Different effects between LED, HPS, CFL, CMH, COBS and Metal halide

[LowOriginz]

So im upgrading my setup for my next grow as i now have the funds to do so. I used a 600w HPS light but i want to know if there is any difference between these for flowering; do some help produce bigger yields and denser nugs? what are the main differences.

 

[friedguy]

IMO, light used should depend on grow style.

MH/HPS are mostly used on tall or untrained plants. MH generally have more UVB, which increases trichome production. They are bluer in general, which stimulates bushier, shorter growth. HPS usually have more IR, which can create an emerson effect. The increased red spectrum in the HPS also stimulates flowering. Both are full spectrum lights.

LED are generally used for shorter or trained plants or for side lighting. They usually don't include much infrared and no UVB. You can make any spectrum you want by

To me, LEDs have replaced CFLs.

I'll be scrogging this time around, so I'll be using LED.

 

[gwheels]

I like CMH and COBS and Quantums. The rest pale by comparison. In longevity and cost over the duration of lifespan.

 

[LowOriginz]

IMO, light used should depend on grow style.

MH/HPS are mostly used on tall or untrained plants. MH generally have more UVB, which increases trichome production. They are bluer in general, which stimulates bushier, shorter growth. HPS usually have more IR, which can create an emerson effect. The increased red spectrum in the HPS also stimulates flowering. Both are full spectrum lights.

LED are generally used for shorter or trained plants or for side lighting. They usually don't include much infrared and no UVB. You can make any spectrum you want by

To me, LEDs have replaced CFLs.

I'll be scrogging this time around, so I'll be using LED.

right on. Yeh im looking to switch from CFL to LED during veg thats one of the reasons i created this post thankyou for the reply

 

[OldMedUser]

I'm a diehard HPS flowerer myself but there's a lot of variation in light quality between them too.

Your $30 street light will flower plants but not very well compared to a $100 Hortilux which has a lot more blue light in it along with lots of red and and other spectrums outside normal PAR parameters known to affect plant/bud development.

Super HPS is the standard all other lights try to emulate and other than those I'd go with CMH for the best of both worlds for veg and flower.

 

[LowOriginz]

I'm a diehard HPS flowerer myself but there's a lot of variation in light quality between them too.

Your $30 street light will flower plants but not very well compared to a $100 Hortilux which has a lot more blue light in it along with lots of red and and other spectrums outside normal PAR parameters known to affect plant/bud development.

Super HPS is the standard all other lights try to emulate and other than those I'd go with CMH for the best of both worlds for veg and flower.

right yeh im also a HPS user this is why im looking at the differences to see if there is any reason i should go for anything else during the budding stage

 

[LowOriginz]

I like CMH and COBS and Quantums. The rest pale by comparison. In longevity and cost over the duration of lifespan.

i literally completely forgot about these lol i heard COBS are really good

 

[NanoGadget]

So im upgrading my setup for my next grow as i now have the funds to do so. I used a 600w HPS light but i want to know if there is any difference between these for flowering; do some help produce bigger yields and denser nugs? what are the main differences.

All can be great options. Here is a question, how was heat management in your space with the HPS? Where you having to work to get your temps down? Where they just right? If your temps were perfect with HPS you may find them a bit below optimal with QB style LED. If you struggled to keep them down it mau be the better option. I know people who LOVE their HPS when it get cold out for the bit of extra heat they provide.

 

[LowOriginz]

All can be great options. Here is a question, how was heat management in your space with the HPS? Where you having to work to get your temps down? Where they just right? If your temps were perfect with HPS you may find them a bit below optimal with QB style LED. If you struggled to keep them down it mau be the better option. I know people who LOVE their HPS when it get cold out for the bit of extra heat they provide.

GREAT QUESTION im in a 80cmx80cmx160cm and boy did that HPS warm up the place but i do have proper ventialtion so i kept it to 27 degrees celcius but before i hat the ventilation was a huge problem

 

[NanoGadget]

GREAT QUESTION im in a 80cmx80cmx160cm and boy did that HPS warm up the place but i do have proper ventialtion so i kept it to 27 degrees celcius but before i hat the ventilation was a huge problem

I have had a lot less issues with heat since i switched to Quantum Board LED. If you wire your drivers up so they are outside of your grow space you can really reduce the amount of heat you need to vent because they dont produce infrared radiation the way HPS do. A lot of the heat that QB produce comes from the drivers so mounting them outside makes them great for people who have heat issues.

