kpmarine
Well-Known Member
So a malevolent being cannot pose as a benevolent one?
When during the course of our evolution did we gain souls?
- Thread starter Beefbisquit
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Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
If humans have always had a soul - does that include fetuses? Is it when the fetus 'grows into a human' that it 'gets a soul'? Does each sperm or egg have a soul? What about one millisecond after conception, when there's just a group of cells? Do they have a soul?
If your answer; 'we always had one' is so easy and intuitive, you should be able to easily answer my questions.
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
It might not be possible to know if souls exist.
But based on what we know about things that do exist; e.g. they have definable properties, we currently have no reason to believe that souls do exist. Possible? Yes. Likely? No.
So, there you go CWE - it's possible for souls to exist, and it's possible for them to be undetectable. But based on our current understanding of the world, and universe, it's highly unlikely. Maybe someone will develop a 'soul test', and maybe someone will discover 'soul particles', but until that happens, the most rational position to hold, is that they most likely do not exist. If the soul exists, but doesn't interact with reality, then who cares anyways?
The default position is non-belief until belief is justified; but, please understand that non-belief is not the same as denying something.
Chief Walkin Eagle
Well-Known Member
Of course it has some properties, but do those properties have to be physical in order to interact with reality? DNA has been shown to have telepathic properties (Non-physical connection or communication) that cant be explained with magnitism. I can talk about my consistent, reality defying experiences all day but you havent experienced the same so it means nothing to you. You just have my word that my experiences differ from things like religion, and Im ok with that. Based on what you know and experienced, souls probably dont exist, in your opinion. Based on what I know and experienced, I know souls exists and it would be silly to deny that they do. Thats if a demon fairy isnt whispering evil lies into my metaphysical ear in order to lead me to the dark side... Lol
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Gonna need a source on that one...
Zaehet Strife
Well-Known Member
Alright Chief, i have a couple of easy questions for you. (Although i can predict you will avoid answering them)
1. Do you know with certainty whether or not this reality is a dream or not? If so, please explain.
2. Do you know with certainty whether or not the god you worship is not actually the devil in disguise? If so, please explain.
Please do not redirect the questions, please do not avoid answering the questions, and please answer them as simply and as honestly as you can.
If you would be so kind as to use proper format like so;
Answer #1:
Answer #2:
Fallowed by the answers to the questions, it would be very much appreciated.
Please do not attempt to redirect, ignore or change the subject.
Also i agree with Pad
1. Do you know with certainty whether or not this reality is a dream or not? If so, please explain.
2. Do you know with certainty whether or not the god you worship is not actually the devil in disguise? If so, please explain.
Please do not redirect the questions, please do not avoid answering the questions, and please answer them as simply and as honestly as you can.
If you would be so kind as to use proper format like so;
Answer #1:
Answer #2:
Fallowed by the answers to the questions, it would be very much appreciated.
Please do not attempt to redirect, ignore or change the subject.
Also i agree with Pad
and we will definitely need a source to confirm whether or not you are spouting some more made up bull shit, or if there is actually any scientific evidence for your claims.
Chief Walkin Eagle
Well-Known Member
Answer #1. This very well may be a dream that I would wake up from, or it could be a dream of a god. My question to you is, why would that make things any less real? Its all we're able to experience atm so I say take what we can get from it.
Answer #2. I dont worship any god. Perhaps the universe existed forever and souls and gods somehow came to be through natural means and that gods started where we are at today and evolved. In other words I think a lot of us, atheists included, are gods in training, and I dont think any of us are the devil lol. I think I know where your getting at though. Its kinda like the evil fairy demon argument, right? Though this question is less silly than that, its still hard to take seriously...
Heres the link for what I said. Now I dont think this telepathic quality operates by some undetectable magic cloud, I think its something science will eventually deem natural, just as I think science will catch up to souls and eventually deem them natural as well, though less spiritual stuff with the telepathic DNA of course.
