Blueprints for grow room.. need opinions.

[mr4tune]

This drawing is way better than the first design you had.

Okay so you need a few things most of what you have.

1:Sealed and separate cooling system for lights... Intake outside room dump outside room. It's a passthrough system. For 2 1000s run an 8' with a piece of pantyhose or something to filter the incoming air

2: Air exchange for room, filter your intake and use spring dampers on both intake and exhaust lines. On 10x10 rooms I use an 8" blower for the intake, (you can use passive intake but I prefer more control and over engineering.) On the exhaust side I use 10" blowers. With your dimensions you may be able to use a 6 inch intake with 8" exhaust.

install your door so it opens outward, you want your ears to pop when you open it. I aim to pull a vacuum in the room to mitigate smell and for CO2 enrichment.

Why do you have a room with negative pressure if your running co2?

 

[PioneerValleyOG]

Come on guys lets not set him up for failure here...

For starters the other guys right, your going to need a sub panel installed or use a product like the "power thief" that will allow you to plug into a 220 dryer outlet in order to have a 4-plug outlet for all your lights.

As for your plants, you aren't going to want to use 12 plants from seed under 4k's bro. That's an utter waste with 4k's to be honest. Seed to flower is for SOG and micro setups. Your going to want to veg... flip at 1.5 - 2' and train with a net to get an even canopy... seed to flower and your pissing in the wind...

Also no need for there to be a filter on your intake. Pointless to scrub air going in and all its going to do is choke off your intake velocity. Your also not going to cool your lights with the way your ventilation setups are run. You need a separate extraction fan for your filter in the room, and then another separate ducting run for your lights. Air takes the path of least resistance so your flow will not be equal how it is.

Other guys also right on the condensation. You can expel hot air with an insulated line no different than your dryer vent for your house, but brining in that cold of air will be a nightmare and your have water dripping from your venting and into your hoods which is a big no no.. You appear to already have a lung room/space by looking at the far right side of your drawing... you need to draw you air from your hoods from the space beside the room. This is called a lung room. That will cut out the dripping venting runs.

6" IMO are for 600's or single lights. If it was me, I'd be running air cooled hoods with 8" ducting connections. Run an 8" inline fan on the end of each run sucking from outside that room (not outside) through the lights, thru the fan, and out the room up the chimney. As for the filter and the fan scrubbing the room and extracting the heat? You'd be wise to do minimum 8" but realistically 10". Its all a guessing game in the winter, but with your air cooled hoods your really better off to go sealed and install a portable AC unit as trying to tie in x3 ducting lines into your chimney will be a pain in the ass.

I've run a similar setup so I've learned from a few things...

I was waiting for someone to say something. Im no indoor expert but (have some friends that are) I do know everything you say is on the money, Also, if I was to just say one thing, doesnt 12 plants seem like a lot for a 7x7x8? You did the right thing coming here Pauly, guys like mr4 can save you a lot of headaches, disasters, and money that one can only avoid with experience. Always good to see somebody passionate about growing. And also see somebody step up and let another know when something is a little off. Kudos Mr4

 

[mr4tune]

have you not considered led lighting? substantially reduced electrical requirements, as well as dramatically reducing heat. and therefore the need for all that lighting ventilation? you could then maybe use your original chimney path for exhaust? just curious if led’s were a possible solution to the two biggest flaws mr4tune pointed out. (i wonder his thoughts on led’s too)

Your right on point with the LED's dude, however most new guys can't afford the bill upfront. I just started converting my setup over to LED's and I'll honestly never go back to HPS/MH/CMH. I'm running 650w 8 bar panels now and they are unlike anything I have run before. They are 25% of the heat (if that) of my CMH's. If you can afford the upfront cost, they are the best option IMO. I jumped on the CMH train for a bit since I read all the hype, but the heat is bullshit since you can't air cool them.

He's got 3 options... Run a sealed setup with AC and co2 (Scrub the air in the room only and use window for a window banger AC or put in a minisplit ideally), go passive and use a setup like what Treespiker is saying, or dump the coin and go with LED where he could do either passive or co2 injection and most likely not even need AC.

