Tempe420
Active Member
Because few ventures are profitable out of the gate. People who can't accept that should never start a business.
How would you recommend a Dispensary source a quality grower?
- Thread starter Tempe420
- Start date
HB DC
Active Member
I am asking because you said you have No intention of making money...
I live at home with the folks so I wouldn't know what you mean...
Tempe420
Active Member
Pretty sure that was never said. I did say im not in this to become rich howeverI am asking because you said you have No intention of making money...
I live at home with the folks so I wouldn't know what you mean...
HB DC
Active Member
$5k on Convection oven...
Just wondering...
Pretty sure that was never said. I did say im not in this to become rich however
Anyone that wants to open a dispensary without any type of compensation/wage/income/profit is full of it... Period.
Whats the plan....
IMO
Any grower that decides to grow for a percentage of their grow will likely be tied into the dispensary with some kind of "kick Back"... If not. What an idiot.
personified
Active Member
Sorry I knew this would come up with out the by-laws to define all of the questions you asked. Which btw I can tell your asking the correct questions. KUDOS!! The by-laws allowed a grower to have one salary for growing and to have one salary for being on the board. So in essence they could make 100+k a year. In addition ther are two growers to work only 40hrs a week just growing.
For security and control each person would have to document weights wet and dry starting with the the ast cultivator verified by the chief cultvator, then varified by the processor which is in turn verified by the manager at dry weight with of course documentation along the whole process. Which means any of those people could also sit on the board and make the extra salary. This is exactly what your talking about with no clear definition which is the grey area I used to compensate at above normal wages. The big trick is not to have inurement and everything can fly just like all the other non-profits.
personified
Active Member
I would have to look which number but off the top of my head I defined it as storefront and grow area. I based it on .091 kw our current rate based on 50 per sq ft running wither 12 or 24 hours depending along with normal costs.
Marketing in this day and age is the internet and computers are my expertise. Legal fees I would put in a hole of my own so they are not confiscated when the business is raided. Legal fees prior to that I would not have. I have always done my own incorpration and civil cases for suits which has faired rather well for me. Lawyers are only I said ONLY experts in the written word what they write is common knowledge and can be found at the Uof A law library. I have spanked lawyers in court several times tehy put their pants on just like me.
I think the numbers all ready demonstrate my ability to do accounting from general ledger (in the old days) through finacials to include end of year taxes. That is the advantage of education and all the years experience. While I would be part of the grow I was the guy in charge for a reason.
If you follow the numbers they all add up and relate to each other to justify the next step. That is what a business plan is suppose to accomplish and the reaon many do not have the ability to do it with out an accountant.
personified
Active Member
Notice 60k for R&D
your on it dude!!
personified
Active Member
I refer to my numbers to answer your question look at the P&L then walk backwards. If you do not truley understand a non-profit (which most do not) then not to be rude I can not explain it here it is just to deep a subject.
Again the only way that rulw can be changed is through a vote even if Brewer woke up tommorow with a joint in her hand she could not change it legally. Remeber teh voter protection act? It goes both ways just not our way according to them. With that vote comes a chance we could lose the right also never forget it squeaked through with 4,321 votes. Do you really want to try to change it right now? It could screw us in the bung hole.
Chronicseeker
New Member
If all of this were to get overturned from what I gathered form others statements patients would still be standing with a doctors recommendation, it would be the dispensaries hopefuls that get the short end of the stick.?.?.?
personified
Active Member
No grower out the door would earn a 100K salary until they proved to me they can do iot. I always find it amusing when I hear people say I am going to ask for a raise. I ask tehm what have they done to make the business more money? They always hesitate and answer nothing I have been there x amount of years I deserve a raise. NO unlike the brainwashing of this administration in REAL business not this fairy land they portray as evil capitaists you must make more money in order to afford to pay more.
People like me regardless of what the Obamination has convinced the nation did not get into business and risk everything so an employee can get the profits. You want the profits dig in your pocket and start your own business with all of the associated risks. You were hired for a job if you no longer want it at the rate we agreed on then show me more money on my bottom line so I can afford to pay you more.
Just because you showed up does not make me more money and that is why I am in buisness and you get a wage every week regardless if I make anything or not. Risk is prioportionate to Return on Investment that is simple economics and accounting.
personified
Active Member
>>>$5k on Convection oven...
