reality check

[undertheice]

since fog found the obama vs. paul poll not to his liking, i thought i might put one up that has options aimed more at his sort of philosophy. it's a very limited time offer, so get your choices in now.

 

[mame]

Maybe you need a reality check, in fact... I'll take on all of you libertarian types that keep on calling Obama a communist socialist muslim kenyan etc etc...

First, what are we calling right and left? You can't say libertarianism is the only "right" while mainstream Republicans and Democrats are all of the "left" because libertarianism is actually considered a far right idealogy by most people who have ever studied political science. The idea that Obama is a socialist, the Republicans are the middle and Ron Paul is the only true right candidate is really quite laughable, except for some reason on these boards (obviously due to the unusually high number of libertarians here).

What I'd consider the middle is based on the party line; This is actually how it's usually defined anyway, so lets call this the best measure of "right/left" in any given country. Besides, it's the independents that decide elections, right? Looking at it like this, instead of with your very rosy glasses - you make observations like the fact that Nixon governed left of center and that the conservative god Ronald Reagan was actually a pretty "establishment" type center-right Republican, quite moderate in practice; Eisenhower was the same way. Now, just as Nixon governed from the center-left - Obama has been governing largely from a center-right position... He has been compared to Nixon frequently, his rhetoric about government debt levels is actually very Hoover-like, and his most liberal peice of legislation was considered the conservative alternative to single payer nationalized insurance(until ofc it was passed by a democrat - then it's convieniently socialism!), he even dropped the Public option...

Here's a short list of his more conservative positions:

• His stimulus bill was half the size that his advisers thought necessary;
• He continued Bush’s war and national security policies without change and even retained Bush’s defense secretary;
• He put forward a health plan almost identical to those that had been supported by Republicans such as Mitt Romney in the recent past, pointedly rejecting the single-payer option favored by liberals;
• He caved to conservative demands that the Bush tax cuts be extended without getting any quid pro quo whatsoever;
• And in the past few weeks he has supported deficit reductions that go far beyond those offered by Republicans.

Furthermore, check out these concessions that Obama would've made to Beohner, things congressional Democrats have consistently fought against:

Among the provisions Obama to which Obama had said yes, according to a senior administration official, were the following:

Medicare: Raising the eligibility age, imposing higher premiums for upper income beneficiaries, changing the cost-sharing structure, and shifting Medigap insurance in ways that would likely reduce first-dollar coverage. This was to generate about $250 billion in ten-year savings. This was virtually identical to what Boehner offered.

Medicaid: Significant reductions in the federal contribution along with changes in taxes on providers, resulting in lower spending that would likely curb eligibility or benefits. This was to yield about $110 billion in savings. Boehner had sought more: About $140 billion. But that’s the kind of gap ongoing negotiation could close.

Social Security: Changing the formula for calculating cost-of-living increases in order to reduce future payouts. The idea was to close the long-term solvency gap by one-third, although it likely would have taken more than just this one reform to produce enough savings for that.

Discretionary spending: A cut in discretionary spending equal to $1.2 trillion over ten years, some of them coming in fiscal year 2012. The remaining differences here, over the timing of such cuts, were tiny.

And here's the typical progressive response to our pragmatic president's dealmaking:

established in both Democrats’ and Republicans’ minds the thought that Obama was a weak negotiator—a “pushover.” He was more widely seen among Democrats and other close observers as having a strategy of starting near where he thinks the Republicans are—at the fifty-yard line—and then moving closer to their position.(source)

really, I could go on and on about how the left has disagreed with Obama over and over, but you'll still call him a socialist so whatever; You may reject this post, but it doesn't make it any less true.


How's that for a reality check?

 

[Mr Neutron]

Maybe you need a reality check...
First, what are we calling right and left?

You are limiting yourself in your perception. It's not just left/right.
Did Abe Lincoln really say "that is cool"?

 

[Mr Neutron]

Maybe you need a reality check...
First, what are we calling right and left?

