Global warming pauses... for sixteen years

[Red1966]

that power station could have surfed japan all the way to china if the backup/ auxillery generators were placed higher http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/jul/05/fukushima-meltdown-manmade-disaster

Really? You're still trying to argue this? "If" blah blah blah. "If" didn't happened, why do you keep pretending it makes a difference.

 

[cannabineer]

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/17/researchers-estimate-130-might-die-from-fukushima-related-cancers/ http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/state&id=8742223 http://www.futurity.org/health-medicine/estimate-predicts-fukushimas-toll-at-130-deaths/

Both of those links discuss "estimated deaths" in the future and do nothing to support your (imo recklessly bold) claim that dozens did die of radiation during the crisis.
Please provide sources for that. cn

For clarity's sake, here was the claim that aroused my interest.

So, while the reactor did leak radiation all over the place, some how that doesn't count because the design was good? I heard there were 50-100 workers at the plant who did die while heroically attempting to contain the leak. Some died right away, some shortly after, and some more will die in the near future from radiation poisoning. A leaking reactor is a clean reactor? What rubbish!

 

[NoDrama]

Yes, I believe Exxon is telling folks in Alaska that they have it good, that the Valdeeze actually improved their fishing grounds. I know that BP is claiming that there was no lasting harm even as three headed shrimp are washing up on the shore and people discovered that their homes were smeared with oil after the last hurricane

How does a tropical storm exist in the arctic anyway?

 

[ginjawarrior]

Really? You're still trying to argue this? "If" blah blah blah. "If" didn't happened, why do you keep pretending it makes a difference.

yeah that power station was hit by a huge natural disaster that triggered a chain of events with each step being preventable

have you got a mobile phone? if the charger gets wet and breaks do you say the mobile phone is broken?

 

[NoDrama]

Expensive energy = deflation and poor economic conditions. Green energy at the cost of cheap energy = deflation and poor economic conditions.

 

[Red1966]

Let me see if I have this in order: We should wait before we spend money and time correcting activity that causes suspected global warming because there really isn't much evidence that global warming is hazardous even if it is happeneing and we should save our money for more concrete dangers. But We should be proactive on voter ID, we should spend the money and endanger legitimate voter's ability to vote because, well, you never know and it is best that we be safe from illegal voting that has never been proven to exist at all. Is that about it?

Your expenses for a debatable GW cure are so great that they would change our standard of living in a drastic way. Voter ID costs almost nothing, endangers only illegitimate voters (something we want to do). Illegal voting has been proven to occur, people have been convicted of it. You're lying when you say it hasn't. Your lack of integrity, on this and other subjects, is consistent. There was a time when I had some respect for you. Sadly, this has severely declined.

 

[canndo]

How does a tropical storm exist in the arctic anyway?

um... BP and the gulf? recall that spill? it was far from the pole.

 

[NoDrama]

um... BP and the gulf? recall that spill? it was far from the pole.

NM, i see you have 2 different subjects in the same paragraph, apparently BP=Mexican Gulf and Exxon = Alaska. I thought you were saying that oil left over from the Valdez spill got on homes in Alaska during one of those frequent Alaskan hurricanes.

The gulf is still leaking oil.

 

[canndo]

Your expenses for a debatable GW cure are so great that they would change our standard of living in a drastic way. Voter ID costs almost nothing, endangers only illegitimate voters (something we want to do). Illegal voting has been proven to occur, people have been convicted of it. You're lying when you say it hasn't. Your lack of integrity, on this and other subjects, is consistent. There was a time when I had some respect for you. Sadly, this has severely declined.

I am remiss in blurring issues here. I do not contend that raising taxes on energy will be much help with regard to Global warming, if you got that impression it is my lack of focus today that is to blame.

I am sorry you feel I have a lack of integrity, I try my best to correct my statements when I am proven wrong and post what I truely believe to be accurate (unless it is in jest or absurdity for effect).

Very little illegal voting, the sort that would be curtailed or stopped due to the enactment of Voter ID has been in evidence. If you want to debate voter ID we can do that but what I was attempting to compare was the right's insistance that we have irrefutable proof of widespread global climate change before they are willing to act yet they need nothing but the few cases of voter fraud and plenty of conjecture in order to disrupt voters and spend millions of dollars in order to act "preemptively".

 

[canndo]

NM, i see you have 2 different subjects in the same paragraph, apparently BP=Mexican Gulf and Exxon = Alaska. I thought you were saying that oil left over from the Valdez spill got on homes in Alaska during one of those frequent Alaskan hurricanes.

Forgive me, I am operating in a challenged state this afternoon.

 

[Red1966]

none of them are workers dying at the plant from radiation its interesting that the evacuation killed more people than the estimate they gave

Since workers at the plant received that most intense radiation, surely some of them would be affected. Yes 600+ deaths from the evacuation is a surprisingly high number. But they should still be included as caused directly by the radiation leak. Why? Because 100's of thousands were evacuated, if they had stayed in place, they would have eventually absorbed enough radiation that most of them would have died. Exposure is equal to the level of radiation times length of time exposed. 1 second exposure at 5,000 mrem equals the accepted safe level for a year. 1 day at 5,000 mrem and portions of your body have turned to mush and sloughed off, you've been dead for some time, and just moving your body could be fatal to your would be rescuer.

