirituality has read The Necromonicon by Aleister Crowly but thats about it. Maybe "Smarts" is not the right word and Im wrongfully belittling them, but they definitely dont have the determination to do such things. Im a pretty observant guy too, I can read and understand peoples personalities and motives quite well and I always know the result of a situation long before it happens, the crazies would call me an empath I guess lol so they wouldnt be able to pull that kinda trick on me at all. Though I do understand that from your point of view, your explanation is infinitely more plausible than what I say is happening.

I don't think Tyler was making a claim about what is occurring, he was asking a hypothetical about your own reaction. I suspected you were going to respond exactly as you just did. You took his hypothetical situation and acted as if he was questioning you if it was possible. That's not what he was saying AFAICT.

 

[Chief Walkin Eagle]

I don't think Tyler was making a claim about what is occurring, he was asking a hypothetical about your own reaction. I suspected you were going to respond exactly as you just did. You took his hypothetical situation and acted as if he was questioning you if it was possible. That's not what he was saying AFAICT.

Ah shit, you're right. Well if what tyler was saying turned out to be true, I would be VERY pissed off. I'd say this kid is my best friend so for him to do that would be extremely fucked up. I might of hit him for fooling me for over two years and probably not hang out with that group of friends anymore. Though I wouldnt say I was living a lie because even without the tricks, they still changed the way I viewed the world.

 

[Chief Walkin Eagle]

Actually I dont know what I would do. I just know I'd be very, very angry but I dunno if I could still be friends with those guys.

 

[Beefbisquit]

Actually I dont know what I would do. I just know I'd be very, very angry but I dunno if I could still be friends with those guys.

Great honest answers, CWE.

It's hard to imagine how anyone would act after a paradigm shifting event!

It's like when theists ask me 'what if Jesus was real and came back'? I dunno what I'd do... lol Probably ask him how the son of god can suck at communication so badly.... but really? I dunno what I'd do. It would certainly shatter everything I thought I knew about the world.

 

[H R Puff N Stuff]

If humans have always had a soul - does that include fetuses? Is it when the fetus 'grows into a human' that it 'gets a soul'? Does each sperm or egg have a soul? What about one millisecond after conception, when there's just a group of cells? Do they have a soul?

If your answer; 'we always had one' is so easy and intuitive, you should be able to easily answer my questions.

hmm lets see uhh yes,no, yes,what about a millisecond after conception you sound like the kinda person that still gets stumped on wich came first chicken or the egg .its the egg came first. my soul = life spark

 

[Beefbisquit]

hmm lets see uhh yes,no, yes,what about a millisecond after conception you sound like the kinda person that still gets stumped on wich came first chicken or the egg .its the egg came first. my soul = life spark

If humans have souls, there must be an exact definable instant when the cells that create a human, possess the intrinsic properties of a human and get their soul. Either that or all cells have souls, but I'm almost certain it has to be one or the either.

And two non-chickens produced an egg with the first 'true' chicken. So, you're correct!

 

[H R Puff N Stuff]

i guess then what i would need to know is what do you consider a soul based on my definition we always had one and grew as we did. egg has spark sperm has spark they begin to divide to create you. you have the spark before you were you at least according to the way i see it

 

[thepenofareadywriter]

If humans have souls, there must be an exact definable instant when the cells that create a human, possess the intrinsic properties of a human and get their soul. Either that or all cells have souls, but I'm almost certain it has to be one or the either.

And two non-chickens produced an egg with the first 'true' chicken. So, you're correct!

just a thought here; maybe when the cell becomes infused with o2 the cell then becomes a living soul, which then makes me think that the cell before the o2, was always the soul, and the o2 brought it to life...

 

[Chief Walkin Eagle]

Great honest answers, CWE.

It's hard to imagine how anyone would act after a paradigm shifting event!

It's like when theists ask me 'what if Jesus was real and came back'? I dunno what I'd do... lol Probably ask him how the son of god can suck at communication so badly.... but really? I dunno what I'd do. It would certainly shatter everything I thought I knew about the world.

I think if that were to ever happen, a Jesus like figure would come back but the truth he brings would be completely different than what christians think, forcing christians to reject him as if he were the devil or change their christian ways. It would be the Christians who wouldnt know what to do lol.

 

[Beefbisquit]

just a thought here; maybe when the cell becomes infused with o2 the cell then becomes a living soul, which then makes me think that the cell before the o2, was always the soul, and the o2 brought it to life...

But living cells usually create living cells. It's just cell multiplication. The Sperm and Egg contain cells that have biological functions, so you could consider them 'alive' too. If the soul exists, I guess there's one in every living thing, or there's a definable moment when cells become 'human' and get a soul.

I think we'd be hard pressed to find many theists that would say sperm have souls..... if that's the case I've definitely had the EXTREME pleasure of meeting some very hungry soul eaters. I guess bitches really are the devil... hehe

 

[Zaehet Strife]

Right? We are actually made up of billions of atoms, so if we have always had a soul, then every atom in the universe must have a soul, but why would atoms need souls? Where would the soul be? In a special atom? In a cluster? Hmmmm.

I wonder when the idea of a soul was first thought.

 

[eye exaggerate]

Right? We are actually made up of billions of atoms, so if we have always had a life, then every atom in the universe must have a life, but why would atoms need lives? Where would the life be? In a special atom? In a cluster? Hmmmm.

I wonder when the idea of a life was first thought.

...just wanted to try out my idea, sorry man!