Soil mineralzation myths debunked

DonBrennon

DonBrennon

Well-Known Member
VTMi'kmaq said:
Isnt it funny though....once we expose them to said sarcasm how quickly they assimilate in most cases to the sarcastic dark side lol?
View attachment 3778168 All my family are navy except for the ww1 and ww2 era then my great grandpa flew in the air force over germany, his brother was attached to artillery there
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I went into the marines to piss off my fathers side of the family who wanted me on a subermarine in the navy im sure.....
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RESPECT!!!!!!!!!!
 
Alexander Supertramp

Alexander Supertramp

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
As an organic farmer, I can say this guy is exactly correct!
That point aside. I'll start here -
First off, we (most of us here) build our own soils from scratch - right? When we build, we usually add a SRP or a RP. Along with some of us adding garden gypsum - correct?
Many of us then reuse or recharge our soil after use. Say adding a bit of compost or some EWC and maybe even each in some ratio, along with normal nutrient fortification - right?

In the farm world we spread manure, maybe some other things are done organically to the soil in spring and fall for fields dedicated to Veggies of certain types over just spreading on grain fields.

The point is that all of these things we do - re-up (if you will) any mineral content lost in the growing season to the plants!

The only time we, as organic farmers, have to come in and actually apply any mineralization to a field. Is when the field has sat unused for farming for years and years, and you test it and adjust the soil to the things lacking in a specific way!....There is usually plenty to be done to bring such a field back to quality farming practice! To convert to organic is a 3 year process and involves plenty of soil testing!

Rotation of crops is not just for macro nutrient health either! Yet, any mineral depletion whether specific or broad spectrum,,,is rare!
I find myself worrying more about heavy metal build ups from in farm and outside source's.....Everything is closely monitored and controlled, right down to feed source's to not increase metal contents of the soil!

If you don't add compost or EWC when you recharge/reuse soils. You would be wise to consider adding a handful of SRP between about 1.25 and closer to 1.5 years of use to that soil. Personally. I can't see not using a compost or some EWC in there somewhere. I mean, come on now. The soil structure it's self is getting kinda weak by a year of use anyway.

NICE posting Rasta !!!!
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You should look into to planting Daikon radishes as a fall cover crop. They grow deep taps that break the hard pan and bring nutrients to the surface via tilling under in the spring. While improving drainage. Plus the are are very tasty when harvested before winter kill,
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Alexander Supertramp said:
You should look into to planting Daikon radishes as a fall cover crop. They grow deep taps that break the hard pan and bring nutrients to the surface via tilling under in the spring. While improving drainage. Plus the are are very tasty when harvested before winter kill,
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We actually do, in some fields! They are getting some good reception at market! They hold and travel well, so it makes a great trucking crop for the few area's we can get a late-late harvest out of. We try and rotate the area's we harvest yearly to take advantage of that "cover" value. Also, it's one of the first things put in older or long term unused fields being brought back to Ag. use.
(I leave the field across from the house. Brings in deer like you wouldn't believe! Best late season bow hunting ever!)
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
We actually do, in some fields! They are getting some good reception at market! They hold and travel well, so it makes a great trucking crop for the few area's we can get a late-late harvest out of. We try and rotate the area's we harvest yearly to take advantage of that "cover" value. Also, it's one of the first things put in older or long term unused fields being brought back to Ag. use.
(I leave the field across from the house. Brings in deer like you wouldn't believe! Best late season bow hunting ever!)
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You sound like a Michigander sir! I know a few people that leave fields like that to draw in the deer.
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
That would be correct! :bigjoint:
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You must have had a hell of a time this summer, seems like it didn't rain until last month. I didn't have any help from mother nature at all with watering my garden this year. I could only imagine having to deal with a farm!
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Rasta Roy said:
You must have had a hell of a time this summer, seems like it didn't rain until last month. I didn't have any help from mother nature at all with watering my garden this year. I could only imagine having to deal with a farm!
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It was tough on some things. Not so bad for others. Your tax money helped :mrgreen:, the FED supplied some nice irrigation programs the last few years in the form of low interest loans and grants for installing new irrigation systems. Grain fields got that first. Some cruciferous fields surrounding the muck farms got some last year and made this year a bumper year for broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, kale and collards in that area......Cabbage is about to be harvested. Celery is a bit longer yet and onions are being harvested and sitting to skin (harden) on a field by field basis. In fact, this mourning I'm going over to inspect the last onion fields and see how the late season cauliflower is developing (early spring and later mid summer planting for a 2 harvest season). I gotta see that everything is starting out ok at the dutch flat cabbage field as the pickers are beginning harvest there today. They move field to field....Gotta go and make sure the sched is lined out right with expected weather, and then start planning next weeks.
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
It was tough on some things. Not so bad for others. Your tax money helped :mrgreen:, the FED supplied some nice irrigation programs the last few years in the form of low interest loans and grants for installing new irrigation systems. Grain fields got that first. Some cruciferous fields surrounding the muck farms got some last year and made this year a bumper year for broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, kale and collards in that area......Cabbage is about to be harvested. Celery is a bit longer yet and onions are being harvested and sitting to skin (harden) on a field by field basis. In fact, this mourning I'm going over to inspect the last onion fields and see how the late season cauliflower is developing (early spring and later mid summer planting for a 2 harvest season). I gotta see that everything is starting out ok at the dutch flat cabbage field as the pickers are beginning harvest there today. They move field to field....Gotta go and make sure the sched is lined out right with expected weather, and then start planning next weeks.
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Glad to hear my tax dollars are being put to good use :)
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Rasta Roy said:
Glad to hear my tax dollars are being put to good use :)
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I'm proud that it's going to organic farming !!!!! VS. the fucking local dairy "super" farms that abuse the system and find all the loop holes as corporate farms do!

