rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
i thought she was giving out handies behind the 7-11 for free coffee. i was way off.
Attention all Bernie Sanders supporters
- Thread starter Sandernista
- Start date
those that know when to PIVOT..people like..oh i don't know- john boehner..spearheading American Cannabis Summit?
https://americascashcrop.com/adv1.php?iris=1081467&src=google&gclid=Cj0KCQiAsdHhBRCwARIsAAhRhsnQMaOfrl1KPswl53r9UHL6-GCgmTZqzHUIkiI766LJsB5rJz6anb4aAviDEALw_wcB
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Actually, shoring up the ACA is probably the most likely of Clinton's policies to be implemented in the next two years because not only Clinton but the vast majority of voters and legislators in this country see this as necessary. Also shoring up the ACA is possible in today's federal legislature while universal medicare or other good policies that would implement universal healthcare are not.
NWO4LIFE
Active Member
NOW? lmfao You better get with mainstream democrats while you still have just one account!
Sandernista
Well-Known Member
John Boehner is doing it for free?those that know when to PIVOT..people like..oh i don't know- john boehner..spearheading American Cannabis Summit?
https://americascashcrop.com/adv1.php?iris=1081467&src=google&gclid=Cj0KCQiAsdHhBRCwARIsAAhRhsnQMaOfrl1KPswl53r9UHL6-GCgmTZqzHUIkiI766LJsB5rJz6anb4aAviDEALw_wcB
londonfog
Well-Known Member
Why do you and @schuylaar share so much in common. Even to the point of neither having custody of their daughter.
Freaky scary ….or is it
the fact that he's even doing it, is the point.
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Sandernista
Well-Known Member
So he's never been motivated by money?
Want to see a video of him where he admits passing out checks from lobbyists to members in the house.
While a vote on legislation favoring said lobbyists was happening,
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
it's like Ace Ventura: Einhorn is Finkle, Finkle is Einhorn.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
If you think that's Clinton's idea alone you are badly misinformed. That's been a foundational plan in the Left's platform for longer than it's been enacted.
Don't give Clinton credit where it isn't due; that's a Sanders idea.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Wow man- this is the best you can manage?
And you wonder why I have no respect for you.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Wait a minute. Revisionist history.
Sanders is all about the medicare for all or universal healthcare as he was in 2016 and will be until he either dies, retires or it actually happens sometime next decade maybe. It was Clinton's platform to protect and expand the ACA. She was heavily criticized by Sanders supporters in early 2016 for saying universal healthcare "won't happen".
A debate in January, 2016, Sanders ripped Clinton a new asshole because she was talking about protecting and expanding the ACA while Sanders talked about how Democrats are failures because they didn't implement universal healthcare in the early part of this decade. The ACA is a very popular program in the US and I think it's reasonable to expect that sometime this or next year we will see legislation that will repair Republican damage done in the past few years. I can pull up a link and point you to the time in the debate where that happened if you like.
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OPfarmer
Well-Known Member
Hey, I would rather have a universal health Care.
BUT... I will give Hillary credit for at least trying a little bit.!
ACA is way way way better than nothing at all.!!
I am a cancer patient, that's a self employed farmer, just above the poverty line, most of the time. You can fill a room with my medical records. ACA literally has saved my life! Obama care has been not bad in my state.
Though.... I would much rather not have health insurance tied to employment income. It really sucks having to switch insurance plans while in the middle of cancer treatment.
So I am very pro universal health care, like they have in Scandinavian countries.
(Yet again, another reason I supported Bernie over Hillary)
BUT... I will give Hillary credit for at least trying a little bit.!
ACA is way way way better than nothing at all.!!
I am a cancer patient, that's a self employed farmer, just above the poverty line, most of the time. You can fill a room with my medical records. ACA literally has saved my life! Obama care has been not bad in my state.
Though.... I would much rather not have health insurance tied to employment income. It really sucks having to switch insurance plans while in the middle of cancer treatment.
So I am very pro universal health care, like they have in Scandinavian countries.
(Yet again, another reason I supported Bernie over Hillary)
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Sure and when you are in complete control of everything then you can make the health care system whatever you like. If you try to do the same in a democracy, where most people resist rapid change then all you'll get is push back. I've always thought of the ACA as a bridge to that system and Democratic leadership have said the same. The initial resistance to the ACA has switched to strong support for it. The strategy is working.
There is no way that Bernie could have gotten passage of a universal health care system with the Republican Congress that convened in 2017. Is that what you thought he could do?
If we are voicing what we want, as opposed to what is possible, I personally like what the Netherlands has implemented. Its single payer system at it's core is based on small clinics located in every neighborhood so that people know and are familiar with the providers who work there and vice-versa. Health care providers keep track of and go to homes of people who are unable to come to the clinic. People only go to a larger facility when necessary. Nobody is directly billed for any of this.
