How would you recommend a Dispensary source a quality grower?

[Tempe420]

It depends on the compensation. I know a couple guys here with big warehouse grows going right now.If the money is right, I am sure they could be persuaded to grow for you.

Which begs the question. What is "right money"? We have friends of ours that have 2 large facilities and an amazing grower that bounces back and forth between the two. They pay him $1100wk plus use of company vehicle while at work. Seems to be a fairly reasonable amount considering it has ample room for growth and raises. Keeping in mind this guy has managed cultivation in the California area for the past 8yrs.

Hence knowing that we have based our planned compensation similarly and scaling it for experience or lack thereof.

Now it's just time to start shopping for that guy.

We have found companies out there essentially "brokering" an experience grower to us for about a 15% markup as their "fee" for staffing. Not that this is 100% unfair since they are established in helping folks build their Dispensaries staff but we are trying to do this on our own.

 

[Bird Gymnastics]

Which begs the question. What is "right money"? We have friends of ours that have 2 large facilities and an amazing grower that bounces back and forth between the two. They pay him $1100wk plus use of company vehicle while at work. Seems to be a fairly reasonable amount considering it has ample room for growth and raises. Keeping in mind this guy has managed cultivation in the California area for the past 8yrs.

Hence knowing that we have based our planned compensation similarly and scaling it for experience or lack thereof.

Now it's just time to start shopping for that guy.

We have found companies out there essentially "brokering" an experience grower to us for about a 15% markup as their "fee" for staffing. Not that this is 100% unfair since they are established in helping folks build their Dispensaries staff but we are trying to do this on our own.

Most growers I know in California grow for percentages of the overall harvest. Very hard to find one willing to work salary. Not too many people are okay with making 10% of what the "owner" is making. Percentage base not only keeps the grower wanting to produce more, but also works as an incentive to the "investor" because that grower will always be trying to produce something better and better.I know a few guys that got job offerings but they did the math and would make more money being a private caregiver then making some "already" rich guys more money. Sadly enough, that is what our world has come to. Everyone is getting re and more greedy

On the contrary, if someone was willing to give me a boutique type grow, I would drop my grow op and move on. But there isn't much money in being selective and growing certain strains for certain ailments, thus one of these will probably never open up. Mostly everyone is in it for the quick buck rather then the compassion of growing the best possible natural medicine.

 

[Tempe420]

Most growers I know in California grow for percentages of the overall harvest. Very hard to find one willing to work salary. Not too many people are okay with making 10% of what the "owner" is making. Percentage base not only keeps the grower wanting to produce more, but also works as an incentive to the "investor" because that grower will always be trying to produce something better and better.I know a few guys that got job offerings but they did the math and would make more money being a private caregiver then making some "already" rich guys more money. Sadly enough, that is what our world has come to. Everyone is getting re and more greedy

On the contrary, if someone was willing to give me a boutique type grow, I would drop my grow op and move on. But there isn't much money in being selective and growing certain strains for certain ailments, thus one of these will probably never open up. Mostly everyone is in it for the quick buck rather then the compassion of growing the best possible natural medicine.

Well since all Dispensaries out here are non-profit then i doubt anyone is going to be willing to work for 10% of nothing. Not to mention the grower would never actually know the bottom line the Dispensary owner will be making.

I personally think anyone with half a brain and a desire to succeed and have a career would jump at a stable income doing something that they love. Who knows though. I know myself, as a grower would indeed. I would hope whoever I was growing for commercially was someone that I liked, someone that appreciated the Cannabis, appreciated me, what I do and my dedication to the plant, and someone who gave back in some way to the community. Asking for much more than that I feel would be a dead end street.

This leads me to the reason I got involved with even applying for a Dispensary license. I am not rich, love the plant and love growing. I just wanted to make sure there were at least a few of us out there. Lucky for me, we got a lotto ball. It's been scrounging for $$, resources and good people ever since.

I hope to get the support of fellow growers down the road.