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/02/dna-found-to-ha.html
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
I'd like to hear about your experiences. If they're legit, it would be incredibly groundbreaking.
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
Yes. Reality is physical, and if things are having an affect on reality, they are also physical. Also, if they are interacting with reality in any way, shape, or form; they must also be testable in some way. E.g., if souls exist and affect our consciousness, there has to be a way to measure how it affects our consciousness. Whether the soul causes the chemical reactions, or the soul affects some quantum property that affects us through some other dimension; if it affects reality it must, by default, have at least one physical propertie. If it didn't it would be unable to affect physical things.
People think the brain is this giant mystery, when in fact, it's really quite well documented. We don't have all the answers, but we do have a great foundation of knowledge built about the subject. Most, if not all, neuroscientists don't feel the need to invoke a soul into the equation.
Maybe the experiences you had were real, I don't know, but even if they were, it still doesn't prove you have a soul, only that something unexplainable is happening. I'd really like you to think about that, because that's one of the things that upsets me most about people with a strong sense of spirituality (for better lack of a term). Going from 'unknown event happened' to 'we must have souls', to me, is just berserk. For all you know you have no soul, but we're all latently telepathic, or maybe as Dr. Persinger suggests, the magnetic field on earth 'taps into' our brains, and connects us all, or maybe you were just tripping balls inside your own head. Unless there's some sort of testability, it's impossible to know.
Why can't people just be happy with I don't know? lol
Chief Walkin Eagle
Well-Known Member
Uh oh... I dunno if I wanna do this dance again lol. It was a giant shit show last time I talked about my experiences, I thought for sure that you were around at the time. I gotta put on my plastic garbage bag, because I know shits gunna fly after I post this lol.
Basically I got two friends who are able to read minds once you develop a personal connection to them. They can also do other things. My other friends seemed a bit scared of what was happening but I nearly went insane with astonishment and eagerness to learn. I asked every single question I could think of and I put their capabilities to the test many times in many different ways, always the same result. These guys arent masters of knowledge btw, they are just young adults who make mistakes and do stupid shit and learn just like everybody else, except they are gifted. Im pretty sure Im not being fooled by these guys, neither of them have the smarts to be a mentalist, thats for sure. At the start I used to take in what they said word for word but I eventually realized that they were just learning too and some of the things they were saying were half truths or straight up bullshit.
So I guess you're gunna ask why dont they get a million dollars from that amazing Randi guy, or why dont they go to the university and expose the truth through science. Im guessing the main reason is that they dont want to be lab rats for a LONG period of time and perform for people that think they know reality better than anyone else. They dont really know what direction to go to in life atm and by no means are they morally perfect people, I can easily see a million dollars corrupting their mind and soul. Plus they would be world famous and that would fuck a young mans psyche especially if they too are trying to find their calling in life. And it seems the powers that be dont want any secret truths to be exposed to empower the people, you dont even have to dip into conspiracy theories to know that. Hell, I could be getting put on the no-fly list just for talking about this!
. Religions would be shitting bricks too and saying these guys are the devils army or something like that lol. By no means are these people special either, theres a lot of them around, though I imagine they are more spaced out in the US compared to Canada. My uncle teaches BC First Nations Studies at the university and he introduced me to a couple more gifted people. He does spiritual stuff in his classes a couple times a month and sometimes puts atheists into tears because of what they're experiencing. Why my uncle doesnt get pestered by the scientists at the university, I dont know.
I can tell you every detail about my most amazing experiences if you want, which I'll probably end up doing. God knows you guys hate it when people might actually think theres some truth in what Im saying lol So you'll do your best to steer them away.
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
I don't necessarily think that shared memories are impossible. I certainly don't know for sure, but Dr. Persinger makes some interesting arguments on the subject.
If the ability is real; I cannot, for the life of me, understand why people wouldn't want to show as many people how to use it as possible. The ramifications knowing about an ability like that would have on the world is almost immeasurable. They must be assholes, selfish, selfish, assholes.
