Largely underestimated variable

J.W.

Well-Known Member
I thought I'd start a thread on a subject that doesn't get discussed much, but is actually an integral part of growing any crop, particularly quality cannabis. Everyone knows that crappy water leads to crappy weed, but how many people really know why? Also, how many people spend money and go to great lengths to set up awesome grow areas with top notch soils and nutes, only to skimp out on the only thing more used by their plant in photosynthesis than light: H20.
I, personally, have always heard that water was important, so I blindly followed some safe rules; I used tap water for much of the plants' lives, but always let it sit out for at least 24 hours to let the chlorine evaporate, always used the cold tap at a slow pace to fill my watering jugs up to avoid rust and heavy metals, and always used distilled water for germination, clones, seedlings, and flushing before harvest. I didn't really know what these minerals, metals, and rust found in tap water do to plants -- and more importantly growing medium -- so I did a little digging, and there's some interesting things I'd like to share, through my weed-minded interpretation. First off, if you use plain tap water that's sat out at least a day, do you check the pH every time? Not only is tap water inconsistent when it comes to pH, but I think many people will find that their tap water is often acidic. Also, as many may already know, organic nutrients release N slowly over time, and as the N breaks down, only N in the form of NH4+ or NO3- can be used by the plant; more has to be fed to make it to to the plant's cells. Furthermore, Nitrogen degrades more readily AND is more easily leached through the soil than P or K, which is why many farmers of other crops intercrop with legumes and other N holding crops, to keep organic sources of N in the soil. Anything other than H20 in the water plays a huge part in retention and displacement of N in the soil.
As we all know, flowering Cannabis LOVES its P. Phosphorus during peak flowering is almost endlessly used by the plant. Plants extract P from the growing medium in the form of orthophosphate ion, such as H2PO4- or HPO4-. Phosphorus is much competed for between soil minerals and the plant's root system, and when P is free in the soil solution, the soil usually wins. Iron oxides, aluminum oxides, and other minerals in the soil latch onto free phosphorus through a process known as "sorption". Once this happens, the P is unavailable for plant uptake. If your cannabis plant's water is full of these oxides, much of the P you're feeding is not making it to the plant. Just the inconsistency of the battle between soil and plant for P would probably confuse the hell out of us growers, as we'd wonder why our plants are so wishy-washy. Also, the heavy metals found in most tap water do not leach out much, so they build up more and more from each watering. The good news is, is that the P builds up, too, as it doesn't leach as well as Nitrogen, but it takes some experience and trial and error to feed different strains how they prefer, as we all know.
Potassium, or "K", is also needed in fairly large amounts, much like N. K is used by all plants for water retention in cells, immunities to diseases and pests, stem strength and rigidity, and can even play a part in how well a plant's fruit(dank weed) ripens and lasts after harvesting. K is easily leached, also much like N, and adding Cal-Mag to cannabis not only gives them Calcium and Magnesium uptake, but this Calcium and Magnesium in the soil also displaces Potassium(K) in the medium. Potassium deficiency makes plants look sickly, and causes leaves to spot, leaf tips to scorch, and the leaves and eventually the plant to weaken and die. Most people don't have too much of a problem with K in Cannabis, but it is nonetheless important.
The point of all my stoned rambling here is that water plays a big part, as it's not only essential to the plant, but for many weed growers it is the vehicle by which they deliver their nutrients. Other elements of the water also play a huge part in how the soil retains these nutrients, and if they're available for plant uptake. With organic farming, there is a lot going on in the soil, and to make sure these organic amendments are retained an used by the plant, our water must be as pure as possible. Until I really looked into it, I had no idea! I'd like to use distilled water all the time, but wouldn't be able to afford it. I may invest in some decent filtration device, just to see if this impacts my grows.
Since this was in my own words, a lot of it may seem like opinion. I can't cite where I got all of the info, as this was a combination of previous knowledge, one of my grow books, and an online source, but much of what I found was on the online source, such as the info on sorption and organic nutrient uptake:

http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/pnm15.pdf

Comments and thoughts are always welcome. I'd like to hear people's water sources and what they think about it in general.
 

businessmen

Active Member
I moved recently and my water is harder then before. I think it caused a terrible nutrient lockout in my plants. Couldnt believe it. I think the high TDS in the water made it so any nutes I gave pushed the total TDS past what the plant could tolerate. And it then couldnt take up anything. I dont know how anybody grows anything around here if that was really what happened. BTW legumes are grown on farms because the pull N from the atmosphere and put it in the ground for themselves, and they make a surplus so other plants can use it next season. They dont work by holding N in the soil. Other then the N they create in the soil. Its a synbiotic relationship with bacteria that grow on their roots, little balls you can see. The bacteria pull the nitrogen from the air (N is the most common gas)
 

Drunkinop420

Active Member
This thread was really help full....I have a Potassium and or Nitrogen problem with one of my plants....and i didnt know why.....this cleared things up alot. I always figured water was water just as long as the ph was right. thanks bro hope you keep posting more useful info!!!
 

J.W.

Well-Known Member
BTW legumes are grown on farms because the pull N from the atmosphere and put it in the ground for themselves, and they make a surplus so other plants can use it next season. They dont work by holding N in the soil. Other then the N they create in the soil. Its a synbiotic relationship with bacteria that grow on their roots, little balls you can see. The bacteria pull the nitrogen from the air (N is the most common gas)
Right. I could've worded it better, but legumes made a huge difference with crop size when I saw a study done at Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College in south Georgia about ten years ago. The rows with legumes in between were much more lush and green, and larger as well. All because of the legumes' microbes enriching the soil with the Nitrogen it produced. It's year-round, too. The process is called "Nitrogen fixation", I believe, but it's not relative to indoor Cannabis growers, so I left out much detail. I have not personally worked with legumes anyway, so my knowledge is limited on that.
 