 

[Chronicseeker]

Grow safe, reasonably priced dank strains that are not chemically saturated and you will earn some good support.
Actions always speak louder than words and patient satisfaction is what matters in the end IMO, after all they are the customers.
$57k a year for a grower of the caliber you suggested, running two facilities is a steal, congratulations.
We're strains included?
There are two gardeners out there who walked on 50k a year salary, a piece, for one facilty simply because the math was not in their favor compared to their current cultivation situation. (similar scenario as bird suggested)

Employment could also hinge on the know how of the operators... If someone w/o a cannabis clue was running a dispensary, the grower carries a lot of the weight on their shoulders. This weight ultimately determines the success of the business.
Chronic sells itself but it sure doesn't grow itself.

What about paying growers based on performance rather than a percentage of a business?
A set price per lb, then a grower can only blame themselves for not meeting the desired compensation mark.

 

[irieie]

Yeah you are totally fucking that guy. 57200 a year before taxes are you kidding? Let's do the math. Let's say someone grew in a spare bedroom and they got a very reasonable and conservative estimate of 3000 a pound. For argument sake we will round up to 60000 for getting to drive the company vehicle. So he would have to grow 20 lbs to gross 60000. That's 1.66 pounds every month. This could easily be done with a two light setup. Make it a four light setup and there is no contest. Some people succeed by taking advantage of others then they need to justify it with their bullshit.

 

[personified]

I had every intention of applying for a licensee until the prop got so perverted the model makes no sense to achieve with out great risks for our own state above and beyond the feds.

I of course had the complete business plan prepared prior to when the prop passed. I had been working on it for two years prior to its passing pulling from NM and Col prior dispensary applications. Gotta love the freedom of information act. While I got to see the format of their plans I did not see the numbers. They were not required in those states and I had to estimate what my production would be based on my lack of experience at the time and just prudent planning for worse case scenarios.

So I can say there are a couple that may be able to answer this question with the actual business experience to give a liegitimate answer. How close were my numbers to run the actual facility. Please answer if you only been in a managment/owner position. Please not the up and coming....

I will attach the numbers which actually amazed me in the end as I was a like a lot on this site man I get some lights and be in business. WOOF!! The advantage of my degrees is no matter what you do make a business plan. Sometimes you can gross millions that does not mean you make any money.

This model is based on a true non-profit with money being distributed based on position, knowledge, saftey, health, and welfare of the customers. UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A REAL NON-PROFIT for those that do not understand. It means you can make a profit and have a postive bottom line it just has to be saved or distributed according to the by-laws so no one benifits personaly or your not a non-profit your a for profit business and not following prop 203.

More to come in the next posts...........

 

[personified]

My build out was based on 99 plants to try and avoid the feds.

Grow Room Build Out
Number of Rooms	5		2x4x12
Room Width	12		8
Room Length	12		24	On 2' Center
Room Height	12		8
Sq Ft	144
Cubic Feet	1728
Min Sq Ft for Grow Rooms	720
Security and Crime Prevention
Security 500GB Hard Drive & 8 High-Resolution Cameras	3	500.00			1500.00
Building Materials
2x4x12	40	5.00			200.00
Sheet Rock 4x12	15	15.00			225.00
White Paint 5 Gallon	1	100.00			100.00
Doors	5	100.00			500.00
Electrical					500
Plumbing					300
Medicine Preperation
3 Bin Stainless Steel Sink	1	450			450
Stainless Steel Table	1	500			500
Convection Oven	1	5000			5000
Counter Top Warmer	2	250			500
Pollen Master 1500 - Hash Machine 3.5 lb Leaf	1	1300			1300
BONSAI HERO - Cutting Tool	2	735			1470
						$11,045.00
Store Front Build Out
Security and Crime Prevention
Security 500GB Hard Drive & 8 High-Resolution Cameras	3	500.00			1500.00
Security Shutters	3	1000.00			3000.00
Lobby and Office
Display Cabinets	3	1000.00			3000.00
Chairs Lobby	10	50.00			500.00
Tables	2	50.00			100.00
Counter Top per Foot	10	30.00			300.00
Desks	5	100.00			500.00
Office Chairs	5	150.00			750.00
Dry Eraser Message Board	5	60.00			300.00
Paint 5 Gallon	3	100.00			300.00
Additional Lighting	10	45.00			450.00
Networking Cable	10	50.00			500.00
Router	1	100.00			100.00
Hub	1	100.00			100.00
Computers	3	500.00			1500.00
Point of Sale - Quick Books	2	1000.00			2000.00
						$14,900.00