Idk where he's at location wise and how temps do there but like I said before, you can go and do all the work of setting up a passive system with a lung room and it'll work great for the fall/winter. But if your summer temps get retarded you run the risk of having issues with 4 1k's lol. Even if you switch to running your lights at night. So many variables so more info is needed by the OP. Your room temps will be dictated by the lung room and the lung room temps will be at the mercy of the temps outside (with the help of a few factors such as if your below ground in a basement, etc.)

The way your drawing is now is "much gooder" as my grandfather use to say. Suck the air from the room through the carbon filter and out the window. Hook it up to a $50 Inkbird temp controller so you can control your temps and also increase your humidity as needed in the cycle off times. Dump the venting from the lights up the chimney. Whammo your golden so long as the lung room keeps up.

Once again to reiterate, there is no need to put a carbon filter on the intake side of the lung room wall.. You can do panty hose if you want but realistically I see no point in doing it but to each their own...

 

[mr4tune]

I was waiting for someone to say something. Im no indoor expert but (have some friends that are) I do know everything you say is on the money, Also, if I was to just say one thing, doesnt 12 plants seem like a lot for a 7x7x8? You did the right thing coming here Pauly, guys like mr4 can save you a lot of headaches, disasters, and money that one can only avoid with experience. Always good to see somebody passionate about growing. And also see somebody step up and let another know when something is a little off. Kudos Mr4

Holy shit I didn't even see he said 7x7 lmfao. Yeah thats alot of light for x4 1k's omg. Good call pointing that out dude.

Access, humidity, and coverage are factors that seem to get overlooked...

A single 1k over a 4x4 is pretty intense how it is. Most guys in multi-light setups with 1k's are using a 5x5 footprint.. Your also going to have lighting overlap from using multiple lights so the intensity will be even greater... Now that I see the room measurements, your footprint per light is 3.5x3.5 which is overkill by quite a bit even if using only one light. I honestly think your better to go with 600w's, or run x2 1k's and leave yourself aisles on either side of the room. With 1k's in that little amount of space your margins for error and environment control are minimal. It's going to be quite the juggling act.

To explain it, consider available space... Your ceiling height is 8'. If your lights are maxed out at the ceiling, your going to have the distance from light to canopy (which depending on who you ask / and your venting temps thru lights) can be anywhere from 12" - 30". So lets say even 24" for a reference point. Add in a minimum 1' for the height of your pots. Then the height of your fixtures so say another 1'. Add those up and we have 4'. You only have 4' left over to grow plants with. So if you hit everything correctly with your stretch, you have only 24" from your canopy to the fixtures, and then the space in between the fixtures obviously. We all know warm air rises. So that "cushion" space you have left over for air to circulate and rise is minimal to say the least. This means your have zero wiggle room. The bonus of having lots of space within your room(s) is that you have more of a buffer zone for temps. No space = temp / humidity levels that drastically spike with the drop of a hat. The bigger the room, ceiling height, and space not being used by lights, the slower these factors will rise.

It's honestly a pain in the ass it is to have a room jam packed with plants and not have any wiggle room to access them. It's doable dont get me wrong, it's just a nightmare once the plants get bigger.. I've run a few rooms early on where I did this and ended up having to carry half the plants out into the lung room just to be able to access the plants at the back of the room. Be prepared for this and know well ahead of time how you will train and support the branches once they are loaded with buds, and how you plan to access the room to water. Pots of soil with tomato cages seems to be the most viable option for being able to support and move shit around but that's just my opinion. That being said, how will you collect your run off? Food for thought.

As for power, your going to have multiple wall fans, inline fans, and lights so make sure you have the capacity for everything prior to installing your panel. Good idea to have a plan for humidity levels during lights off, especially during flower. Regardless of what setup you decide to do, you have 2 options to deal with the humidity. You can run your filter and inline fan all night (or on an inkbird humidity controller) but that will still draw the cold air in from the lung room. If you do that you either need to now heat the lung room up using a space heater or juggling your homes thermostat. I wouldn't advise putting the heater in the grow room unless you have it setup to not roast the plants. Better to have it outside and make the temp transition less intense. This is an added cost regardless of how you look at it. Take into consideration that high levels of humidity will fuck the carbon in your filter at an accelerated rate. The heat produced by the heater in the lung room would dry the air though which would help balance the humidity inside the flower room.