PhatColas

Member
I agree water quality is very important.
.
These days alot of city water systems are using chloramides, which do not evaporate. These chloramides, kill micro-life and require chemical removal or a RO water filtration system, to be removed.
.
This is one reason I use rainwater, collected in a 50 gallon rain barrel, which I oxygenate with a small fish tank air pump.
.
The TDS runs under 80 ppm on average, and the pH is between 5.8 and 6.2 most of the time.
.
The best part, it's free.
.
 

jas6118

Well-Known Member
in socal the acidity of the water is worse after a good rainfall, normally my water in right around neutral, but during the rainy season it drops to about 4.9-5.5....acid rain
 

Handson

Active Member
I boil mine, then let it cool down. :)

Sounds mad but if you have a glass of the unboiled it has a chlorine taste.
 

Handson

Active Member
I agree water quality is very important.
.
These days alot of city water systems are using chloramides, which do not evaporate. These chloramides, kill micro-life and require chemical removal or a RO water filtration system, to be removed.
.
This is one reason I use rainwater, collected in a 50 gallon rain barrel, which I oxygenate with a small fish tank air pump.
.
The TDS runs under 80 ppm on average, and the pH is between 5.8 and 6.2 most of the time.
.
The best part, it's free.
.

I like the sound of that
 

businessmen

Active Member
in socal the acidity of the water is worse after a good rainfall, normally my water in right around neutral, but during the rainy season it drops to about 4.9-5.5....acid rain
What? Thats crazy where are they getting water in S Cal thats acid and straight from rain. Its usually horribly alkaline and sitting in resevoirs or aquifers collecting "hardness"
 

PlantManBee

Well-Known Member
What? Thats crazy where are they getting water in S Cal thats acid and straight from rain.
rain water is more or less acidic according to the contaminants in the atmosphere. I know it pretty much always has carbonic acid in it. using rainwater from time to time will help get rid of salt buildup due to this :bigjoint:
 
I have well water and it need softening, so little did I know the salt in my water softener was killing my plants and went through 2 grows befor I got this under control with some RO water. all is fine now
 

racerboy71

bud bootlegger
I have well water and it need softening, so little did I know the salt in my water softener was killing my plants and went through 2 grows befor I got this under control with some RO water. all is fine now
man does that ever suck.. glad to hear you got it figured out now though. good stuff..
my tap water comes out extremely basic.. about 8.6 or so.. i leave it out for atleast 24 hours before i even think about using it..
i have a ? that is a lil off topic, but not really.. i have heard that when you add ph up or down, that you should than let the water sit for atleast a half an hour and recheck the ph as its slow acting and if you use it too soon, your ph may not be where you thought it was... is there any truth to this?
 

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
man does that ever suck.. glad to hear you got it figured out now though. good stuff..
my tap water comes out extremely basic.. about 8.6 or so.. i leave it out for atleast 24 hours before i even think about using it..
i have a ? that is a lil off topic, but not really.. i have heard that when you add ph up or down, that you should than let the water sit for atleast a half an hour and recheck the ph as its slow acting and if you use it too soon, your ph may not be where you thought it was... is there any truth to this?
True.:weed:

The chemical interaction is not instantaneous and takes some time to complete.

Wet
 

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
I agree water quality is very important.
.
These days alot of city water systems are using chloramides, which do not evaporate. These chloramides, kill micro-life and require chemical removal or a RO water filtration system, to be removed.
.
This is one reason I use rainwater, collected in a 50 gallon rain barrel, which I oxygenate with a small fish tank air pump.
.
The TDS runs under 80 ppm on average, and the pH is between 5.8 and 6.2 most of the time.
.
The best part, it's free.
.
Chloramines do not need an RO filter to remove. Carbon filters are the best method. I use 2 carbon block filters in front of my RO membrane, a 5 micron then a 1 micron.
 

J.W.

Well-Known Member
I don't wait much after adjusting either, as I've waited before just to see, and the changes were marginal, if at all. Not too mention dragging something out like checking pH sucks!!! haha. Probably depends on a lot of other factors besides time, IMO. Also, the critical thing to worry bout when adjusting pH up or down is to know that each time you add adjusters, your electrical conductivity -- or EC -- goes up. No way around it. Some don't worry about EC. I'm not one of those people. I don't get fanatical about it, I just figure that it's easier to dump out water/teas if I can't get the pH right after a couple tries rather than risk it. Best not to worry about it. Or, you can check the EC yourself, if you really want to get into it. Hope this helps more,

J Dub
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
I don't wait much after adjusting either, as I've waited before just to see, and the changes were marginal, if at all. Not too mention dragging something out like checking pH sucks!!! haha. Probably depends on a lot of other factors besides time, IMO. Also, the critical thing to worry bout when adjusting pH up or down is to know that each time you add adjusters, your electrical conductivity -- or EC -- goes up. No way around it. Some don't worry about EC. I'm not one of those people. I don't get fanatical about it, I just figure that it's easier to dump out water/teas if I can't get the pH right after a couple tries rather than risk it. Best not to worry about it. Or, you can check the EC yourself, if you really want to get into it. Hope this helps more,

J Dub
My EC does go up after I adjust pH but only a little bit. If you overshoot your pH in either direction, you shouldn't keep titrating up and down. Whenever you mix an acid and a base a chemical reaction occurs. You typically get heat, water, and a solvated salt. Too many salts in your feed solution and growing medium can buildup causing lockout and some can even be toxic to your plants. There are many different pH up and down solutions available to the hobby grower. I like to use as strong of a solution as I can to minimize the effect on EC. :weed:

Keep it green!
 
Top