 

[OldMedUser]

right yeh im also a HPS user this is why im looking at the differences to see if there is any reason i should go for anything else during the budding stage

I switched the other day to a 1000W - 7200K MH to try it out as a finishing bulb but was running a 940W Hortilux conversion bulb up 'til then. I have 400W HPS ballasts as well but needed the 1000 for this crop. That 940 was $170 and I've seen them for almost $300 but now have a MH/HPS 1000W ballast so can replace it with the much cheaper regular 1000W Hortilux Super HPS bulbs that go for around $100.

All my ballasts are magnetics as well and some are 40 years or so old. Wonder how many digital ballasts even go 10 years. Not the cheap ones a lot of guys buy off Amazon I bet.

Good LEDs are still way too pricey for me to think about switching and in my cool basement I need the extra heat I get from HID lights tho I wish power was a lot cheaper than it is here. Almost $90/mth to run a 1000W light 12 hours a day.

 

[LowOriginz]

I have had a lot less issues with heat since i switched to Quantum Board LED. If you wire your drivers up so they are outside of your grow space you can really reduce the amount of heat you need to vent because they dont produce infrared radiation the way HPS do. A lot of the heat that QB produce comes from the drivers so mounting them outside makes them great for people who have heat issues.

Yeh thats something i should have looked into. If i would of known i definitely would of switched. i might not have had to buy the venting but its better now that i got it cause now i dont have to worry about any heat issues

I switched the other day to a 1000W - 7200K MH to try it out as a finishing bulb but was running a 940W Hortilux conversion bulb up 'til then. I have 400W HPS ballasts as well but needed the 1000 for this crop. That 940 was $170 and I've seen them for almost $300 but now have a MH/HPS 1000W ballast so can replace it with the much cheaper regular 1000W Hortilux Super HPS bulbs that go for around $100.

All my ballasts are magnetics as well and some are 40 years or so old. Wonder how many digital ballasts even go 10 years. Not the cheap ones a lot of guys buy off Amazon I bet.

Good LEDs are still way too pricey for me to think about switching and in my cool basement I need the extra heat I get from HID lights tho I wish power was a lot cheaper than it is here. Almost $90/mth to run a 1000W light 12 hours a day.

let me know how that works out for you compared to the HPS and damn 40 years old thats more than twice my age lmaoooo and even my 600w HPs chews up electricity

 

[Kushash]

I switched the other day to a 1000W - 7200K MH to try it out as a finishing bulb but was running a 940W Hortilux conversion bulb up 'til then. I have 400W HPS ballasts as well but needed the 1000 for this crop. That 940 was $170 and I've seen them for almost $300 but now have a MH/HPS 1000W ballast so can replace it with the much cheaper regular 1000W Hortilux Super HPS bulbs that go for around $100.

All my ballasts are magnetics as well and some are 40 years or so old. Wonder how many digital ballasts even go 10 years. Not the cheap ones a lot of guys buy off Amazon I bet.

Good LEDs are still way too pricey for me to think about switching and in my cool basement I need the extra heat I get from HID lights tho I wish power was a lot cheaper than it is here. Almost $90/mth to run a 1000W light 12 hours a day.

Try Walmart online if you can have items shipped.
One 1000w hortilux super hps is $68 or 8 for $440.
I purchased (6) 600w super hps for $253 with free shipping from them.

 

[cogitech]

I have had a lot less issues with heat since i switched to Quantum Board LED. If you wire your drivers up so they are outside of your grow space you can really reduce the amount of heat you need to vent because they dont produce infrared radiation the way HPS do. A lot of the heat that QB produce comes from the drivers so mounting them outside makes them great for people who have heat issues.

A high quality driver is typically around 92-95% efficient. So a high quality 200w driver is only producing between 10 and 16 watts of heat - the rest of the energy is going right into the COBs or QBs.

With these facts in mind, it seems a bit of an exaggeration to say "a lot" of the heat from these systems comes from the drivers. Unless one considers 5-8% as "a lot".

