Whats Ron Pauls Jobs Plan

[undertheice]

Lets nip this fallacy in the bud right now. The reason we had this economic collapse is government manipulation plain and simple.
What kind of moron thinks its a good idea to make a mortgage loan to someone who has a small down payment and a bad history of paying? We don't need regulations to tell banks to stop making horseshit loans. In no way whatsoever does the free market make these loans.

you'll never get any of these guys to follow such simple logic. they'll deny government's role in any of this with their last breath, unless they can blame it on baby bush. that he was only one link in the chain is too much for them to assimilate, so they place the entire onus on one fool. it seems to make them feel better about having placed an ineffective buffoon on the throne.

 

[dukeanthony]

Lets nip this fallacy in the bud right now. The reason we had this economic collapse is government manipulation plain and simple.
What kind of moron thinks its a good idea to make a mortgage loan to someone who has a small down payment and a bad history of paying? We don't need regulations to tell banks to stop making horseshit loans. In no way whatsoever does the free market make these loans.

Goverment didnt make these Loans

BANKS did
And The goverment NEVER dictated the Banks Underwriting. Now stop trying to Blame Poor people (minorities) For a deregulated mortgage market

 

[redivider]

Lets nip this fallacy in the bud right now. The reason we had this economic collapse is government manipulation plain and simple.
What kind of moron thinks its a good idea to make a mortgage loan to someone who has a small down payment and a bad history of paying? We don't need regulations to tell banks to stop making horseshit loans. In no way whatsoever does the free market make these loans.

you're right. we don't need to tell banks not to sell horseshit loans.

we need to force banks to do the following: if you securitize horseshit mortages and sell them in the free market, they'll be advertised as horseshit products. not as AAA products that are really garbage loans. it's misrepresentation that if it happened in some other industry, REGULATIONS would hold the seller accountable. this doesn't happen in the securities market b/c there are NO regulations.

government manipulation. give me a break.... if the banks weren't able to sell these loans off they wouldn't have money to keep lending.

 

[Parker]

Goverment didnt make these Loans

BANKS did
And The goverment NEVER dictated the Banks Underwriting. Now stop trying to Blame Poor people (minorities) For a deregulated mortgage market

It wasn't deregulated and I didn't blame the poor. Reread my post.
Bank Presidents "why should we make those loans?"
Govt "don't worry you'll be covered"

 

[Parker]

you're right. we don't need to tell banks not to sell horseshit loans.
we need to force banks to do the following: if you securitize horseshit mortages and sell them in the free market, they'll be advertised as horseshit products. not as AAA products that are really garbage loans. it's misrepresentation that if it happened in some other industry, REGULATIONS would hold the seller accountable. this doesn't happen in the securities market b/c there are NO regulations.
government manipulation. give me a break.... if the banks weren't able to sell these loans off they wouldn't have money to keep lending.

Regulations??? The Free Market already holds the seller accountable. How can you not know that?
Government manipulation was involved in the entire process. Right down to bailouts. The Free Market doesn't make those loans and the Free Market doesn't bailout inept companies.
And who says banks should keep lending just to lend? You lend to qualified people in order to make money. The "free money" which was done through government manipulation of the housing market specifically the lowering of interest rates, which caused mal investment, which caused this depression. Same thing that caused the great depression, same thing we see now on the education cost bubble.

 

[redivider]

Regulations??? The Free Market already holds the seller accountable. How can you not know that?
Government manipulation was involved in the entire process. Right down to bailouts. The Free Market doesn't make those loans and the Free Market doesn't bailout inept companies.
And who says banks should keep lending just to lend? You lend to qualified people in order to make money. The "free money" which was done through government manipulation of the housing market specifically the lowering of interest rates, which caused mal investment, which caused this depression. Same thing that caused the great depression, same thing we see now on the education cost bubble.

you are correct, but you are missing the other part of the housing debacle pie.

which was the securitization and selling off of questionable mortages as 'collateralized debt obligaitons' which were given AAA ratings even though the banks knew that some of these carried huge risks.

that side of the pie you are missing and it is a HUGE one. that's what kept the money flowing for banks to keep lending to questionable 'borrowers'...

 

[VTXDave]

**cough **cough** Gramm-Leach-Bliley **cough

 

[redivider]

+ rep to you sir.

this is what i've said a few times..

the financial sector of our economy was well regulated until the clinton years, Reagan started it but even his de-regulation didn't even come close to what happened in 1999.....

thank you....

 

[dukeanthony]

Clinton screwed the pooch. Wonder what he got out of it or was he really stupid enough to Believe Phil Gramm at the time

 

[VTXDave]

Not sure what the man was thinking. I'm no fan of Clinton, but deep down inside I feel that his intentions were good and I mean that. It's a classic case of the old adage "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."...Agreed?