The other option is to have a properly sized dehumidifier in the room. That's going to add some heat, as well as extra cost onto your power bill.

Sorry for another novel. Hard to put this all into point form.

 

[PioneerValleyOG]

Holy shit I didn't even see he said 7x7 lmfao. Yeah thats allot of light for x4 1k's omg. Not to mention the juggling act of having to move plants around for access. Good call dude.

Yeah, I was thinking two would be sufficient, but as I said, Im no expert on indoor, but some of my friends are. I have a friend with i believe a 6x6 and he uses one Gavita and does 6 plants and has very good success. He has a veg area with a smaller table set up and LEDs until the clones get to about 1.5-2 ft, then puts them in the tent. I just installed a new vent fan for that set-up. See if I can find some pics

 

[PioneerValleyOG]

So here is a (not so good pic) of a 6x6 with 6 plants, although you can only see half of them, that thing on the left is an oscillating fan, but if your talking only another foot and twice as many plants, I just cant see it...

Other two pics are more my specialty, this is 12 plants growing outside...

 

[mr4tune]

Yeah, I was thinking two would be sufficient, but as I said, Im no expert on indoor, but some of my friends are. I have a friend with i believe a 6x6 and he uses one Gavita and does 6 plants and has very good success. He has a veg area with a smaller table set up and LEDs until the clones get to about 1.5-2 ft, then puts them in the tent. I just installed a new vent fan for that set-up. See if I can find some pics

By Gavita's Im assuming your talking about the double ended fixtures ya? I was running x12 of those 1k DE fixtures in each of our rooms with a 5x5 footprint and it was pretty nuts. Those things are beyond powerful, but they are legit commercial horticulture lights intended to be that way. Sounds like your bro has a decent setup. That's what it's all about.. Finding what works for you and fills your needs in between crops.

I really don't think that x4 1k's is a good idea for the OP. It either has to be x4 600's or the 2 1k's down the center and some room to access. Running 4k in that small of a space is a recipe for disaster. The 600's would still give a packed room. I should have looked at his measurements closer. Even in a 10x10 4k is a juggle. I'd like to follow this guy's journey and see success at the finish line rather than failure half way through...

 

[PioneerValleyOG]

By Gavita's Im assuming your talking about the double ended fixtures ya? I was running x12 of those 1k DE fixtures in each of our rooms with a 5x5 footprint and it was pretty nuts. Those things are beyond powerful, but they are legit commercial horticulture lights intended to be that way. Sounds like your bro has a decent setup. That's what it's all about.. Finding what works for you and fills your needs in between crops.

I really don't think that x4 1k's is a good idea for the OP. It either has to be x4 600's or the 2 1k's down the center and some room to access. Running 4k in that small of a space is a recipe for disaster. The 600's would still give a packed room. I should have looked at his measurements closer. Even in a 10x10 4k is a juggle. I'd like to follow this guy's journey and see success at the finish line rather than failure half way through...

Couldnt agree with you more,

 

[Pauly1118]

Thanks for the reply’s everybody. I’m soaking up everybody advice. The reason I said 12 plants is because I live in Michigan and that is the legal limit. Using 2x 1000’s would actually be better for me and save me Atleast $400-500 in light/ballast cost. I’m growing in the basement.. exact measurement of the room is 7 foot 9 inches X 7 foot 8 inches with a height of 6 foot 10 inches Also, the summers aren’t too hot here but you never know with Michigan... 90 degrees is usually The peak tho but here’s a picture of what’s to come

I also planned on growing in 7 gallon non woven grow bags with 70/30 coco coir / perlite.. would that be okay ?

 

[Pauly1118]

I’m a contractor/carpenter so I built the room myself ( framed and drywalled ) and will wrap it completely with panda film. I’m also going to install a new circuit breaker and run all new boxes and wires so that’ll save me from hiring an electrician. So my budget for lights, fans, nutes, growing medium, etc is around $1000 at the moment. I’m biding on a job right now and could possibly be making around 1200-1500 for that so if I land that job then I can put quite a bit of that into the room.