If the ability is real; I cannot, for the life of me, understand why people wouldn't want to show as many people how to use it as possible. The ramifications knowing about an ability like that would have on the world is almost immeasurable. They must be assholes, selfish, selfish, assholes.
And exactly what is your motivation for asking when souls evolved if you don't even believe in them.
Could it be to invite argument? It isn't because you give a shit about it. No, you just want people to answer a loaded question so belittle whatever the hell they believe in.
And why would someone do this? I would suggest they have some sort of self esteem issue. No doubt as a result of finding out they wasted $30K on a degree in philosophy.
"Why can't you just be happy with we don't know?" You knew the answer was we don't know when you asked the question. Why do you ask questions when you know the answer?
Now, here is a question for you. Why, given that the mans only claim to fame in philosophy is a horrible abuse of language and logic do philosophers consider Descartes to be founder of modern philosophy?
That would be like a biologist claiming LaMark as the founder of the field.
Perhaps it is fitting that Descartes is considered the father of modern philosophy.
Could it be to invite argument? It isn't because you give a shit about it. No, you just want people to answer a loaded question so belittle whatever the hell they believe in.
And why would someone do this? I would suggest they have some sort of self esteem issue. No doubt as a result of finding out they wasted $30K on a degree in philosophy.
"Why can't you just be happy with we don't know?" You knew the answer was we don't know when you asked the question. Why do you ask questions when you know the answer?
Now, here is a question for you. Why, given that the mans only claim to fame in philosophy is a horrible abuse of language and logic do philosophers consider Descartes to be founder of modern philosophy?
That would be like a biologist claiming LaMark as the founder of the field.
Perhaps it is fitting that Descartes is considered the father of modern philosophy.
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
You are one angry little man. I can't help but laugh at you.
I directed the question to theists, because they're the ones positing that a soul exists. I can't ask myself when the soul pops into humans, because I don't believe it does at any point. I'm willing to listen to the arguments they put forth, and if there happens to be something I disagree with I will mention it. Maybe there's a theist with a refreshing view that I will find interesting and learn from. I won't know unless I ask. Unlike your little buddy who says he meets aliens on DMT, I'm not asking a loaded question and I'm not posing a false dichotomy.
I never enjoyed Descartes, but I can respect what he did for Philosophy.
There's nothing that will ever make me regret my decision to study Philosophy.... I also studied music.... and Computer Electronics..... and I'm a certified Electrician Apprentice, or at least I was. I've been to 4 Post secondary schools, and completed all but one of them. I have 1 degree, 2 diplomas, and 4 computer certifications, MCSA, CCNA, BES, and A+.
I'm no one trick pony, friend.I don't regret learning anything I've learned.
NietzscheKeen
Well-Known Member
Father of modern philosophy as in the most noted one at the beginning of the modern area... more or less. I'd say Wittgenstein or Russell et al would be the fathers of contemporary philosophy. Descartes is just a foot note and only really remembered because he is obligatory reading for intro level philosophy classes. I sometimes think they only teach Descartes to scramble the poor Christian freshmen's minds, *evil laugh!!!
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
Maybe the ability/phenomenon is real but frustratingly inconsistent. That would drive many a good scientist to strong drink. Just an ideation here. cn
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
Not that it's any of your business why I ask questions, but how am I ever going to hear other peoples beliefs and answers to spiritual questions, if I don't ask them anything?
I asked the question because theists are positing that a souls exists. I want to know how theists rationalize what it is, where it comes from, or when it 'enters' a human being.
I'm not asking anything outlandish. It's a fairly straight forward question.
Beefbisquit
Well-Known Member
It could very well be inconsistent.
Typically, inconsistent things still work some of the time.
tyler.durden
Well-Known Member
In this case, even once would be nice...It could very well be inconsistent.
Typically, inconsistent things still work some of the time.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
It could very well be inconsistent.
Typically, inconsistent things still work some of the time.
If it happens but infrequently, I don't think science is currently equipped to deal with that very well. cn