Day 5 seedling dying for no reason

[Honey Oil Riot Squad]

Hello,
Having a very bad spur of luck with a new batch of seeds I got. I've popped seeds using this EXACT same method before with AT LEAST a 75 percent success rate every time so this is starting to really piss me off that I may have only gotten a 16-33% success after just spending all that money on seeds. I got 6 seeds, all diff strains, started out by popping just 4 thinking it would be nice n easy like before ( I only want 4 plants). All germed in coco just fine, and were at surface in 3 days. But alas, helmet head killed one, and I replanted the other as if I had just germed in a paper towel. That one has been back in soil for 4 days and STILL not back to the surface. Probly dead. So the first run seemed to have 50 percent success, and I went ahead and planted my other 2 backup seeds.

My backup seeds have been in the dirt for 3 days, and neither are to the surface yet which is concerning.

But what's even MORE concerning is that one of the 2 seeds that actually popped now seems to be dying on me!! WHAT THE FUUUUK. I don't get it. I feel like a complete newbie again. The cotyledons have begun shriveling up and dying (no color change) and the first set of leaves WERE growing but have stopped all of the sudden when the cotyledons started dying. This seedling is getting the exact same everything as my ONE remaining seedling that is perfectly healthy, not a thing wrong with it. It makes absolutely no sense to me that this other seedling is dying.

Any suggestions as to why???
Should I maybe give it more nutes at this point? I am sprouting them in coco, with a 1/10 nute solution (weak af). Should I be giving 1/4 nute solution to seedlings that have leaves out? Maybe that will help out the dying one?

Here is the seemingly dying one, Kandy Kush at day 5. You can see the one remaining cotyledon that has fallen over and has been dying in the last day


And here is the healthy one with exact same conditions



Other info: 4 inches or so from 4, 23 watt fluorescents.
Ventilation in back, very slight breeze going over
pH is at 5.8 for 80/20 coco/perlite
Day 5 from breaching surface
GH flora trio + cali magic
Temp is usually about 80 to 84 during day, about 70 to 75 at night
Humidity pretty steady these days around 50 to 60 percent

What's up with this? Any help is GREATLY appreciated. I was thinking maybe it needs more calcium/ magnesium right now bc it is in coco and I'm only currently feeding a ridiculously small amount. But maybe the problem is that there are nutes in there at all, I just do not know folks, I am completely stumped. What really throws me off the most is I have one completely healthy, perfect plant in all of this indicating this method is effective, but yet I am just getting hammered here. It sucks and I don't get it one bit.

 

[Chef420]

The only thing I can tell you is not to feed for the first two weeks. The seedlings have enough on their own to get them started. If you feed too early you could toast them.

 

[bigsteve]

I was having the same problem when it got so warm here. I finally got smart and did my paper towel thing and put the set-up in a cooler location. So, if you are using a heat mat to germ on I would think again as long as the temps are high.

Good luck, BigSteve.

 

[Honey Oil Riot Squad]

Using no heating pad, the lights seem to warm it to a good temp for germinating in there. And they all germ, the problem is that they seem to be quickly dying afterwards.

Coco is completely nutrient deficient, are you sure zero nutes is necessary? I've heard people say using a calcium supplement is a must when they are tiny like this, but I've also heard you should be using absolutely no nutes. So I go somewhere in between. Anybody use a calcium supplement right off the bat for their seedlings in coco? I don't know if I should be or not, and I'm curious to know if that could be my issue. I highly doubt it's the nutes that is actually killing them, but I suppose it could be. But the nute levels are so ridiculously low right now (not even half a mL of each in the trio and 0.5 ml calimagic per gallon). When they are grown I use almost 10x that much. All that I could conclude is that maybe this little kandy kush girl is wanting some nutrients (bc there arnt any in coco).

 

[Hydrotech364]

I feed @ day three of standing seedlings in coco.They just need it because of the lack of nutrients.I also watch them closely and have an ionizing spray bottle for stubborn bean hulls.Coco works best in my opinion.Just be ready for anything.They can handle the food.They need the food.Seeds are given enough energy to make a tap into the soil,not much more than this.Nutrient enriched soil would take over in a natural situation such as mix or soil but we simply dont find nutrients in fresh coco.

 

[Bose]

Using no heating pad, the lights seem to warm it to a good temp for germinating in there. And they all germ, the problem is that they seem to be quickly dying afterwards.