Medicine making baby!! The real sick people need medicine. Not to get high! In order to make medicine you must meet the Health code.
Medicine making baby!! The real sick people need medicine. Not to get high! In order to make medicine you must meet the Health code.
HB DC
Active Member
Agree!
Just seems expensive but we are talking about production for a dispensary so..
Rich Dad Poor Dad 101 here...
1337hacker
Active Member
Growers capable of growing for your dispensary, but making less than 100 K is sorta like a Catch 22. They could make far more than 100k per year if they are truly capable of running a dispensary grow. The logistics of growing 100s to 1000s of plants is stressful as well and requires someone overseeing it 7 days a week, 365 days a year. I could drone on and on, but at my hourly rate alone I would make well over 100 K a year working that many hours. So yah, find someone to grow for less than 100k a year I guarantee they aren't a real grower that knows the time and effort that goes into this.
Chronicseeker
New Member
Back to the benefits of a performance based employment contract concept.
Price per LB, there are no excuses, the grower is at fault if they cannot produce..
THEY ARE IN CONTROL OF THEIR OWN DESTINY.
Attempt to determine your dispensaries annual cultivation goals and work out a price per lb that is not negotiable.
Then owners cannot complain about paying gardeners more out of their own pocket because everything is based on a production and determined by a tangible substance. If the annual goal is surpassed maybe a bonus is in order but if not, they grower still profits for cultivating more than the business originally anticipated, which benefits both employees and employers.
How many harvested pounds, in an owners eyes, warrants a $50k salary if the contract is not performance based?
Make the six figures growers put their money were their mouth is, im sure the legitimate individuals would step up to the plate and prove their worth.
I dont doubt a retainer would be in effect but just have a lawyer write the contract with teeth so that retainer is only given after an initial goal/trial period is accomplished.
I would not offer anybody even a $50k salary unless they proved they could grow, how are ones abilities even determined at this point in time with the industry uncertainty? Samples? I know of a grower who recently has used another growers work as their own for an head grower interview... They have photos of their own work etc but the tangible product showcased was not theirs.
Price per Lb seems like a much less risky scenario for business owners.
Price per LB, there are no excuses, the grower is at fault if they cannot produce..
THEY ARE IN CONTROL OF THEIR OWN DESTINY.
Attempt to determine your dispensaries annual cultivation goals and work out a price per lb that is not negotiable.
Then owners cannot complain about paying gardeners more out of their own pocket because everything is based on a production and determined by a tangible substance. If the annual goal is surpassed maybe a bonus is in order but if not, they grower still profits for cultivating more than the business originally anticipated, which benefits both employees and employers.
How many harvested pounds, in an owners eyes, warrants a $50k salary if the contract is not performance based?
Make the six figures growers put their money were their mouth is, im sure the legitimate individuals would step up to the plate and prove their worth.
I dont doubt a retainer would be in effect but just have a lawyer write the contract with teeth so that retainer is only given after an initial goal/trial period is accomplished.
I would not offer anybody even a $50k salary unless they proved they could grow, how are ones abilities even determined at this point in time with the industry uncertainty? Samples? I know of a grower who recently has used another growers work as their own for an head grower interview... They have photos of their own work etc but the tangible product showcased was not theirs.
Price per Lb seems like a much less risky scenario for business owners.
personified
Active Member
That is correct anytime you make performance based pay you will get better results. Then they have vested interersts and risk if they do not perform. The problem I see is that the state rules would consider that an independant contractor and that is against the rules only employees. They did all of this by design to increase the risk and failure.
I would have been the grower. No where capable of 1bs a plant and the reason I used 4 oz avg per plant. At that time I had done 2 oz with my LEDs and figured if I had hps 4 oz should be easy. All the numbers were start up costs not boot strap costs. I have boot straped many of business until I could afford to do it right. Which meant I was the monkey behind the wrench on everything until the product was ready for sell.
When I origianlly started the idea I was intending to go to NM and live in a warehouse for about 8 months to a year. That is when they announced Prop 203 and I started changing the brainwashed locally. The south of NM is very under serverd and has great demand with a no storefront model only delivery. That would limit exposure tremedously and mostly keep it out of the publics iritated eyes.