 

[Pauly1118]

Holy shit I didn't even see he said 7x7 lmfao. Yeah thats alot of light for x4 1k's omg. Good call pointing that out dude.

Access, humidity, and coverage are factors that seem to get overlooked...

A single 1k over a 4x4 is pretty intense how it is. Most guys in multi-light setups with 1k's are using a 5x5 footprint.. Your also going to have lighting overlap from using multiple lights so the intensity will be even greater... Now that I see the room measurements, your footprint per light is 3.5x3.5 which is overkill by quite a bit even if using only one light. I honestly think your better to go with 600w's, or run x2 1k's and leave yourself aisles on either side of the room. With 1k's in that little amount of space your margins for error and environment control are minimal. It's going to be quite the juggling act.

To explain it, consider available space... Your ceiling height is 8'. If your lights are maxed out at the ceiling, your going to have the distance from light to canopy (which depending on who you ask / and your venting temps thru lights) can be anywhere from 12" - 30". So lets say even 24" for a reference point. Add in a minimum 1' for the height of your pots. Then the height of your fixtures so say another 1'. Add those up and we have 4'. You only have 4' left over to grow plants with. So if you hit everything correctly with your stretch, you have only 24" from your canopy to the fixtures, and then the space in between the fixtures obviously. We all know warm air rises. So that "cushion" space you have left over for air to circulate and rise is minimal to say the least. This means your have zero wiggle room. The bonus of having lots of space within your room(s) is that you have more of a buffer zone for temps. No space = temp / humidity levels that drastically spike with the drop of a hat. The bigger the room, ceiling height, and space not being used by lights, the slower these factors will rise.

It's honestly a pain in the ass it is to have a room jam packed with plants and not have any wiggle room to access them. It's doable dont get me wrong, it's just a nightmare once the plants get bigger.. I've run a few rooms early on where I did this and ended up having to carry half the plants out into the lung room just to be able to access the plants at the back of the room. Be prepared for this and know well ahead of time how you will train and support the branches once they are loaded with buds, and how you plan to access the room to water. Pots of soil with tomato cages seems to be the most viable option for being able to support and move shit around but that's just my opinion. That being said, how will you collect your run off? Food for thought.

As for power, your going to have multiple wall fans, inline fans, and lights so make sure you have the capacity for everything prior to installing your panel. Good idea to have a plan for humidity levels during lights off, especially during flower. Regardless of what setup you decide to do, you have 2 options to deal with the humidity. You can run your filter and inline fan all night (or on an inkbird humidity controller) but that will still draw the cold air in from the lung room. If you do that you either need to now heat the lung room up using a space heater or juggling your homes thermostat. I wouldn't advise putting the heater in the grow room unless you have it setup to not roast the plants. Better to have it outside and make the temp transition less intense. This is an added cost regardless of how you look at it. Take into consideration that high levels of humidity will fuck the carbon in your filter at an accelerated rate. The heat produced by the heater in the lung room would dry the air though which would help balance the humidity inside the flower room.

The other option is to have a properly sized dehumidifier in the room. That's going to add some heat, as well as extra cost onto your power bill.

Sorry for another novel. Hard to put this all into point form.

what are some good LED lights ? Say if I went with 2 of these for my room ??
When the LED lights say 6000 watts.. but draws only 650 Real wattage and says you can get 2.5 grams per Watt.. does that mean I can only get 650 x 2.5 = 1625 grams ? Which is about 3 1/2 pounds ? Is that true ? So if I used 2 in my 8x8.. I could get around 7 pounds ? Would 2 of these be better than 2x 1000 watt HPS.. ? What would be the pros and cons and would I need a completely different set up ?

 

[mr4tune]

Coco takes allot less medium to grow big plants than it would in soil. I also assumed you had 8' ceilings so. x2 1k's and that will be more than enough and 6x plants under each light for good uniformity. You'll cut your startup cost in half and be allot happier once your room is full, trust me.

You won't be able to afford to go LED with that budget, so start with the HPS and learn off those. I paid $1k CAD per panel off Alibaba, cheaper for the American guys obviously. Don't ever waste your time with an LED that advertises a certain amount of watts yet pulls a much lower "true" wattage. My 8-Bar panels pull 650w from the wall and they are better than my 1k's as the light is even and I can get the panels right on top of the plants with no burning.