Coco is completely nutrient deficient, are you sure zero nutes is necessary? I've heard people say using a calcium supplement is a must when they are tiny like this, but I've also heard you should be using absolutely no nutes. So I go somewhere in between. Anybody use a calcium supplement right off the bat for their seedlings in coco? I don't know if I should be or not, and I'm curious to know if that could be my issue. I highly doubt it's the nutes that is actually killing them, but I suppose it could be. But the nute levels are so ridiculously low right now (not even half a mL of each in the trio and 0.5 ml calimagic per gallon). When they are grown I use almost 10x that much. All that I could conclude is that maybe this little kandy kush girl is wanting some nutrients (bc there arnt any in coco).

Yes wait two weeks at least till you feed. I run straight coco.

 

[backtracker]

Could be a bad bacteria/pathogen in the soil you could try neem oil, or a product called Cease or go here to find one they're on page two http://www.bioworksinc.com/in-the-news/nmpro_8-08.pdf

 

[jonnyquest]

Could be a bad bacteria/pathogen in the soil you could try neem oil, or a product called Cease or go here to find one they're on page two http://www.bioworksinc.com/in-the-news/nmpro_8-08.pdf

Pretty big jump you've made there, and also he said they're in coco.

are you sure your keeping the medium moist enough?

 

[1978]

try misting with superthrive, its safe for seedlings, and fresh cuttings too. Its saved a plant or 2 back in the day.

 

[backtracker]

Pretty big jump you've made there, and also he said they're in coco.

are you sure your keeping the medium moist enough?

What's cool about a forum is someone ask a question and they get different ideas so that way they can see which one fits their problem we are all just guessing.

 

[Morriston55]

Only thing that stood out with all that information to me was the lights are only 4" away, especially since you sound like you have 4 all running. I only use 1 23w for a while in coco

 

[dazzyballz]

You lightly feed after a few days in coco/hydro.ive had the same problem,you dont need to feed for a few week in soil but hydros different and holds no nutrient at all,i transplantrd mine into bat-soil problem solved in a day they had new growth think its lack o micro nutes.the old growth stayed small and yellow/light green never recoverd.dont let them dry out atall in coco keep it like a wet sponge.only my opinion tho dude

The only thing I can tell you is not to feed for the first two weeks. The seedlings have enough on their own to get them started. If you feed too early you could toast them.

 

[Honey Oil Riot Squad]

UPDATE:
So now I have a couple possible issues... ugghh. Frustrating start to this grow.

I am not sure if the problem is from nutes, or from a new issue I may have just discovered.

I think I am going to feed and see if that helps the kandy kush seedling that is dying. The cotyledons are gone now, and there has been no growth since.

BUT I had a couple other seedlings die right after germination, and today I cracked open one of the seed hulls of a strain that didn't make it to find none other than a nice fungus gnat larvae eating it out from the inside...

FUUUUUCK.

SO I did some more investigating of the two initial strains I planted that never ended up making it to the surface successfully. To my amazement I only found ONE larvae in both cups of coco digging around very carefully after dumping on a paper plate. So I'm worried there could be an infestation, but an incredibly minor one at that atm at least.

I'm thinking maybe there is a larvae or two in the seedling that's not doing so well above... and maybe, just maybe THAT is what's killing it. But again, I have NO clue. Seeing as I only found one larvae and I see no flies... this infestation is hopefully incredibly minor. Maybe that was the only one and this is not an issue at all for the others, but regardless, I don't know what to do.

I hear a common treatment for fungus gnat larvae is just a 1:3 ratio of hydrogen peroxide: water, but I am afraid this will kill my plant, and I also want to get them nuts now at the same time. I'm clueless what I should do at this point. More nutes or treat my tiny little seedlings for gnat larvae. HELP?

 

[dazzyballz]

Agghh theres Nothing worse than pests or mould.That is Mental what seed co.is it so i can avoid them Mate.
i didnt know the gnats could get in the seed never mind eat it from inside out,makes sense tho. as they eat healthy white roots and have to comefrom somewere.
nightmare.must be from the mother plant!!!
As you say the hydrogen peroxide soloution works also dont water as often dry your soil a bit(dunno if you wanna dry it in coco tho) dont keep top inch of your medium wet thats were they love to multiply.
The larvae have caused me the odd problem but i didnt realise until end of flower all the root tips were gone the plants had looked sickly for a while.
They cause all sorts of problems cant believe it was in your seeds though.
Get the peroxide out.good luck

 

[Honey Oil Riot Squad]