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londonfog
Well-Known Member
STOP
Do you really think I give two farts about if you/it has respect for me ? It was determined long ago you and I are not on the same level.
I merely ask why do you and @schuylaar share so much in damn common ? The list is scary when you break it down. ANy Woot
back on topic.
Bernie will never be POTUS, but I would vote for him if he made it to the general election...I also play the lottery sometimes when the numbers get ridiculously huge
OPfarmer
Well-Known Member
Ya, I got brainwashed back in the 80s and 90s. I worked for a Finnish medical company, spent lots of time there. Compared income and standard of living notes with my Finnish peers.
I am a hopeless fiscally conservative/socially liberal Democratic Socialist....LOL..
So the way I see it:::
Is that every first world nation on earth BESIDES the USA has universal health care! Heck most second and third world nation's do to.
I consider the "push back" against the status quo of mainstream politicians in the USA and abroad is because change for the working ggclass is not moving quick enough.
The status quo is not working out for most of us, since Regan's trickle down economics!
Top 1% of Americans have more wealth than the bottom 90%. Google the charts it's alarming.
Obama has a mixed report card. At least his "hope" campaign was inspirational.
Maybe, not everyone is happy with the status quo. Hillary was the status quo, Pelosi, Warren are the status quo.
Bernie was not the status quo (note has been past tense)
Alexandria is NOT the status quo. She is being attacked for "radical thinking". Like taxing those that got rich on polluting the environment.
As she eliqintly stated, the idea of taxing the wealthy is not new idea, it is how it was before Regan.
The run away wealth and income gap will destroy the USA and the rest of the first world must be stopped.
Democrates best find a insperational canidate to run in 2020.. some one "Radical".
Trump won with "drain the swamp"
If one does not want Trump to win again, it's best to retire, Hillary, Bernie, Warren, Biden and the rest of the status quo. They put people to sleep and staying home instead of voting.
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Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Yes, yes, we've heard this before. People in the US voted for Trump because Democrats weren't liberal enough. Yet, where is evidence of a wellspring of extreme left liberals? It doesn't show up in the only polls that matter, the electoral polls.
I don't disagree with the destination you describe. I don't even disagree with many of Bernie's or Cortez's policy statements. I simply disagree that most areas in the country show through their voting records that they are ready to support it. For good reason too.
So, let's talk about Bernie's health care bill that he put forth in the summer of 2017 and much ballyhoo'ed by his supporters. I took a look at that bill. It simply said that everybody would get healthcare paid for by the government and no insurance companies would participate. There was no plan for how to roll it out, there was no cost analysis, and there were no details for how it would be paid for or who would pay for it. Given that I support the policy of universal healthcare and other liberal policies I was embarrassed by the paltry effort behind Bernie's bill. It turned out to be a waste of time given that Republican-controlled government would never allow the bill to proceed so no matter. The lack of effort at detail and planning in that bill is why that bill was most often used against Democrats contesting in red or purple districts rather than a help.
Also used against Democrats was Bernie left zero provision for people who liked their current healthcare plan and didn't want to be forced into a Medicaid type of system. There are 60 million Americans who say this. So, Bernie's bill not only failed to provide important details like a price tag but also angered 10's of millions of voters who felt they were being forced out of a plan they liked with no details given regarding the plan that was being forced upon them.
What did help Democrats get elected in red and purple districts was support for Democrats who were stepping up to prevent Republicans repealing the the ACA.
So, yes, blue sky type thinking is great and all that. It's just that leaping from a thought experiment into action that reshapes the healthcare system and funding for an industry that represents 25% of our economy should be given more thought than Sanders or any of his followers, including Ocasio-Cortez, have given it.
You can talk about the end game all you like. I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about how to get there.
Oh, and Obama was a fine president.
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OPfarmer
Well-Known Member
FOGDOG,
I kinda hear what you are saying. I don't have the answer. Wished I did.
Me I am a dreamer, a romantic, an idealist, an optimist and yes, I am sheltered, I live in a very rural very "blue" county, in a blue state where we had record primary turnouts that BERNIE won by something close to 90% of the vote. Virtually no one but rich retired people supported Hillary.
"Oh, and Obama was a fine president."
He was not bad by today's standards.
Far from perfect, corporate Wall Street had him by the balls too though.
As an organic farmer, I can't fogive him for putting a retired Monsanto exective in charge of the FDA group overseeing Monsanto. grrrr! He was not friendly to small farms. He also did no tax favors to those with children ,but dual income right at the poverty line. He screwed those people over, choosing to give more to lazy bums that don't work, and taking it from those right above the poverty line.
But still, he was the best president since the peanut farmer.