Last piece of advice, don't expect to pull numbers that high with crop. Realistically you shouldn't expect anything. Set a goal for yourself but mentally and financially be prepared for a crop loss. Thats's a possibility at anytime, regardless of experience. Shit happens. What separates a good grower from a shitty one is controlling your factors to prevent it in the first place, but know what to do if it does happen..

I'd suggest reading much more of the grow journals section as well as the Grow room design. Asking too many questions will bite you in the ass, especially in the wrong company. Your off to a good start, but do your homework and teach yourself dude. You got this. DM me if you you run into a road bloack and need some help.

 

[mr4tune]

I dunno maybe to keep it in the room Archimedes... Derpa derpa

Why is everyone so antagonistic here? Tell me more how you have negative pressure in your room but aren't sucking any co2 out, or fresh air in at the same time through all the cracks to dissipate the co2 even more. Your the first person I've run into over the years thats running negative pressure in their room with co2, so much so to make the door "pop" or however you reffered to it. You must know something the rest of us don't so please share. I asked a question so idk whats with the response...

 

[Treespiker]

Why is everyone so antagonistic here? Tell me more how you have negative pressure in your room but aren't sucking any co2 out, or fresh air in at the same time through all the cracks to dissipate the co2 even more. Your the first person I've run into over the years thats running negative pressure in their room with co2, so much so to make the door "pop" or however you reffered to it. You must know something the rest of us don't so please share. I asked a question so idk whats with the response...

I know it's spelled r-e-f-e-r-r-e-d...

 

[Treespiker]

Why do you have a room with negative pressure if your running co2?

Smell smell smell you tool

 

[NukaKola]

View attachment 4695495
So I was thinking of using two of these 8” 420 CFM Can fans ..one on each two lights.. and then I was thinking about using the T8 for my carbon filter And exhaust.. and using a T6 for my intake( I would need a filter for this as well, correct ?)

would this be a great set up ? Or is there someway I could go cheaper since the T6/T8 are kinda Hefty price

You definitely don't want to use the booster fans, you need inline fans. The AC Infinity with the thermostats would be nice for the intake/exhaust but you could also buy a cheaper inline fan and separate thermostat.

You could go with these fans, they come with speed controllers.

FANS

AmeriFan Duct Booster Exhaust, for Growing, Hydroponics, Heating, Cooling, Venting, HVAC, Steel, 120V Supply Voltage, 8 Inch, Speed Controlled: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

AmeriFan Duct Booster Exhaust, for Growing, Hydroponics, Heating, Cooling, Venting, HVAC, Steel, 120V Supply Voltage, 8 Inch, Speed Controlled: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

The fan for cooling the lights you don't need a thermostat, just connect it to a timer to run during lights on.

For the intake & exhaust, you can plug both into the same thermostat by using a splitter/power strip.

THERMOSTAT
https://www.amazon.com/Inkbird-Max-1200W-Temperature-Controller-Greenhouse/dp/B01HXM5UAC/ref=sr_1_3?crid=DNMCQCM2E1XE&dchild=1&keywords=inkbird+thermostat&qid=1601181065&sprefix=inkbird+thermo,aps,200&sr=8-3

I would try setting up the room like this, similar to what @mr4tune suggested. 2x 1000w is your best bet with walkways on both sides.




Use a Dust Shroom filter on your intake, it will filter pests and mold/bacteria without restricting much airflow. A carbon filter is really only meant for exhaust as all it does is filter smell and reduces the fans CFM.

INTAKE FILTER

Amazon.com : Horti-Control P 700975 dust Shroom, 8 inch : Plant Germination Equipment : Garden & Outdoor

Amazon.com : Horti-Control P 700975 dust Shroom, 8 inch : Plant Germination Equipment : Garden & Outdoor

www.amazon.com

 

[Pauly1118]

Coco takes allot less medium to grow big plants than it would in soil. I also assumed you had 8' ceilings so. x2 1k's and that will be more than enough and 6x plants under each light for good uniformity. You'll cut your startup cost in half and be allot happier once your room is full, trust me.