Agghh theres Nothing worse than pests or mould.That is Mental what seed co.is it so i can avoid them Mate.
i didnt know the gnats could get in the seed never mind eat it from inside out,makes sense tho. as they eat healthy white roots and have to comefrom somewere.
nightmare.must be from the mother plant!!!
As you say the hydrogen peroxide soloution works also dont water as often dry your soil a bit(dunno if you wanna dry it in coco tho) dont keep top inch of your medium wet thats were they love to multiply.
The larvae have caused me the odd problem but i didnt realise until end of flower all the root tips were gone the plants had looked sickly for a while.
They cause all sorts of problems cant believe it was in your seeds though.
Get the peroxide out.good luck

You've been incredibly helpful dazzyballs and I greatly appreciate it. Thank you.

From the research I've done it sounds like the only time the larvae are a big problem (as in they will actually kill your plant) is when they are seedlings. They can sicken your plants as adults if the infestation gets big enough, but they will only manage to kill your plants as seedlings.

I've seen a couple other forums that describe the exact same thing, where people actually find larvae eating their seed from the inside out. I don't think it came from the seed company (this was actually from a well known seed bank, Greenhouse Seeds). I HAD flies when I first planted the seeds, but they were without a doubt FRUIT FLIES that came from my messy AF bedroom (I cleaned it now, no more flies in sight). I was checking out all kinds of those flies and every one I found was a fruit fly, but it appears somehow there might have been some fungus gnats in the mix that I never saw. Damned things. I know the seed that I found the one larvae in had germed and cracked a little from the tap root, and I'm guessing this is when the larvae crawled up in there.

And it was literally only ONE. ONE FUCKING TINY ASS WORM KILLED MY ENTIRE PLANT.
What did I do to that larvae? I stuck it on a petri dish, and proceeded to torture it with a drop of many different liquids that I'm sure it hated (ecig juice, cleaning supplies, toilet bowl cleaner, and then I followed it up with hydrogen peroxide). I got much satisfaction from this torture game.

Unfortunately this is probably the last day for my kandy kush seedling that seemed to be dying for no reason. It was very wilted this morning . I think I'm gonna attempt to treat it but I highly doubt it's gonna make it. I will disect that as well and let you know if it was indeed the larvae killing it.


As for these other plants... I have 3 remaining (from six seeds) that seem to be doing perfectly fine. No evidence what so ever of larvae eating at them, including one that was planTed at the same time as the kandy kush (dying one). If there is no evidence of them dying at this point, should I still treat them? Or should I carry on and assume the only plants that had eggs layed in them are the ones that died off? Bc these remaining pLants are 100% healthy. Plus one that popped the surface today has 3 cotyledons! Never seen that before! Mutant bonus!

 

[dazzyballz]

No probz dude.
Ha ha yea torture the little bastards, i like it...
when i had the gnats i lifted my plants out of the pots and you could see the larvae in the soil,eating the roots there was no nice white hairs just sparce grassy root, this was a full infestation i think it affected the yield but the smoke was spot on ,same as you aswel there was that many types of bug flying round the room i didnt knw what was happening,
i was using fly spray and allsorts else from pound shop back then lol.i think it was the cheap soil i used to buy once under a nice warm lamp would hatch all sorts i had a caterpillar in a bag once.
i always use plagron soil now never spotted a gnat yet.
if they look healthy Id just leave em mate and see how they go for next few week hopefully theres is just that odd 1,(to torture)ive never heard of em being in the seeds tho.
But at least you know there around if things start to look unhealthy.
i Think you can get predators ti sprinkle on plants now,that would be fun to watch.
Good luck me old china....love it when i get a mutant plant i had 3 plants in 1 seed a few year ago.triplets.lmao

 

[kratos015]

The seeds could have just been bad. Were they tiny little white bugs that were almost see through? I had that exact thing happen, but that's because the seeds had died long before and those bugs were simply decomposing them. The seeds were probably just duds and died, those bugs you saw were decomposing. Assuming organic of course.

 

[Flowki]

And it was literally only ONE. ONE FUCKING TINY ASS WORM KILLED MY ENTIRE PLANT.
What did I do to that larvae? I stuck it on a petri dish, and proceeded to torture it with a drop of many different liquids that I'm sure it hated (ecig juice, cleaning supplies, toilet bowl cleaner, and then I followed it up with hydrogen peroxide). I got much satisfaction from this torture game.

Hah, I bet your mail man is always on time?.