You are limiting yourself in your perception. It's not just left/right.
Did Abe Lincoln really say "that is cool"?

 

[jeff f]

i picked stalin cuz he has been at room temperature for a long time and i dont think he could do much harm

i gotta hand it to you, they are some pretty good choices for a lefty poll.

did you read any of his speech to le raza today? community shit stirrer in chief. nobody i have ever seen has consistently taken the us vs them position against his own citizens.

if you arent a democrat, you are clearly an enemy to him.

here, check this

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/07/25/obama.la.raza/

 

[UncleBuck]

You are limiting yourself in your perception. It's not just left/right.
Did Abe Lincoln really say "that is cool"?

my question exactly!

i find that hard to believe

 

[mame]

http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/cooper.htm

 

[londonfog]

since fog found the obama vs. paul poll not to his liking, i thought i might put one up that has options aimed more at his sort of philosophy. it's a very limited time offer, so get your choices in now.

I always thought you were one that took the time to consider things before you typed...shortest post I have ever seen you type and with it you go and show how foolish one could be...my suggestion was to put up a poll with all the candidates running to be named, so we can actually get a feel of who the people would vote for, but I think we all know why you people refuse to do that..instead you go and put up a poll using dead people..I guess you wanted to show that yes you can be stupid too....Good job...oh yeah FUCK YOU and your poll...and remember you have to defend my right to tell you such

 

[Johnnyorganic]

I went with Chairman Mao. He killed more of his own people.

Uncle Joe was was the runner up and very close on the kill-your-own-people scale, but he was batshit crazy.

As a Doctor, even Che would have despised MessiahCare. Number three.

Obama? No fucking way!

 

[txpete77]

I pulled the lever for Che... 'Cause like, you know, uh, like he is like, so cool!

 

[Luger187]

i dont understand this communism shit. can someone explain to me how obama is a communist?

 

[NoDrama]

A dead president would most likely do a better job of leading the country. I'm dead serious.

 

[cannabisguru]

I didn't vote on the poll because none of those people sound fit to be President of this wonderful country and super-power that we call the United States.

Obama sure as hell can't do it.. he's already proved that to us and himself. So we def. don't need Obama for a second term as President.. period.

And I have no idea who those other people are.. so yeah, I'm gonna have to say 'None of the Above'.

And with the way its looking for this country.. which, things aren't looking good. The economy is already gone to shit.... there are no jobs out there anymore, they're moving everything to China these days, which is screwing American citizens out of good jobs. They're only doing it because its cheaper to produce and manufacture merchandise in China. But at the same time, its helping China and its economy thrive and grow.. while ours suffer!!! Fucking bullshit if you ask me. What happened to 'The American Dream'?!?! It's gone.. plain and simple, its gone. I use to believe in this country.. I use to believe that we were truly free in this country.. but as I've gotten older and watched the world around me.. I've noticed that things are changing at an unbelievable rate. But back to the main subject here.. if the U.S. does indeed default on its defecit... its going to be absolute political suicide! Not only that.. but my God man, look a the economy right now here in the U.S. - It absolutely SUCKS!.. and if the U.S. does default on its deficit... then its going to just go to complete udder shit. I mean, you think things are bad now??!?! Yeah, just see what happens when the U.S. fails to come to an agreement for its deficits.. things will be 100x times worse than they are currently.

Let's all just hope for the best. I honestly felt and still do kinda feel/think that Congress will come up with a solution, that both parties can agree on.. and we can get things rolling again.. and continue to focus on rebuilding this country. That's the other thing that pisses me off.. we've been spending over 10 million dollars, PER DAY... fighting against the terrorist and terrorist groups overseas.. 10 million PER DAY people. We've been over there fighting now for what.. 10 years now?!?! I mean holy shit man.. its time for our troops to come home. We killed Bin Laden.. which was our main goal... so lets stop worrying about building a nation overseas... and lets focus on rebuilding our own fucking country!! Fuck them.. let them build their own country/nation. We went there with one goal.. it took us almost 11 years to get it done.. but we got it done and its now fucking time to bring home all of our troops.. and let them deal with building their own nation/country. That's not our place to be doing that. Sure, its all good to help other people.. thats all fine and dandy, but when we continue to stay there, even after the main goal has been completed.. its doing nothing but eating up money each and every minute we're there, trying to rebuild their nation, meanwhile our OWN COUNTRY is put on the back-burner. Well, our country has been put on the 'back-burner' for almost 11 years now. It's time to bring our troops home.. so that we can start rebuilding and repairing our OWN country!