 

[personified]

Start Up Costs
Apllication Fees
Grow Facility
Rent Deposit	1,000
Electrical Deposit	3,215
Water Deposit	300
Gas Deposit	450
Build Out	11,045
Costs to Harvest with Labor 1st Grow	101,229
	Phase 1	$ 117,239
Storefront
Rent Deposit	3,000
Electrical Deposit	3,215
Water Deposit	300
Gas Deposit	450
Build Out	14,900
	Phase 2	$ 21,865
	Total Start Up Costs	$139,104

 

[personified]

1st Grow Costs
RENT		1,000.00
ELECTRIC		1,071.58
WATER		100.00
GAS		150.00
INSURANCE		200.00
ALARM		200.00
INTERNET/PHONE		150.00
NUTRIENTS & SUPPLIES		200.00
		per month	3,072
Weeks in Harvest
Seedling to Flower	8
Sexing	2
Flower to Harvest	10	Multiply by
Curing	4	Months	6
Weeks	24		Cost W/O Labor	$ 18,429
Grow Labor
ASSISTANT CULTIVATOR		9200
CHIEF CULTIVATOR		4600
			13800
		Multiply by
		Months	6
				82,800
				Cost WITH Labor	$ 101,229
Harvest in Pounds		24.75
6 Month 1st Harvest		Cost per Pound
W/O Labor		$ 744.62
WITH Labor		$ 4,090.08

 

[personified]

Number of Plants	99
Avg Grow Weight	4	OZ's
		396
Grow Weeks Avg	8
Grow Cycles in a Year		6.50		LBs Annual
Avg Weight in Oz's Annual	2,574		160.88
Avg Weight in Grams Annual	72,072
Whole Sale Price per gram	15
Whole Sale per Gram		$1,081,080.00
			$ 1,081,080.00
Annual Operations Costs		$ 1,032,998
Annual Costs per Gram		$ 14

 

[personified]

ENTRY LEVEL PERSONNEL
Hours in a Week	20
Hourly Rate	15
Weekly Wage	300
Monthly Emp Costs	1200
Monthly Emp Cost+Cam	1380
Annual	16560
Number of Employees at Grow Facility
Number of Employees at Store Front	10
EDUCATION ADVOCATE
Hours in a Week	20
Hourly Rate	15
Weekly Wage	300
Monthly Emp Costs	1200
Monthly Emp Cost+Cam	1380
Annual	16560
Number of Employees at Grow Facility	0
Number of Employees at Store Front	3
ASSISTANT CULTIVATOR
Weekly Wage	1000
Monthly Salary	4000
Monthly Salary + CAM	4600
Annual	52000
Annual Salary + CAM	55200
Number of Employees at Grow Facility	2
Number of Employees at Store Front	0
CHIEF CULTIVATOR
Weekly Wage	1000
Monthly Salary	4000
Monthly Salary + CAM	4600
Annual	52000
Annual Salary + CAM	55200
Number of Employees at Grow Facility	1
Number of Employees at Store Front	0
PROCESSOR
Weekly Wage	1000
Monthly Salary	4000
Monthly Salary + CAM	4600
Annual	52000
Annual Salary + CAM	55200
Number of Employees at Grow Facility	1
Number of Employees at Store Front	1
MANAGER
Weekly Wage	1000
Monthly Salary	4000
Monthly Salary + CAM	4600
Annual	52000
Annual Salary + CAM	55200
Number of Employees at Grow Facility	1
Number of Employees at Store Front	4
HR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
Weekly Wage	1000
Monthly Salary	4000
Monthly Salary + CAM	4600
Annual	52000
Annual Salary + CAM	55200
Number of Employees at Grow Facility	0
Number of Employees at Store Front	1
EXECUTIVE BOARD MEMBERS
Weekly Wage	1000
Monthly Salary	4000
Monthly Salary + CAM	4600
Annual	52000
Annual Salary + CAM	55200
Number Exec Board Members Grow	0
Number Exec Board Members Storefront	4