Hmm, that reminds me, I have a speaking engagement again with the surrounding FFA and 4H clubs. Getting kids interested in alternative farming and old school technique! PRICELESS!
 
a senile fungus

a senile fungus

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
It was tough on some things. Not so bad for others. Your tax money helped :mrgreen:, the FED supplied some nice irrigation programs the last few years in the form of low interest loans and grants for installing new irrigation systems. Grain fields got that first. Some cruciferous fields surrounding the muck farms got some last year and made this year a bumper year for broccoli, cabbage, cauliflower, kale and collards in that area......Cabbage is about to be harvested. Celery is a bit longer yet and onions are being harvested and sitting to skin (harden) on a field by field basis. In fact, this mourning I'm going over to inspect the last onion fields and see how the late season cauliflower is developing (early spring and later mid summer planting for a 2 harvest season). I gotta see that everything is starting out ok at the dutch flat cabbage field as the pickers are beginning harvest there today. They move field to field....Gotta go and make sure the sched is lined out right with expected weather, and then start planning next weeks.
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Our first cutting of hay wasn't great this year at all, too dry. But then the rains picked up and 2nd and 3rd came in real nice. I think our 3rd cutting this year is the best I've ever seen it in over a decade.

We've got some wild grapevines on the farm that gave some clusters too, unusual but I'll take it :-)

If you were closer I'd buy from whichever market you take your crops to. I enjoy supporting the local farmers in my area, the quality and taste difference is tangible.

Stay well Doc!
 
VTMi'kmaq

VTMi'kmaq

Well-Known Member
a senile fungus said:
Our first cutting of hay wasn't great this year at all, too dry. But then the rains picked up and 2nd and 3rd came in real nice. I think our 3rd cutting this year is the best I've ever seen it in over a decade.

We've got some wild grapevines on the farm that gave some clusters too, unusual but I'll take it :-)

If you were closer I'd buy from whichever market you take your crops to. I enjoy supporting the local farmers in my area, the quality and taste difference is tangible.

Stay well Doc!
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Normally we'd like to see the sweetcorn knee high by july, SHEIIIIIIT MAN, tell me the mich....to eastern maine arent feeling the full effects of weather patterns changing?
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
VTMi'kmaq said:
Normally we'd like to see the sweetcorn knee high by july, SHEIIIIIIT MAN, tell me the mich....to eastern maine arent feeling the full effects of weather patterns changing?
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We've definitely been feeling it! We had a freak late frost a few years ago that ruined my apple trees and everybody else's. Local cider was like eight bucks for a half gallon.

The following year a wicked ass ice storm left me without power for two weeks (during Christmas to boot). I lost a couple of my favorite strains in that mess.

Damn near drought conditions this year for most of spring and summer but we got some relief at the mid end of July and the rains been steady since.

We've always had crazy weather here but it does seem to be getting worse!
 
Rasta Roy

Rasta Roy

Well-Known Member
VTMi'kmaq said:
As a lifelong bowhunter i can tell you that baiting deer incenses me. But hey man if you need to bring them to you sorta speak whatever, i catch anyone baiting deer in my area they will be fed to the compost pile. Deer are sacred to my people. I find baiting to be tipping the scales our favor since they really cant avoid eating such wonderful veggies man. Thats def not organic lmao
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I don't think he's referring to baiting deer like you're referring to. Just leaving an empty field tends to draw them. But I could be wrong! Most bow hunters I know think baiting ruins the sport of it. I do know a couple of guys that have admitted to baiting. They're the same guys that never get any deer tho...so that tells you how well it's working out for them.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
VTMi'kmaq said:
As a lifelong bowhunter i can tell you that baiting deer incenses me. But hey man if you need to bring them to you sorta speak whatever, i catch anyone baiting deer in my area they will be fed to the compost pile. Deer are sacred to my people. I find baiting to be tipping the scales our favor since they really cant avoid eating such wonderful veggies man. Thats def not organic lmao
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The deer come to a field of cover crops not planted for the deer or for baiting!
It's simply a bonus I like to use to put natures meat in my freezer!
My sons never had a beef steak till they were 6&7 and the older one turned his nose and said "This tastes funny!" Hows that for tradition?
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
Whew. What a thread. You'd think minerals were toxic, expensive or just rare.

Mineral supplementation is good.
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I think the number one thing that people overlook, and it's reaaaaally simple

The Law of Return. Here is a good article.

http://thegreentimes.co.za/soil-the-law-of-return/

http://blackgold.bz/raised-beds-respecting-law-return/

and Liebig's law of the minimum.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebig's_law_of_the_minimum

Understanding those very VERY simple concepts, and we are golden.

As most of you know, I live in a redwood forest, the trees are MASSIVE, that takes a LOT of macros and micros to do that...
I can't recall the last time I saw somebody sprinkling nutrients on them.
BUT we also don't rake up EVERYTHING off the ground and throw it away either...

Remember, we do smoke the flowers... and most throw away the leaves...
all that is LOST, and the soil will reflect that over time.
 
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