I mean, my God man.. this shit isn't rocket science!!!! I mean seriously! My 15 year old niece could do a better job than Obama and his administration combined!! And thats the honest Gods truth too! I've never in my life.. seen so many brainless fucks, grouped all together in my life... not ever.

Its simple and I'll break it down for everyone, one last time:

We went to Afghanistan in search of Osama Bin Laden. We couldn't find him.. but we didn't give up either. We kept looking and looking for him.. and while in search of this man, our soldiers and troops fought these terrorist each and every day.. in hopes of finding the 9/11 mastermind. After almost 11 years.. we finally get the intelligence briefing that let us know that Osama had been seen/located/spotted. We deployed 'TEAM 6' and they executed a plan.. the plan was a success and we killed the mastermind of 9/11 - Osama Bin Laden.

Okay.. so since we've accomplished our mission.. commons sense would be to pull our troops out and bring them back home to the United State of America where they belong. The mission is OVER.. the sooner the government and Obama realize this.. the sooner we can bring our troops home.. and the sooner we can start trying to rebuild and repair our own country.. instead of worrying about trying to rebuild Afghanistan. Let them do it.. we've spent MORE than enough money over there searching for the 9/11 mastermind and we got him.. so its time for them to come home now.. so that our troops and our country can start recovering.. and we can start getting people back to work. We won't be spending 10million dollars per day any more.. which will GREATLY help our economy recover.

But until we do those things.. I'm afraid that things are just going to get worse.. they're not going to get better, that's for sure.

peace.

 

[mame]

A dead president would most likely do a better job of leading the country. I'm dead serious.

Well to be fair, this is the least productive congress in at least a few generations (that statistic is something along the lines of this congress has gotten less done than any other congress except the the 54th? congress which was about the same).

Obstructionism is fun!

 

[NoDrama]

Default would be the best thing for the economy. Tell the bankers to pound sand. Iceland defaulted, Iceland has one of the quickest growing economies in the world now.

 

[NoDrama]

Well to be fair, this is the least productive congress in at least a few generations (that statistic is something along the lines of this congress has gotten less done than any other congress except the the 54th? congress which was about the same).

Obstructionism is fun!

I agree wholly. If Congress was made up of dead people, we would probably have the greatest country in the world again.

 

[londonfog]

be careful what you say people make take it the wrong way...

 

[UncleBuck]

Default would be the best thing for the economy. Tell the bankers to pound sand. Iceland defaulted, Iceland has one of the quickest growing economies in the world now.

weren't you the first to tell lefties during the health care debate that we can't use other countries as a point of reference?

for example, we would bring up some european country and talk about how they insured all of their citizens, not just some, for less than we do. and you'd be quick to tell us we can't make that comparison because america ain't european country x, y or z.

well, i'm happy to throw it right back at ya. america ain't iceland, comparison is unfair, and you are a dullard.

 

[NoDrama]

weren't you the first to tell lefties during the health care debate that we can't use other countries as a point of reference?

for example, we would bring up some european country and talk about how they insured all of their citizens, not just some, for less than we do. and you'd be quick to tell us we can't make that comparison because america ain't european country x, y or z.

well, i'm happy to throw it right back at ya. america ain't iceland, comparison is unfair, and you are a dullard.

Wasn't me, now you just look like an asshole who can't tell the difference from one poster to the next.

 

[Prefontaine]

I picked Che cause we need a leader for the revolt, and I think his experience is most applicable