 

[NanoGadget]

A high quality driver is typically around 92-95% efficient. So a high quality 200w driver is only producing between 10 and 16 watts of heat - the rest of the energy is going right into the COBs or QBs.

With these facts in mind, it seems a bit of an exaggeration to say "a lot" of the heat from these systems comes from the drivers. Unless one considers 5-8% as "a lot".

I just ran a HLG QB seed to harvest. I can tell you this without question, running the light wide open i could touch a diode 6 hours after lights and not worry about it. The driver, on the other hand, got hot enough to cause discomfort. When i moved the driver from the top of the slate to outside of my space my temps went down a couple degrees Fahrenheit.

 

[Lucky Luke]

A high quality driver is typically around 92-95% efficient. So a high quality 200w driver is only producing between 10 and 16 watts of heat - the rest of the energy is going right into the COBs or QBs.

With these facts in mind, it seems a bit of an exaggeration to say "a lot" of the heat from these systems comes from the drivers. Unless one considers 5-8% as "a lot".

A Watt of light produces a Watt of heat.

"One of the basic laws of physics is the law of the Conservation of Energy. This simply states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be transferred from one form to another. So when a 100watt lamp is switched on, 100 watts of electrical energy is converted to 100watts of light and heat; a 50watt lamp produces a total 50 watts of light and heat, and so on.* However, some lamps are more efficient at producing light than others; this determines how much of that 100 watts is transformed into light, and how much is "wasted" and comes out as heat (very useful, though, if what we want is a basking lamp). "
http://www.reptileuvinfo.com/html/watts-heat-lights-lamp-heat-output.html

 

[cogitech]

I understand that, Luke. What I am saying is that a high quality driver should only be producing 5-8% of the total heat watts of the system. The rest of the power is delivered to the COBs/QBs/strips.

I don't see how locating the driver(s) outside the enclosure can have such a dramatic effect on the enclosure ambient temperature. The COBs/QBs/strips get 92-95% of the total system power, which means they are producing far more heat watts than the driver(s) even if they are 60% efficient, as an optimistic example.

 

[cogitech]

I just ran a HLG QB seed to harvest. I can tell you this without question, running the light wide open i could touch a diode 6 hours after lights and not worry about it. The driver, on the other hand, got hot enough to cause discomfort. When i moved the driver from the top of the slate to outside of my space my temps went down a couple degrees Fahrenheit.

I'm not trying to call you a liar, just trying to reconcile your experience with the math/physics.

Most drivers are passively cooled and the heat-generating components are inside a case. The case absorbs heat and radiates that heat. There are many factors involved in how hot that case will get. Case material, ambient temperature, location, etc. Comparing that to the heat of the diode is not a reliable method of determining which is producing more heat, since COBs/QBs/strips are designed to release the bulk of their heat watts through the backside, typically into a large heat sink.

 

[NanoGadget]

I'm not trying to call you a liar, just trying to reconcile your experience with the math/physics.

Most drivers are passively cooled and the heat-generating components are inside a case. The case absorbs heat and radiates that heat. There are many factors involved in how hot that case will get. Case material, ambient temperature, location, etc. Comparing that to the heat of the diode is not a reliable method of determining which is producing more heat, since COBs/QBs/strips are designed to release the bulk of their heat watts through the backside, typically into a large heat sink.

For sure there was some heat coming off the heatsink, but removing the driver from the top of the heatsink and mounting it externally definitely helped. It was only a couple degrees, but when I'm dialing in a space i like to have as much control over my environment as humanly possible.

 

[Lucky Luke]

I understand that, Luke. What I am saying is that a high quality driver should only be producing 5-8% of the total heat watts of the system. The rest of the power is delivered to the COBs/QBs/strips.

I don't see how locating the driver(s) outside the enclosure can have such a dramatic effect on the enclosure ambient temperature. The COBs/QBs/strips get 92-95% of the total system power, which means they are producing far more heat watts than the driver(s) even if they are 60% efficient, as an optimistic example.

I guess it depends on the growers environment. In winter for me 8% extra heat is wanted. In spring and autumn its not noticeable and come summer Its a large, unwanted difference. For me it could mean the difference between 42C in the tent to over 45C
If someone is running AC then 8% extra heat wouldn't even be noticed.

But I do agree with Nano, I can touch my heatsink and its only just noticeably warm the drivers are were the main heat source is.