Chronicseeker
New Member
There are a shit ton of independent contractor all over this industry, anybody who used an outside company for a business plan could look at that as an independent contractor. Now think about people who are offering build-outs, that could potentially be a one time deal as well. Those groups advertise consulting, a very popular work for independent contractors.
Employ a gardener for standard wage, hell even minimum wage and the lbs they produce are considered a performance bonus...
Include this stipulation in their employee contract..
As long as there is some contractual agreement for at least a yr and not month to month, the department would be hard pressed to assume there is an independent contractor, esp if they are only associated with one outfit. People get fired left and right in this industry. If the bonuses are in question, then just make the employee agreement state the expected amount of product to be produced over a set period of time and base the salary on that. Include an SLA clause that states if they don't meet the designated mark, then they are only entitled to the correct percentage of the agreed upon salary.
I foresee many dispensaries using patients/caregivers for genetic consulting or "R&D", look at Arizona Organix... If dispensaries want to grow dank they will need to reach out to those who are proficient in this category unless the want to search for the legit breeders and pheno hunt on their borrowed registration certificate time. Oh yeah, the experience nesecary to maximize a plant potential. Finding quality strains is going to be outside the realm of many operators and is a job in itself.
Like hacker said growing large amounts of cannabis 7 days a week 365 days a year... For what, PHX PD salary?
This is a good thread, people spitballing ideas back and forth.
Employ a gardener for standard wage, hell even minimum wage and the lbs they produce are considered a performance bonus...
Include this stipulation in their employee contract..
As long as there is some contractual agreement for at least a yr and not month to month, the department would be hard pressed to assume there is an independent contractor, esp if they are only associated with one outfit. People get fired left and right in this industry. If the bonuses are in question, then just make the employee agreement state the expected amount of product to be produced over a set period of time and base the salary on that. Include an SLA clause that states if they don't meet the designated mark, then they are only entitled to the correct percentage of the agreed upon salary.
I foresee many dispensaries using patients/caregivers for genetic consulting or "R&D", look at Arizona Organix... If dispensaries want to grow dank they will need to reach out to those who are proficient in this category unless the want to search for the legit breeders and pheno hunt on their borrowed registration certificate time. Oh yeah, the experience nesecary to maximize a plant potential. Finding quality strains is going to be outside the realm of many operators and is a job in itself.
Like hacker said growing large amounts of cannabis 7 days a week 365 days a year... For what, PHX PD salary?
This is a good thread, people spitballing ideas back and forth.
personified
Active Member
Actually teh state does not have to define independant contractor it is defined by the SS8 form on the IRS site. The big thing that differintiates independant from employee is if they are actually independant or being told what to do and how to do it. Once you start defining how they are suppose to do things independance goes out the window.
When I first got out of the Army I was a DJ for a company that tried that shit so I would pay the employeer taxes. I of all the "contractors" was pissed when I had to pay the taxes at the end of the year. That is when I learned accounting to be the system and increase my bottom line.
A second owner purchased the business and litterlly expected me to give up my Mexican music at a mexican club to let him replace me. I had the place packed with a line out the doors for 3 years. The reason he wanted to replace me? Some white manager could not understand why I would not play her ROCK music and kill the night. I said screw him and he went in there to show me how it was done as white as he was and no understanding of mexican music. The hispanic crowed can be wuite vicious when you start screwing up the party. Needless to say it was tough night for him and he came back and fired me.
One of the job requirements was to sign a contract with a no compitetion clause and he tried to stop me from DJing in a Tucson where everyone new ME not him. I immediatley went down to IRS filled the SS8 form and he was out of business in a month. He bought a business that had been avoiding employee taxes under the guise of independance and was now liable for all past due employee taxes and vunerable to being sued by every employee. I of course went on DJing for another 14 years and my best year DJing was 52K which is when I bought my first bar. That is a another story with wonderful learning experiences/costs as well.
Bottom line you have to be very careful on that or the feds will get balls deep in ya'!!
I understand that most business don't operate in the black for at least a year. But if the owners are expecting the growers to take a pay cut for this then why not compensate with an ownership stake in the organization or membership to the board depending upon how the dispensary outfit is structured.