 

[personified]

Profit & Loss
Grow Operation
			Month			Annual
GROSS SALES			90,090			$ 1,081,080
RENT		1,000		12,000
ELECTRIC		1,072		12,859
WATER		100		1,200
GAS		150		1,800
INSURANCE		200		2,400
ALARM		200		2,400
INTERNET/PHONE		150		1,800
NUTRIENTS & SUPPLIES		200		2,400
RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT		5,000		60,000
			8,072		96,859
ENTRY LEVEL PERSONNEL			-
EDUCATION ADVOCATE			-
ASSISTANT CULTIVATOR			9,200
CHIEF CULTIVATOR			4,600
PROCESSOR			4,600	55,200
MANAGER			4,600	55,200
HR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR			-	-
EXECUTIVE BOARD MEMBERS			-
			23,000		$ 110,400
Store Front
RENT		3,000		36,000
ELECTRIC		1,072		12,859
WATER		100		1,200
GAS		150		1,800
INSURANCE		200		2,400
ALARM		200		2,400
INTERNET/PHONE		150		1,800
			4,872		58,459
ENTRY LEVEL PERSONNEL			13,800	165,600
EDUCATION ADVOCATE			4,140	49,680
ASSISTANT CULTIVATOR			-	-
CHIEF CULTIVATOR			-	-
PROCESSOR			4,600	55,200
MANAGER			18,400	220,800
HR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR			4,600	55,200
EXECUTIVE BOARD MEMBERS			18,400	220,800
			63,940		767,280
						1,032,998
				Net Pre Tax	$ 48,082
				Tax Rate	35%	16,829
				Net After Taxes	$ 31,253
					Sales Tax Generated	$ 98,378.28

 

[personified]

I have over 30 years experience in business and a lot of education to support it.

However this is an industry that you can not easily produce and many pitfalls above and beyond our government. Lets just imagine if I could not clone fast enough bam game over with thsoe costs failure. Which is why I am sure there will be failures by people that only have the money and no knowledged of business let alone knowledge of this business.

Just the growing it self is more complex not to mention our prop 203 is very intrusive in to every aspect of the business from seed to stem to track ever dollar for revenue. Also let us not forget how the feds are shafting Harbor side and not letting them use expenses to deduct from the profit. With out normal business expenses your taxes can amount to more than all of your expenses combined.

Problem is... it is just a plan and SHIT happens in business you can not plan for especially without any expereince in that industry.

I can not say how many times in these forums I hear people thinking all it takes is a couple lights and some seeds. Hell that is what started me down the path of true enlightenment. I am lucky however I knew how to obtain the knowleged to over come my confusion and "PLANT" my feet in reality.

Again looking for input from those that have actually done it on a grand scale not twelve plants and a theory.

 

[Chronicseeker]

Directors of a non-profit are allowed reasonable compensation, this is outlined...
What is reasonable and who determines the value is the better question.
Not many deep pocketed individuals would get into this industry for next to no salary.

Hedge fund operators start on-profits to cover up large bonuses and excessive compensation w/o recourse.

There is no clear definition of what reasonable compensation is, anywhere....

Also, back to paying cultivators next to nothing for running facilities, I somewhat understand, this is AZ were the required escrow amount for applying to the state was $150k. Some of the newer medical states require upwards of 2 million in escrow.... That being said, the idea of only needing $150k coneys the concept that a business in this industry can run and be profitable with $150k startup. You will get what you pay for in the end, I foresee lots of cultivators being replaced in the programs infancy simply because they will realize $50k is not worth a 7 day a week job in an industry were the product being grown provides the business with revenue and longevity. Asking people to bow down to a registration certificate is crazy and to be honest those certs are only good for 8 more months than back into the lottery.

It would seem making a strong relationship w/ a growers and respecting their overall position in this industry would be more beneficial vs making them seem inferior simply because they are not holding the regirstration cert. The ones begging to work for pennies have no idea what they are getting into. I was surprised to read that an 8yr vet from Cali is accepting 60k for heading multple facilities. If the grows we're completely automated then that's cool but we all know no machine can substitute for tangible experience and physical plant interaction.