You won't be able to afford to go LED with that budget, so start with the HPS and learn off those. I paid $1k CAD per panel off Alibaba, cheaper for the American guys obviously. Don't ever waste your time with an LED that advertises a certain amount of watts yet pulls a much lower "true" wattage. My 8-Bar panels pull 650w from the wall and they are better than my 1k's as the light is even and I can get the panels right on top of the plants with no burning.

Last piece of advice, don't expect to pull numbers that high with crop. Realistically you shouldn't expect anything. Set a goal for yourself but mentally and financially be prepared for a crop loss. Thats's a possibility at anytime, regardless of experience. Shit happens. What separates a good grower from a shitty one is controlling your factors to prevent it in the first place, but know what to do if it does happen..

I'd suggest reading much more of the grow journals section as well as the Grow room design. Asking too many questions will bite you in the ass, especially in the wrong company. Your off to a good start, but do your homework and teach yourself dude. You got this. DM me if you you run into a road bloack and need some help.

man I very much appreciate you taking time From your life typing And explaining your advice to me. Seriously

so anyways, I was thinking the same, start with HPS, keep it simple, something I can handle.. soak up as much information I possibly can and then learn from my mistakes. Also I went and purchased these tonight.. thought it was a pretty decent deal. ($200). 2 are brand new in the box and 2 are lightly used.. I’m leaning towards 4x 600 HPS lights even tho the guy threw in 4x 1000 watt EYE Hortilux bulbs( I’ve seen these are very expensive bulbs). I’ll probably put those up for storage and possibly use them later and buy 4x 600 watt bulbs. I still need 4x ballasts now. Any advice on which ones I should look for ?

 

[mr4tune]

Smell smell smell you tool

This is me calling you out in front of everyone here. You have no idea what your talking about. Both your responses provide no answer to my questions. You even take the time to come and call me out in another thread? Ok man... or should I say kid? I've never pretended to know it all. If I did, I'd end up in situations like your in now where your bullshit has caught up with you and now everyone on here can see you have no idea what your talking about.

Negative pressure to keep the co2 and now the smell in hey? Ya okay. Show us all some pics of this room that defies all logic and common sense. Show us how you create a space-like vacuum in your space but by some miracle you don't suck in o2 from the outside room(s), or expel the co2 already in the room. Shit man just show me pictures of how you hermetically sealed it tighter than a nuns twat and tell us about fan that you use that doesn't cavitate from running in an environment full tilt with no intake...

Should I give you some time to go find some pics to steal of someone else's grow? Good luck because no one is stupid enough to set up a room like that. It doesn't work. Maybe I should add in a few more spelling mistakes so that you have chance to deflect the questions again... Come on prove me wrong.

 

[mr4tune]

man I very much appreciate you taking time From your life typing And explaining your advice to me. Seriously

so anyways, I was thinking the same, start with HPS, keep it simple, something I can handle.. soak up as much information I possibly can and then learn from my mistakes. Also I went and purchased these tonight.. thought it was a pretty decent deal. ($200). 2 are brand new in the box and 2 are lightly used.. I’m leaning towards 4x 600 HPS lights even tho the guy threw in 4x 1000 watt EYE Hortilux bulbs( I’ve seen these are very expensive bulbs). I’ll probably put those up for storage and possibly use them later and buy 4x 600 watt bulbs. I still need 4x ballasts now. Any advice on which ones I should look for ?

Be careful when using used bulbs if you ever do... I don't like the idea of it unless you know the guy personally. Even then I'd rather buy new unless you get in some sort of bind and need a quick fix.

If your okay with packing the room full of plants then yeah go with the x4 600's dude. Your temps will be better and you'll get 600's allot closer to the canopy than you could with the 1ks.

As for ballasts, your in the USA so that gear is allot cheaper for you than it is for me. I started out with cheap chinese no-name ballasts but got away from them after having one of em fuck up an melt all the wiring inside. I've been out of the Single Ended HPS/MH game for awhile so Idk what the hot ticket is nowadays.

 

[bk78]

Smell smell smell you tool

The only tool I can see in this thread has been you.