Plus I would vote for Michelle if she ran.
I kinda hear what you are saying. I don't have the answer. Wished I did.
Me I am a dreamer, a romantic, an idealist, an optimist and yes, I am sheltered, I live in a very rural very "blue" county, in a blue state where we had record primary turnouts that BERNIE won by something close to 90% of the vote. Virtually no one but rich retired people supported Hillary.
"Oh, and Obama was a fine president."
He was not bad by today's standards.
Far from perfect, corporate Wall Street had him by the balls too though.
As an organic farmer, I can't fogive him for putting a retired Monsanto exective in charge of the FDA group overseeing Monsanto. grrrr! He was not friendly to small farms. He also did no tax favors to those with children ,but dual income right at the poverty line. He screwed those people over, choosing to give more to lazy bums that don't work, and taking it from those right above the poverty line.
But still, he was the best president since the peanut farmer.
Plus I would vote for Michelle if she ran.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Ok, so, then would you have preferred to have McCain/Palin and the GOP manage the economy through the worst depression since the Great Depression?
This is my point. The choice isn't single sided. "I don't like this one act by Obama so Obama is bad." What were your alternatives? The choice was Obama or McCain with his party calling the shots.
Same with healthcare. The ACA only came about because Blue Dog Democrats of 2010 could agree to it but no more. And so it passed without any Republican support and you got the necessary healthcare you needed when you got sick. Holding out for more would have meant nothing was passed. No ACA, none of the benefits of subsidizing healthcare for those who can't afford it, people with pre-existing conditions cannot get coverage and eventually, you in a very harsh financial bind due to medical bills.
Do you really think that McCain would have been the better leader when the going was tough and unemployment was skyrocketing? Would you have preferred Romney in 2014?
But this isn't about Obama. It's about how Bernie hasn't done a damn thing as Senator other than getting a few solar water heaters installed on some govt buildings and renaming a post office. He talks a good game but because he doesn't work well with others he can't get any of his blue sky and poorly written bills passed. I merely use Obama, who got a lot done including the ACA while prez. as an example of what accomplishment looks like in today's reality. Bernie, who is an independent because he can't agree to compromise doesn't get shit done.
OPfarmer
Well-Known Member
FOGDOG..
I did say Obama was the best president since the Peanut farmer. Yup.
In retrospect, McCain would have not been that bad compared to Trump. He was pretty bipartisan. Heck McCain - Feingold campaign finance reform was good. Both men had the balls to stand up against the status quo!! A big deal. I respect that. (But voted for Obama)
Now this business that::::
"Bernie hasn't done a damn thing as Senator"
What??? Putting Benzoz on the spot and getting him to pay a close too a living wage of $15 an hour to 50,000 Amazon workers!!!!
That's huge, I bet soon we will have a $15 national minimum wage for hard working folks.
Huge huge huge. Yep Bernie did that. Like yesterday!
What has Hillary ever done for the low wage WORKER.?? Heck she walked away from ACA. Took Obama to get that done.
I can't think of a single thing she did for the working stiff.?
Bernie, has a long history of pushing the envelope on the status quo. Sure you win some and you loose some, but even the losses kick the can down the road of bettement of the little people.
I want what's best for the little people, not the billionaire owners and stock holders of global companies.
Too much compromise is not always a good. With the concentration of wealth at a global crisis level, we need strong brave leaders to stand up to the corporate pigs! Not suckle their teats!
Hence, I voted for Bernie, and didn't and still don't give a shit about Hillary.
I did say Obama was the best president since the Peanut farmer. Yup.
In retrospect, McCain would have not been that bad compared to Trump. He was pretty bipartisan. Heck McCain - Feingold campaign finance reform was good. Both men had the balls to stand up against the status quo!! A big deal. I respect that. (But voted for Obama)
Now this business that::::
"Bernie hasn't done a damn thing as Senator"
What??? Putting Benzoz on the spot and getting him to pay a close too a living wage of $15 an hour to 50,000 Amazon workers!!!!
That's huge, I bet soon we will have a $15 national minimum wage for hard working folks.
Huge huge huge. Yep Bernie did that. Like yesterday!
What has Hillary ever done for the low wage WORKER.?? Heck she walked away from ACA. Took Obama to get that done.
I can't think of a single thing she did for the working stiff.?
Bernie, has a long history of pushing the envelope on the status quo. Sure you win some and you loose some, but even the losses kick the can down the road of bettement of the little people.
I want what's best for the little people, not the billionaire owners and stock holders of global companies.
Too much compromise is not always a good. With the concentration of wealth at a global crisis level, we need strong brave leaders to stand up to the corporate pigs! Not suckle their teats!
Hence, I voted for Bernie, and didn't and still don't give a shit about Hillary.