I know of quite a few dispensaries that are part owned by the grower and they seem to be the most successful. Specifically the place ean seeb runs in CO. There are very few people who will be able to make it without realizing the true value and how essential a grower is to your bottom line. WITHOUT THE GROWER THERE IS NOTHING. Assholes have always tried to change the dynamics of this relationship but the truth is the growers are not dependent upon dispensaries for their success, but a dispensaries success is almost 100% dependent upon the grower. Assholes even tried to change this dynamic with bullshit like the 25 mile rule, try and restrict growers and regulate them under the control of the sate via dispensaries. Good luck with that bullshit mentality.
I know of quite a few dispensaries that are part owned by the grower and they seem to be the most successful. Specifically the place ean seeb runs in CO. There are very few people who will be able to make it without realizing the true value and how essential a grower is to your bottom line. WITHOUT THE GROWER THERE IS NOTHING. Assholes have always tried to change the dynamics of this relationship but the truth is the growers are not dependent upon dispensaries for their success, but a dispensaries success is almost 100% dependent upon the grower. Assholes even tried to change this dynamic with bullshit like the 25 mile rule, try and restrict growers and regulate them under the control of the sate via dispensaries. Good luck with that bullshit mentality.
Chronicseeker
New Member
Its funny when people want to try and change dynamic.
FYI, to those individuals, Arizona is not the first medical state..
The ones who think their dispensary will be successful simply because a savy business mentality, it is a small portion of the cannabis realm.
This is an industry based on a commodity not on how well someone performs a service like running a retail shop i.e. dispensary. It's is centraled around growing or at least buying marijuana.
Some of these "well rounded" business people in AZ, think they will capitalize on the 25 mile rule and offer growers a legal outlet but only compensate them pennies. Not good for future relations I would assume.
HB DC
Active Member
Where are the patient/caregiver advocate groups?
Too many folks are focused on the dispensary model... Likely will not last. (look at Cali - prop 420(dispensary implementation) - not working out)
Look at the folks doing well (Harbor Side) mostly backed by Ma & Pa growers... This is the disconnect between the cultivator and the dispensary... Always comes in batches hence the reason for many different growers working with 1 mmj shop at a time!
I compare growing to artistry.. Some can do it and many wish they could but the few that are up to par should not be sold out.
I have always said it may cost 50k to get me interested in a grow op but that doesn't include my pay... If your hands are not sowing the dirt you may not ever see the place type of rules... It is no walk in the park for a grower.. Under the CSA (Controlled Substance Act) you can still be prosecuted while the dispensary Director feels no burden.. Think twice before you plan to set yourself up for a 5 year federal prison sentence. Seriously! I need 100k per year I may spend in Prison. Other than that count me out... Who will bail you out when the Op is raided? Is there a bail out fund set up for growers?
FYI -
Any investor willing to put up cash will have a hard time recovering funds through a civil matter due to marijuana being illegal under federal law.... Any contract signed is void - a person can not be bound to an illegal contract. Off topic but thought it needs bringing up...
Too many folks are focused on the dispensary model... Likely will not last. (look at Cali - prop 420(dispensary implementation) - not working out)
Look at the folks doing well (Harbor Side) mostly backed by Ma & Pa growers... This is the disconnect between the cultivator and the dispensary... Always comes in batches hence the reason for many different growers working with 1 mmj shop at a time!
I compare growing to artistry.. Some can do it and many wish they could but the few that are up to par should not be sold out.
I have always said it may cost 50k to get me interested in a grow op but that doesn't include my pay... If your hands are not sowing the dirt you may not ever see the place type of rules... It is no walk in the park for a grower.. Under the CSA (Controlled Substance Act) you can still be prosecuted while the dispensary Director feels no burden.. Think twice before you plan to set yourself up for a 5 year federal prison sentence. Seriously! I need 100k per year I may spend in Prison. Other than that count me out... Who will bail you out when the Op is raided? Is there a bail out fund set up for growers?
FYI -
Any investor willing to put up cash will have a hard time recovering funds through a civil matter due to marijuana being illegal under federal law.... Any contract signed is void - a person can not be bound to an illegal contract. Off topic but thought it needs bringing up...