 

[irieie]

8 years is a good amount of time but I would far from call that person a "vet." One of my partners has been growing for 25 years. If the guy was such a seasoned and successful grower in Cali then why did he come to az for 60k a year?

People in this industry talk a lot of shit and the more people I meet the less I listen to anything anyone says. There is one absolute truth in this "industry" and that is the fact that all of it originates from one product, one production process and is up to the grower. The growerw hold all the pwer and if they are too stupid to realize this, or they suck at growing and are doomed to fail before they started. The success or failure of a dispensary will solely be based on their ability to produce quality product at a reasonable price. All the other jobs revolve around this. Until owners looking for talent realize this and start compensating growers accordingly they will keep attracting the quality of talent they already have.

 

[Chronicseeker]

^^^ double like, product speaks for itself once again. The state setting the entry mark at 150k only sets the stages for low paying jobs when compared to 2 mil.
I love the fucking talkers... There is a guy out there who claims to be the almighty grower etc but has not grown anything worthwhile in recent years and all he does is pray on others with his online/ self fabricated persona. I am speaking from experience and anyone who has a head on their shoulders can see this bs after just one meet. It easy, there is too much talking and no acting, EVER. Lazy people who pawn off work on others and tout the success as their own. This clown is still out there looking for their next victim.

 

[jjlongo]

This is interesting. Where are the costs associated with running the grow operation? (Elec, water, insurance, etc)

I assume that $1,072 itemized above for electric is for the storefront operation, correct?

My guess would be that the operating costs of the grow facility itself will be at least 50-75% of the total operational costs.

You are going to want to also account for legal fees, marketing, accounting etc.

(i have only had 1/2 a cup of coffee)

 

[Chronicseeker]

And what about genetics or at least some form of genetic consulting for those outfits with no idea, i.e. the ones searching for 31% THC strains...
Oh wait, everyone needs to freely give away strains and what a honor it would be to just hand them over to a dispensary who has no intention of including those growers in their operation.... Instead they just want the easy way out of the red.

Genetics can cost thousands and then you have to search for the phenos, nutes, elec, water, time etc. There are no guarantees a pack of seeds or even the chosen breeder will remotely yield a keeper. The quality beans, clones etc come with research and a price.

 

[Tempe420]

Personified - your figures are most definitely the most accurate ive seen and pretty much mirror ours. That being said. The numbers for plant yields and plant AMOUNTS is where the big difference is.

I would love to sit down with you sometime. Message us and perhaps we can have coffee.

That actually applies to any of you. We are interested in growers, not profiteers. We aren't in this to become rich. We are in this to build one of the few Dispensaries in this town that is doing it right and it shows.

As for monies paid to growers etc, we are going off of projections for a non-profit. I believe anyone would be foolish to promise 6 figure salaries to a grower before they are out of their first year in business. The first year in a biz like this there is a GOOD chance most of our board members will be struggling themselves.

 

[HB DC]

Personified - your figures are most definitely the most accurate ive seen and pretty much mirror ours. That being said. The numbers for plant yields and plant AMOUNTS is where the big difference is.

I would love to sit down with you sometime. Message us and perhaps we can have coffee.

That actually applies to any of you. We are interested in growers, not profiteers. We aren't in this to become rich. We are in this to build one of the few Dispensaries in this town that is doing it right and it shows.

As for monies paid to growers etc, we are going off of projections for a non-profit. I believe anyone would be foolish to promise 6 figure salaries to a grower before they are out of their first year in business. The first year in a biz like this there is a GOOD chance most of our board members will be struggling themselves.

If there is not a livable wage for your board members how will such a feat take flight? Non profits generate revenue and that is the main principle of a non profit; to make money for a cause(Mission)! If you intend to not make money how would this dispensary stay afloat?

It will take a large investment to consider opening or operating a dispensary..

IMO..

I don't see the dispensary model lasting long in Az... Be more creative. A true caregiver collective is the best option but this will only be possible until the "25 Mile Rule" goes into effect.