 

[cannabineer]

^rem measure cumulative exposure and not intensity ... cn

 

[Red1966]

Both of those links discuss "estimated deaths" in the future and do nothing to support your (imo recklessly bold) claim that dozens did die of radiation during the crisis. Please provide sources for that. cn For clarity's sake, here was the claim that aroused my interest.

Perhaps "I heard" is where you have a problem? Sorry, I can't remember who or where I heard it. However, we have substantial data from the aftermath of Three-Mile, Chernobyl, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki to extrapolate the death toll with some degree of accuracy. If it was my contention that ginjapretendwarrior's claim that somehow the disaster was meaningless because "if" this and "if" that, it wouldn't have happened is asinine, well I respectfully disagree.

 

[cannabineer]

Perhaps "I heard" is where you have a problem? Sorry, I can't remember who or where I heard it. However, we have substantial data from the aftermath of Three-Mile, Chernobyl, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki to extrapolate the death toll with some degree of accuracy. If it was my contention that ginjapretendwarrior's claim that somehow the disaster was meaningless because "if" this and "if" that, it wouldn't have happened is asinine, well I respectfully disagree.

My issue wasn't "I heard" but rather "did die", which means deaths that already happened. My read of the news and post-news suggests that fewer than ten people have died to date from radiation.
But it's not a complaint of any great consequence, so I'll drop it. cn

 

[UncleBuck]

Your expenses for a debatable GW cure are so great that they would change our standard of living in a drastic way. Voter ID costs almost nothing, endangers only illegitimate voters (something we want to do). Illegal voting has been proven to occur, people have been convicted of it. You're lying when you say it hasn't. Your lack of integrity, on this and other subjects, is consistent. There was a time when I had some respect for you. Sadly, this has severely declined.

hear that, canndo?

the snitching little stormfront all star has lost respect for you.

if you need any comfort or support during these tough times, i am here to help.

 

[Red1966]

yeah that power station was hit by a huge natural disaster that triggered a chain of events with each step being preventable have you got a mobile phone? if the charger gets wet and breaks do you say the mobile phone is broken?

Each step was not prevented. If the charger got wet and the phone caught fire and exploded, yes the phone is broken. If a reactor catches fire and explodes, spewing radiation about, how can you claim it was safe? I can't believe you're still claiming it was. Before the disaster, in their arrogance, they thought they had solved all the problems. Well, it turns out they where wrong. Being unable to admit you're mistaken in the face of a catastrophic disaster is beyond arrogance, it's delusional.

 

[canndo]

hear that, canndo?

the snitching little stormfront all star has lost respect for you.

if you need any comfort or support during these tough times, i am here to help.

I like people to respect me. I like people to like me - a lot actually, but I am unwilling to change my behavior very much in order to have either of those happen. I figure if I were willing to make changes in my behavior in order to have people like or respect me, they would not like or respect me very much

 

[Red1966]

NM, i see you have 2 different subjects in the same paragraph, apparently BP=Mexican Gulf and Exxon = Alaska. I thought you were saying that oil left over from the Valdez spill got on homes in Alaska during one of those frequent Alaskan hurricanes. The gulf is still leaking oil.

Apparently so. They have discovered a new "sheen" (not sure how that is defined) that has the same composition as the oil from the original blowout. It could be just oil that was somehow contained thru some natural process that has only recently been released into the open ocean. They are trying to determine this now.

 

[ginjawarrior]

Each step was not prevented. If the charger got wet and the phone caught fire and exploded, yes the phone is broken. If a reactor catches fire and explodes, spewing radiation about, how can you claim it was safe? I can't believe you're still claiming it was. Before the disaster, in their arrogance, they thought they had solved all the problems. Well, it turns out they where wrong. Being unable to admit you're mistaken in the face of a catastrophic disaster is beyond arrogance, it's delusional.

ok the design of that style of nuclear reactor is inherently unsafe as it needs constant cooling

the buildings were built like brick shit houses as part of the protection that build survived the earthquake and the tsunami

the pressure vessels also survived a few weeks without sufficient cooling and we never had a Chernobyl style meltdown it was "mostly contained"

apart from "keeping it plugged in" the system did its job very well, proof of concept

but i would like to see passively cooled nuclear reactors built from now on. the ones where you just walk away without ever the risk of criticality

 

[Red1966]

I am remiss in blurring issues here. I do not contend that raising taxes on energy will be much help with regard to Global warming, if you got that impression it is my lack of focus today that is to blame. I am sorry you feel I have a lack of integrity, I try my best to correct my statements when I am proven wrong and post what I truely believe to be accurate (unless it is in jest or absurdity for effect). Very little illegal voting, the sort that would be curtailed or stopped due to the enactment of Voter ID has been in evidence. If you want to debate voter ID we can do that but what I was attempting to compare was the right's insistance that we have irrefutable proof of widespread global climate change before they are willing to act yet they need nothing but the few cases of voter fraud and plenty of conjecture in order to disrupt voters and spend millions of dollars in order to act "preemptively".

I doubt that acquiring ID is that costly, nearly everyone has ID already, and those that don't are unlikely voters anyway. The schemes in place for controlling GW only restrict some nations, at the cost of trillions not millions, and don't restrict the carbon outputs of the most populous nations, China and India, at all. These schemes seem to be designed not to control GW, but to enact some sort of "social justice" that transfers wealth from "developed" nations to "undeveloped" nations. If anything, China and India are way overdeveloped, yet they are not constrained at all by the current proposed schemes. All these programs will do it transfer the source of pollution to nations that currently make little or no attempt at all to curtail emissions.