 

[dukeanthony]

Not sure what the man was thinking. I'm no fan of Clinton, but deep down inside I feel that his intentions were good and I mean that. It's a classic case of the old adage "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."...Agreed?

It was one of those Ideas that seemed good at the time I guess

 

[redivider]

well the idea at the time, and economists agreed, that this would make access to money easier and would lead to more people being able to access credit, basically more fluidity within the monetary system so more people would have more money....

BS... some people figured out how to use this deregulated system to funnel TONS of money to themselves while leaving everybody else (tax payers)on the hook....


and some of these securities instruments are so complicated that the money may not flow out of a handful of companies' control for 20-30+ years.....

 

[Parker]

you are correct, but you are missing the other part of the housing debacle pie.
which was the securitization and selling off of questionable mortages as 'collateralized debt obligaitons' which were given AAA ratings even though the banks knew that some of these carried huge risks.
that side of the pie you are missing and it is a HUGE one. that's what kept the money flowing for banks to keep lending to questionable 'borrowers'...

Nope not missing a thing. No doubt that added to the problem or maybe caused the problem to hit quicker. But make no mistake the problem was unqualified buyers. Treat the cause not the symptom. There's a reason those loans were never made before and are not being made today.
You do not go against the free market by giving loans to people who cannot pay them back, a bad risk. You do not go against the free market by lowering/manipulating the interest rate below market. That causes mal investment. The booms hit early and the busts that occur later are always worse than the booms.

All that free money made housing prices skyrocket higher than market value. That wasn't free market. There was no shortage of supply in relation to demand to cause prices to go up. Same thing with the cost of a college education.

 

[redivider]

?????

ok.

let me explain this again, b/c you seem to not get it.

banks did not HAVE to sell risky securities like if they were AAA bonds, that's what provided them with MORE cash to keep lending....

i suggest you see the movie "Inside Job"... if you cannot put the dots together this movie will most def. make you understand. it's the documentary, not the bank heist one i'm referring to....

 

[Parker]

?????
ok.
let me explain this again, b/c you seem to not get it.
banks did not HAVE to sell risky securities like if they were AAA bonds, that's what provided them with MORE cash to keep lending....
i suggest you see the movie "Inside Job"... if you cannot put the dots together this movie will most def. make you understand. it's the documentary, not the bank heist one i'm referring to....

You're horrible at finding the cause, no wonder you cannot solve the problem. Sad thing is your thinking adds fuel to the fire by using band aids by treating the symptoms which has never worked in the long run. Please show me where it has.
Quit trying to be right, instead look for the right answer. How can you possibly be right when everything from past history and economics tells us not to make the loans in the first place.

Simple question - If you are correct then why aren't we doing what you say now?
Maybe you should be the one manipulating the economy, you'll save us right?

 

[NoDrama]

do tell......

Why? You wouldn't understand.

Sorry it took so long to reply, my kid fell out of a tree and got pretty scraped up.

 

[NoDrama]

. if the banks weren't able to sell these loans off they wouldn't have money to keep lending.

This part of your statement doesn't make any sense to me, can you elaborate please?
It seems to me you are saying that the banks make loans and then from the money they have made off that loan they then can lend that money out. Maybe its just worded wrong, I don't know, perhaps you can clear it up some.

 

[dukeanthony]

This part of your statement doesn't make any sense to me, can you elaborate please?
It seems to me you are saying that the banks make loans and then from the money they have made off that loan they then can lend that money out. Maybe its just worded wrong, I don't know, perhaps you can clear it up some.

Yes its a pretty simple concept
Banks make loans then sell them
They then use the profits to make more loans
Sell them
Repeat

 

[londonfog]

Why? You wouldn't understand.

Sorry it took so long to reply, my kid fell out of a tree and got pretty scraped up.

hope little guy is all right....next time you climb first and show how its done....I actually was serious when I wanted you to explian

 

[NoDrama]

Yes its a pretty simple concept
Banks make loans then sell them
They then use the profits to make more loans
Sell them
Repeat

Thats not how banks work at all duke. They do not really pay out loans from the money they receive as deposits or profits. If they did this, no additional money would be created. What they do when they make loans is to accept promissory notes in exchange for credits to the borrowers' transaction accounts. Loans (assets) and deposits (liabilities) both rise. Reserves are unchanged by the loan transactions. But the deposit credits constitute new additions to the total deposits of the banking system.

Money is debt, someone elses debt had to come into existence for every dollar to come into existence.